Killing of ISIS leader Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi
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03-02-2022 7:29pm#1
I just saw the footage on RTE news of the house in which it is claimed ISIS leader Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi blew himself and thirteen other people up, including 4 women and 6 children during an attack by US special forces.
Hardly anyone will care if these people killed by US forces or by a suicide bomb but we should care about the truth.
The US narrative just doesn’t appear credible to me.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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The US are finishing a war against what's left of Islamic State.
There are always going to be appalling incidents given the nature of IS, it's leaders and foot soldiers.
So not really sure what the complaint is?
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The question is if the US can be believed when it claims civilians were killed by the enemy when US forces obliterated the building where those civilians lived.
They had to change the narrative of the Kabul drone strike in which 10 civilians were killed, admitting it was an “honest mistake”.
When ground forces are involved and civilians are killed they claim the bad guy blew up his own family and nobody questions if that is true or not.
Also I would question the accuracy of your claim that “the US are finishing a war against what’s left of Islamic State”
The fighting and dying in the war against Islamic State has largely been done by the Syrian army.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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It's credible but we are dealing with a country that made up the "WMDs in Iraq" when they knew Iraq had none and lied to other countries to get them involved in a war there. That's just one lie but there are obviously many more. So I can't see why anyone would blindly believe what they say after that.
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The question is if the US can be believed when it claims civilians were killed by the enemy when US forces obliterated the building where those civilians lived.
The fighting and dying in the war against Islamic State has largely been done by the Syrians
The house wasn't obliterated ,seems a structure on the roof was blown up .
The Syrian fought isis sorry that's utter nonsense ,the Iranians ,hizbollah Russia fought anti Assad forces in and around Damascus.
Fighting isis on the ground was the Kurdish forces backed by Western special forces and airpower ,
Who do you think is currently fighting isis it's not the Assad's forces or Russians.
Langley, Virginia
6410
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Yeah, it really looks like the explosion came from inside the house not.
The US contributed to the rise of ISIS and were happy not to intervene as long as they were weakening Assad.
The US did back the Kurds in their fight against ISIS until, if you remember, they were dumped in favour of Turkey.
Russian and Syrian forces are still dealing with ISIS.
The US helped create ISIS and instability throughout the Middle East after an illegal invasion of Iraq.
The US were humiliated in Afghanistan and their Arab Spring strategy has led to civil war, instability, a refugee crisis and ultimate defeat in Syria.
These foreign policy misadventures have left the US seriously weakened. It’s humiliations and abandonment of allies have undermined its international standing and credibility.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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Russian and Syrian forces are not still fighting isis. And only ever fought them when they threatened the regime. After the Russians baled out Assad, and turned the tide in his favor, all of the resistance held areas were cleared one by one after negotiations which gave the rebels and their families safe passage, with all their light weapons to Idlib, where they remain to this day. There has been a truce between Assad / Russians and anyone presently living in Idlib which would include not only isis, but other anti regime forces too. Some of which would be anti-isis as well as anti regime. Neither the regime or Russians have attacked isis or anyone else in Idlib for more than 2 years. And neither will they, unless Assad is threatened. However, the Yazidi's have continued their fight, and as this latest attack shows, the US is still attacking isis too. You can be sure that the US is supplying and supporting the Yazidi's in other ways than boots on the ground.
Latest BBC news from 1 hour ago, The special forces landed by helicopters and surrounded the house, and according to locals, using megaphones called on the inhabitants to leave, and people did leave, from the ground floor, and 10 people, including 8 children were evacuated safely. The white helmets say that they found the bodies of 6 children and 4 women in the house after the raid. The US forces came under heavy fire, and the whole operation lasted 2 hours, with one of the helicopters having to be destroyed. ( reportedly by a technical mal function ) The 3rd story roof was damaged, and its thought this was when Al-Hashimi blew the explosives that were rigged. Hashimi's 2nd in command and his wife and children. who were in the 2nd story were killed also. The decision to raid it and not bomb it was taken precisely to keep the deaths and casualties to a minimum.
According to you, the US is finished, all credibility destroyed for all time..big bad empire. And you are delighted!! Wonder why so many people are trying to reach it so, from all over the world??? Thousands and thousands....Well, I'll tell you one thing, God help the free world, if the US ever goes under. They have made mistakes, and bloody great big ones at that, and these are well known, but I'd infinitely prefer to live in a not -perfect warts and all US, than many of the Countries on Earth at the present time.
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What solar system do you inhabit?
ISIS were defeated because of an international effort, led by Syrians and Kurdish.
I love how you downplay the Yanks various incursions as 'mistakes'.
'The Greatest Military in History' seem quite prone to 'mistakes'.
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Go back to bed .....
You forgot to mention putin , Russia good America bad ...
Langley, Virginia
6410
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It looks perfectly credible to me.
On the other hand, the notion that the US forces blew up everybody in the house would also look perfectly credible to me.
Both sides in this conflict are quite capable of doing something like that.
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@SafeSurfer Russian and Syrian forces are still dealing with ISIS......
Seems the Americans and Kurdish forces are in the media for killing Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi ..
Remind us what the thread title is
The killing of Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi ,
Killed by US and Kurdish forces ....
Not Syrian or Russian forces , apparently they are still looking for ISIS how many years later
Langley, Virginia
6410
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I'm the person that says Putin is a dictatorial menace and Russia and USA get up to bollocks abroad.
I'm objective.
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About last night - it seems reasonable collateral damage that civilians and kids die in these type of raids/attacks
something tells me the same blasé attitude wouldn't fly if american kids were being killed to get a single guy.
it's ok once it "others" :rolleyes:
America is a stain on humanity with it's foreign policy - sadly for Americans , American foreign policy is controlled by an elite few to suit their own evil agenda but they are all labelled with it.
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Why would American special forces blow up a building from the ground?
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The stain on humanity is Isis - what kind of human being uses children as a human shield? Or indeed children as suicide bombers. This guy killed his own kids, and he wouldn’t bat an eyelid at killing yours (assuming you’re not Muslim). Good riddance.
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sure ISIS are a stain also - so you missed the point.
ISIS came with a burst and and almost gone - yet we have decades of american "freedom" being foist on the world . A world that doesn't want it.
all to suit the agenda of the Israel , the military industrial complex and big Corporates.
Ever wonder why america is so hated by many in certain parts of the world? Ever wonder how these groups can recruit?
America does the recruiting for them by their interventions around the globe that causes massive upheaval to the lives of local and plenty of civilian deaths. Name one place they ever made better ? Maybe Bosnia for the muslim population but that's a stretch.
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‘Name one place they ever made better’
Europe 1945
You’ll get your wish soon, the US is getting more insular and less willing to be involved in regional conflict. Nothing to worry about, I’m sure the likes of Russia and Belarus have total respect for human rights, without America there’d be no more war 🙄
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You probably wont believe this, but I was in Syria from 2013-2016, and was in Damascus when the Syrian Free Army and isis came out of the manholes in the streets inside the Damascus security perimeter. The fall of Damascus was expected within days at that stage. Every night ( and in the day too) from the hill overlooking Damascus, Assad forces were shelling opposition forces on the city perimeter itself. And every day, and night, the opposition were firing mortars into the city. The building in the local park 2 mins walk from where I lived, was demolished by a mortar, a house on the street itself was hit by another, and the street peppered with shrapnel . I still have a piece from that particular bomb. This constant shelling went on until the Russians cleared the areas around Damascus, and that was when a deal was struck between the Regime and opposition forces that allowed the opposition to move to Idlib, with their Family's and light weapons. I remember the convoys of busses escorted by regime force's travelling to Idlib, where they remain to this day, with their agreement. The Russians then moved to Tartous and Latakia where they set up bases. These coastal areas of Syria were Assad strongholds, and always pretty well defended, the Russian arrival just made then even safer. They never attacked the main isis bases in Raqqa and Deir al Zour. The final defeat for isis occurred on 23 march, 2019 when Kurdish led Syrian Democratic forces, backed by the US took Baghus, the last city controlled by isis. Now where did you get your experience with isis / Kurds/ Regime/ Russians/ Americans? when were you there?? or was it from the TV-Newspapers??
As for your comment " Greatest Military in History prone to making mistakes " . Throughout history, great militaries have been making mistakes, of one kind or another. The US in not alone in this, like wise, and with rare exceptions, invaders are there to rob and subdue the invaded Country, and not for the good of its population.
Now picking on my description of "Mistake" made by the US....pick any word you like to describe the US activities in the last century ( now there's a nice long time line for you) and where these actions were Wrong, Criminal, Illegal etc. I'd agree with you. But trying to make out that the US of A are , and always have been the worlds worst criminals is at best wrong, and at worst pure anti-US propaganda. You want to be impartial, then line up the 10 worst Country's in the world under the same criteria ( Democracy, Human Rights, Freed of speech etc) you are judging the US with, and then we will see. For sure, there are many Countries in the World, where saying the same things as you are saying about the US, would mean a midnight visit to your house, or place of work, or just a car stopping beside you as you walked along the street. And that, Hello, is happening at this very point in time in many cities across the world. Ask me how I know.......
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Syrian forces are not still fighting ISIS?
I’m sure the families of the 5 dead Syrian soldiers killed by ISIS just a few weeks ago will take great comfort in that.
You say I am delighted that US credibility has been undermined.
I assure you I am not.
You ask why thousands and thousands of people are trying to reach the US. Well the truth is thousands of people have been fleeing the countries of their birth, it no small part because of US foreign policy. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, all destabilised or destroyed by US misadventures.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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Except that where possible, the US at least try's to minimize deaths and injury's to the civilian population. And in this case, they could have done this with absolutely no risk to their own soldiers lives, with a simple flic of a switch a drone could have completely destroyed the building, reduced it to rubble, and killed everyone in it. But, no they went to the trouble of planning and assembling a team to go in and do the job, face to face and hand to hand. And they did save lives. Isis, and its like minded brethren are not suffering from any such constraints ... if and when they do kill fellow Muslims, its the Will of Allah. And they have killed more Muslims than any other protagonists in that part of the world, and further afield.
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sure.
It's not an either - or. USA or the Russia.
The 1960s called, they want their propaganda back.
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I never said that isis were 100 % destroyed in Syria. While its 100% true, that their Caliphate has been destroyed and dismantled, there are still pockets of isis fanatics alive and well in Syria, and yes they are still killing Syrians, and others as well. But 5 Syrian deaths in one incident 2021, compare's very well with daily incident statistics from 2018, when isis were at the height of their power. Many of my Syrian friends have lost family members to isis attack's, and I've been at more than enough funerals to last me a lifetime, so I know more than enough about what their Families are going through. Now instead of making sarcastic comment's like " I'm sure that the Families of the 5 Syrian Soldiers killed in an isis attack will take great comfort from that" why don't you criticize the root cause of the problem?? ISIS. And unfortunately, isis is not finished their killing either in Syria or the rest of the world. During the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, they attacked a perimeter gate, crammed with Afghans, killing 13 US soldiers, and dozens of Afghans. Now that they have been defeated in Syria, they are raising the isis flag in other parts of the world. Afghanistan ( isis -K ) Somalia, Philippines, Nigeria, Sinai Peninsula.
The US has always been a magnet for immigrants from all over the World, and that pre dates any of the Countrys you mention. The US invaded Afghanistan, and remained there for twenty years. Those 20 years are probably the best 20 years in Afghanistan's history. And in the few mths since the US " Invaders" left, the Country is rapidly falling backwards to where it was in pre US times. What is happening there now is catastrophic...Afghanistan has always suffered famines,,,and in 2011, the population stood at 20 million people. Massive mother and baby death toll's...for adults, any kind of illness carried a high death rate. 20 years of "Enemy" occupation and trillions of USD spent, population increases to 40 million, better outcomes for all sectors of the population education for women, infrastructure, the list goes on . The famines not making the headlines any more, because the good ol US of A ( and EU ) were managing them. But yeah, US are the bad guys. Now we will see just who are the bad guys in Afghanistan.
Syrian civil was was started by Syrians in Hom's, and escalated from there, and then other Country's took sides, inc. the US. But to blame it all on the US is not telling the whole story.
Libya: there was and had been growing unrest in Libya coming from within the general Libyan population. And it was when Ghaddafi started massacring his own people that the west got involved with their no-fly zones. And again, they were not the only Country with vested interests. For sure many Libyan people wanted him gone. Problem is as a Libyan friend explained to me, was that with Ghaddafi, there was only one, but now they have many Ghaddafi's
Iraq, regardless of the monster that Saddam was, the invasion on made up false charges of non existent WMD, was an unmitigated and criminal act beyond forgiveness.
There were other outcomes to from US involvement...2nd world war, Japan was rebuilt, as was Germany, the Marshall plan. And none of that would have been possible without the US involvement. A bit of research will give a lot of positive results for American involvements world wide.
But hey, the US are the permanent bad guys.
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Except that where possible, the US at least try's to minimize deaths and injury's to the civilian population. And in this case, they could have done this with absolutely no risk to their own soldiers lives, with a simple flic of a switch a drone could have completely destroyed the building, reduced it to rubble, and killed everyone in it.The pertinent questions is why didn't they? I think the answer lies more in the optics than nobility.
Obama's administration wrote the rule book on minimizing civilian causalities, but even then it was allowed, the scale ranged from zero to unspecified. But civilian deaths were acceptable based on largely the risk profile of the target. Biden reinstated the rule book and incorporated it into his "over the horizon" policy.
This high profile target ticked all the boxes for a drone strike under Biden's own policy.
The problem is though, they could not afford to get it drastically wrong again, the last high profile drone strike killed 10 civilians, which in itself wouldn't be unusual, but it had a 100% civilian casualty rate which even to your most ardent american war mongering citizen is not palatable.
Biden got lucky with the raid, Win-Win-Win for him.
Scumbag blows himself up, he kills the civilians, no American casualties and the White House get to release the photos of the President with his jacket off in the war room.
Fine margins though, if the Americans had taken casualties themselves, the question would revert back to why didn't he use a drone.
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Meh it's a win-win situation however you look at it, another ISIS rat wiped off the face of the earth and 10 other potential headhackers in waiting taken out as well. I won't lose any sleep over it.
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At least try to get some of your facts right.
You said the Syrian army isn’t fighting ISIS.
They are.
You said the Syrian soldiers were killed in 2021.
They were killed in 2022.
You say the 20 years of US occupation of Afghanistan, “Operation Enduring Freedom”, were probably the best in the country’s history.
I suppose all your Afghani friends are telling you this are they?
You say the population of Afghanistan in 2011 was 20 million.
It wasn’t, it was 30 million.
You said the West got involved in Libya with no fly zones.
There was much more western involvement in Libya than no fly zones. A no fly zone is where enemy aircraft are prevented from flying in Libya Western powers bombed Libyan forces to force regime change.
You glibly conclude by sarcastically saying the Americans are the permanent bad guys.
No one is suggesting that. However their intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria has not covered them in glory. Their non intervention in the horrific atrocities committed by their dictator allies, the Saudis in Yemen reinforces the cynicism we should have of American foreign policy motives and morality.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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"why didn't they".
1) Confirmation that he was there and he is deaded.
2) Can grab computers etc for further intel.
There's nothing stopping them blowing up the house afterwards, of course, but there is equally absolutely no reason to do it.
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I never suggested they blew up the house.
But how do they confirm the 1000s of other higher profile targets they obliterated with drone strikes?
Also I very much doubt this lad with 10m dollar bounty on his head had internet access.
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American kids are perfectly acceptable as collateral damage to Americans but only if it's black ones shot by police or poor ones conscripted to fight foreign wars.
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You mentioned the recent deaths of 5 Syrian Soldiers, you didn't say when, so I assumed 2021. My big bad. I never said that the Syrian Army did not fight isis...EVERY one fought isis but it was not the Syrian army which defeated isis. The Russian and Syrian Army's prime function was to protect the regime, and that's exactly what they did. And still do to this day. But that did not extend to driving isis out of Syria... first that would have meant too many Russian body bags and loss of equipment etc, and no guarantee of success, and of course removed the reason for Assad needing the Russians. The Russians needed the threat of isis and the free Syrian Army to maintain their hold on Assad., and they still do. So no, it was not the regular Syrian army which defeated isis, it was the Kurds, and the Free Syrian Army supported by the US which were the main forces which did that.
And on the Afghan population question, one source I checked (Country Economy Afghanistan 2010 says 24.6 million ) and current population is given at 40.38 Million. Either figure you go by, shows a remarkable increase in population Nrs. Which is attributed to the US spending in Afghanistan. But, anyway...give it a few months and see what will happen when the full effects of the US departure are felt... but even now, its not looking good.. Afghanistan is being ranked as the worst hunger crisis in the world for 2022., source International Rescue Committee, with widespread poverty and collapse of the health system and society in general with massive inflation affecting what ever cash family's have. There are already story's of women ( and men) selling kidney's ( or other body parts) for cash in order to survive, and very young girls sold to older men in marriage "arrangements".
I have lived and worked in Afghanistan for many years, and made many friends , so yes they keep me updated, I saw first hand the changes the US made for the better. If it was possible to hold referendum now, to bring back the US, how would it go do you think??? Let me tell you...it would win by a landslide.
As for Libya, Ghaddafi was ruthlessly putting down a revolt with such brutality, that NATO got involved and declared a no -fly zone to protect the civilian population. So an approved security council mandate. Nothing to do with the US. If Ghadafi had had his blood thirsty way, the big question would have been "Why did no one stop him?" And, yes I know very well what a "No Fly Zone" is and how it operates..I was in plenty of them.
" your quote " Glibly and sarcastically " now if that's the kind of terminology you want to use to denigrate any of my posts, it says more about you then me. If you want to continue the discussion, fine, but keep these kind of remarks to yourself. I don't use them in my posts. Aim for the point under discussion, not the poster.
.Just scroll through the many posts here on Boards, and see how many are bad mouthing the US...When was the last time you saw a post glorifying or praising the US? I'm not under any illusions about what the US is and isn't, and that's for sure, but if I had to choose between all the superpowers, I'd still be voting for the US. The thing is, what ever chance you have of seeing or hearing about all the bad things the US do, there's too many country's where you will only hear what they want you to hear.
Regarding Saudi, I'm 100% of the same view.
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You mention you know how No fly zones operate because you were in plenty of them.
In your experience of many UN mandated no fly zones is it usual for TV stations to be targeted and for rebel forces to be armed?
Do you know how many Libyan aircraft were shot down? None. 400 tanks destroyed.
The House of Commons cross party investigation into intervention in Libya was scathing in its criticism.
You say Gadaffi was ruthlessly putting down a revolt. Did your Libyan friends tell you that. The French claimed half a million people were imminently going to be butchered in Benghazi. All later discredited.
NATO went on the offensive in Libya after Libya had declared a ceasefire and after the US had launched the first attacks. A simple case of regime change and lucrative oil contracts for a French company ELF.
Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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One of the main reasons isis ( and others of the same ilk) mingle and integrate with "normal" populations is for protection.. they are well aware that the US and other western military's are very reluctant to attack if it involves civilian deaths ( I know the 10 innocent deaths in Afghanistan belie that statement, but the circumstances were far different there ) isis do not give damn who or how many gets killed, or who does the killing. If its the US, its makes for really good propaganda ( another reason that the US avoid it as much as they can, aside from the human aspect.) and if they are killed by isis, its Ins'h Allah. Over all, isis has killed thousands more Muslims than non Muslims. Isis are as evil as evil gets.
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