How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

Ubbquittious

Got a fill of LPG for 84c/l today ☺️ wonder how long that will last

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747138#Comment_118747138

Yea I know. We all gotta knuckle down and take our punishment for being alive at this time. I'm having a look on donedeal at the minute for a nice foal before there's a shortage of those as well and going through my collection of scrap out the back to see if I can repurpose an old back axle to make a horse drawn cart.

Larbre34

You do you bud.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746510#Comment_118746510

Definitely the Sunday/weekend drives will be much rarer for me. Walking and public transport more for local spins. Lot of the spontaneous hopping in the car and going for a spin will be out.

Indestructable

Petrol stations will surely go pre pay only soon. Drive offs will increase with a greater loss now.

NBar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747646#Comment_118747646

They might employ staff to patrol the forecourts now instead of making sandwiches

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747646#Comment_118747646

Drive off's always get referred to Gardai who have little trouble finding people and getting payment.

I had a call to my door back in 2010/2011. I drove off after going in to pay, grabbing some snacks, paying for those, but forgetting to pay for the fuel and headed home. Had a knock on the door 2 days later, felt like a right twat when I realized lol

NBar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747716#Comment_118747716

Honest people who genuinely forget get the knock on the door but others who intend to steal fuel drive cars etc that are not registered to them or use false reg plates. Guards shouldn't be used to collect fuel money, instead retailers should be more vigilant and employ a forecourt attendant like years ago

copeyhagen

cost of the juice is sickening, wife has a 2018 1 litre civic and its gonna sit gathering dust now.

costs about 3.50 to fill the tesla model 3.

as long as you have a home charger the average person verry very rarely needs to use on street charging (ive used it a handful of times in 3 years)

BoatMad

just negotiated this years electric contract night rate at 9 cents a unit , that fills the EV for €2.50, nice , what's this " diesel " I hear you all talking about , Ive had an EV for 5 years now !!

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747758#Comment_118747758

Who are you with?

Nsonowa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747756#Comment_118747756

Raging I don't have a plug at my parking spot

Larbre34

Which is all fine until the electricity generated by gas and oil is restricted to essential services and industries only.

Vroom, vroom.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747654#Comment_118747654

But sure sandwiches is where they make their money. Lads have no issue paying 6 quid for a poxy chicken roll. Mad stuff.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747184#Comment_118747184

Can I ask about lpg? What mileage do you get on it?

The reason I ask is because my father picked up a new car last week. They only had a bi fuel available petrol / lpg but he never used lpg before.

Pussyhands

All this talk of "wartime economy", how it's just how it is and to get on with it.

Lads commuting to work are the least of the problems.

I'm not sure people realise just exactly how much these rapid price rises are going to affect us. If this Ukraine thing goes on and keeps getting worse we are rightly fecked.

For example:

Fertiliser has more than doubled in the past year. Farmers are already squeezed. It just won't sense for farmers to spend so much on fertiliser on top of all the increase expense on diesel. This means they'll not plant crops, won't replace their cattle. The spuds sitting in the supermarket now? Well farmers are already getting damn all on them at the best of times. Now they have to spend multiples on diesel and fertiliser? All you'd be doing is multiplying your losses.

There's a major contractor near me who has said that fuel will be hard get in the next few weeks. He's been speaking to farmers all around and he's decided to start growing his own produce this year. He bought 2 big freezers and left them in the shed and is going to fill them all up.

Have a look at the biggest exports of wheat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_exports

Russia is the biggest exporter. Ukraine is number 5. How are you going to make bread without wheat?

If all this comes to pass, then the country will come to a standstill.

Larbre34

It won't come to a standstill.

The EU commission is working on a self sufficiency plan to begin growing cereal crops at member State level, that normally it is cheaper to import. They will be subsidised.

The Dept of Agriculture and Teagasc have about 6 weeks to work with the farming representative groups to get such crops planted on what is currently pasture, in time for a good harvest this summer, and we have plenty of capacity to up productivity of each hectare of land we do have. The same is going on all over the EU and in other western countries.

In any case, we can survive very comfortably without a range of 35 Super Valu fresh baked sourdough and pumpernickel breads and if we need to pare back to basics on some fronts, well so be it. We still have the best meat, dairy and eggs in the World on this island, not to mention oats, maize and barley, which can be used more flexibly than they are now.

I'm old enough to remember when there was three types of crap German wine in the supermarket, when bread came as white, or brown and when butchers shops cut down carcasses in front of your Ma and not an inch was wasted.

Yes, luxuries of a certain sorts will disappear for a while in favour of the production of necessities, but all things being equal nobody will starve, we may just have to lead simpler lives for a bit. Maybe that's not such a terrible thing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748886#Comment_118748886

When did agri contractors become experts on the global fuel trade? He should go into futures if he's able to predict with certainty

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749234#Comment_118749234

If there's no fuel, that affects everything.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748936#Comment_118748936

Farming is already subsidised in the EU and it's still not feasible. They can't force farmers to grow crops and the average farmer can't grow them anyways.

downburst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748936#Comment_118748936

I do remember the Blue nun and Liebfraumilch and you are correct on the bread options. The problem is though how to turn around farm land in the hands of anyone under perhaps 60 who has never grown oats or wheat. How do we mill this? Where is all the machinery and contractors? What seeds are available for this climate now? Since a lot of food Irish people eat is actually UK produced and processed I think we have to look at their ability to produce this, like breakfast cereals and the like. It will take some years to turn around the market gardens needed, to find a way to grow wheat here in the limited areas that can grow it, mill it etc. Perhaps barley for animal feed might be ramped up, but we are long long place from being able to switch Irish production away from milk and beef and into finished product for the shelfs here. We don't even have the farm hands, the machinery, mechanics, and processing and transport to run this economically with our tiny market. Would take 10 years or more to work this out and we never could in the past.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748879#Comment_118748879

I get around 350km out of a 45L tank , but the engine is 2.7L. Did your father get a dacia sandero?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748879#Comment_118748879

Based on Sandero... Can be a bit of a faff the first couple of times with the adapter (tell him to keep a 17 spanner in the boot in case he tightens it too far, have had to borrow one in a garage 😅) but it's grand after that. Consumption is slightly worse than petrol but I'm getting 9.0L/100km with AC always on and 90% of it in stop-start traffic. It's well worth it, if he got the Sandero it'll be 30-35 litres for a fill, should get 400km or so out of it. I've found consumption 10-15% worse than using petrol but with current prices it's well worth the 5 minutes to fill the LPG. If he got the Sandero and it's like mine then 3/4 on the LPG gauge means maybe half :P

I hate mentioning LPG in case someone notices and they throw some more taxes on it.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750113#Comment_118750113

Thanks yes he's had 2 Logans but they stopped making them. He got a Dacia Stepway bi fuel

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750166#Comment_118750166

Thanks for that tip. It's a stepway bi fuel.

Is the lpg straightforward to fill? I read that it starts on petrol and then you switch on lpg.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749258#Comment_118749258

Actually, they can.

Obviously they'll be hoping to do it by consent and co-operation, but one minor amendment to the Emergency Measures Act of 2020 by including the clause on food supplies from the Emergency Powers Act of 1939 and the farmers could be directed to grow just about anything, subject to land suitability etc.

c.p.w.g.w

Even at €2 a litre, it's still gonna be cheaper for me to drive to work than get public transport...

68€ fills my car and that gets me 17 days on average...if I was do get public transport it costs €45* per 5 days of work, and would also remove my ability to do overtime as the latest bus wouldn't be late enough

*Imagine the price as increased from 45 since I last had to use public transport for work(16 months ago)

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747444#Comment_118747444

Going for "Sunday Drives", spins and journeys for no reason in a car have been a thing of the past for everyone I know for the last two decades.

KildareP

Have considered electric for some time but even at €2 a litre, in a 2010 Qashqai €100 gets about 1000KM of range (5.3L/100KM), so a newer diesel is most likely even better again on the range.

Hybrid petrol is out of the question for me (100KM daily round trip commute).

A Kona Electric 64kWh is €38k, a Leaf 62kWh Premium is €37k, Model 3 50kWh is €50k, or a Diesel i30 is €28k.

Assuming electricity is at 7c night rate means about €4.30 for the Leaf/Kona or €3.50 for the Model 3 for ~400KM of real world actual range.

Further allowing for €3k of routine servicing over 5 years on the i30 (5-year OTR cost €31k), a cost which won't apply to the EV's, the amount of fuel savings I need to make to breakeven for the Leaf or Kona is €7k and for the Model 3 is €19k.

(Tax savings is less then €500 over 5 years so not going to bother including, likewise consumables not covered by routine service (tyres, break fluid, suspension, etc.) will likely apply equally to both.)

In distance terms, that's about 80,000KM for the Leaf/Kona to breakeven or in excess of 200,000KM for the Model 3.

Over 5 years, that's a minimum 16,000KM a year (Leaf/Kona) or 40,000KM a year (Model 3) just to break even.

500KM commuting a week means I'd comfortably break-even on the Leaf or Kona, and the next 8,000KM I'd expect to do will cost me less than €100 versus €800 for diesel, but I wouldn't come even close to breaking even on the Model 3.

While diesel will likely go up further in the coming months, electricity is equally going to go up even further too - and I could see night rate specifically going up significantly. The only reason night rate is so cheap is because there's an abundance of unused capacity at night that can't (easily) be spun down. If the Russians start turning off the gas supplies, we could end up in a scenario where gas turbine plants are spun down at night and so the abundance of unused capacity will disappear, literally overnight.

Even leaving aside the Russia/Ukraine situation, as more and more EV's, heat pumps and alternative energy storage technologies like battery buffers and hydrogen generation come online and subsequently load the grid at night, then that spare capacity will naturally diminish anyway and so the unit rate will rise accordingly.

Finally, while the 5-year old i30 might be worth significantly less at that stage than when it was new, if night rate sees a significant spike and if they go and introduce something like distance based taxation in the next 5 years, then a 2022 electric car in 5-years time might also be worth significantly less compared to new than a 2017 electric car is today, especially with the expected added choice of models from all of the major players next year.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749258#Comment_118749258

Food is subsidized to ensure it is cheap for the end consumer, the policy now is changing so as to import it from places where environmental protection, concerns, animal welfare, workers rights etc are non existent.