Can't walk on country roads anymore

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563860#Comment_118563860

SUV sales hit new records, driving up emissions (rte.ie)

Off topic for the thread I know, but the environmental footprint of SUVs is massive, far larger than conventional cars.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563878#Comment_118563878

If you prefer to remain invisible on murky evenings and at night knock yourself out.

Wearing a light piece of material is a terrible violation of your freedom. Bless.

gooseman12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563959#Comment_118563959

I dont disagree at all with your statement, the why people speed and what will discourage them from speeding is a whole other can of worms but the fundamental reason we can't walk on the roads anymore is because drivers are speeding

magicbastarder

also, a bugbear of mine - the fact that they post the locations of go-safe vans online; i believe in some effort to try to demonstrate that they're not a revenue-generating ploy.

posting where they are is the same as posting where they aren't.

Viscount Aggro

I drive at 40koh on country roads. I do get people tailgating me a lot.

Its their problem, as they can't pass me, and I've a towbar sticking out.

If anyone wants to take it to the next level, bring it on.

gk5000

I walk and cycle on country roads all the time( and also drive). It's doable but you have to have your wits about you.

I prefer single lane roads, and there is no need to widen them. Cars have to slow down/stop if they meet another car. When walking I stand in a bit to allow the car past, but only after they have slowed down. Nobody is going to whizz past me a few feet away at 60kph or more. I do be prepared to jump in to the verge/hedge, but also to take a car reg if needed. Cycling the same, but I always pull in to also cars/tractors pass me on narrow roads.

2 lane roads are more problematic as they are faster, and people unreasonably expect to have the lane to themselves. When ycling, I stay out 3 foot from the edge. People can still pass me if it is safe to do so by using they other lane same as they would if they were passing a tractor. It's important not to leave nearly enough room that a person tries to squeeze past you at speed 1 foot away with both of you in the same lane.

When walking on a two lane road I largely stay out a little and force people to slow down and go round me, though I make exceptions for large vehicles, trucks and tractors. I will not jump in the hedge, though be prepared.

I always were a high-viz day or night, and lights if needed. I find the anti high-viz stupid. I want to give cars the best, and earliest chance to see me - Camouflage is for soldiers. I detest meeting people in the dappled shade or overcast/raining day in dark clothes while driving.

There is a good analogy, unfortunately with rape. It is always the perpetrators fault irrespective of what the victim is wearing, but its the victim who has to live with the impact for the rest of their lives. So yes the driver should drive at a speed where they can see you, but its you who may end up in hospital. Knowledge that it is the drivers fault/responsibility is a questionable comfort.

Gary kk

It's full of blind turns end off. Two lorries meeting at the wrong turn at the wrong and it doesn't matter how careful they are!!!

Edit.

Going to add that cyclist and pedestrians must also take the the road conditions as a factor before the set out.

If you know there's a higher risk of an accident on certain roads then avoid them.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230518/cant-walk-on-country-roads-anymore

State never made roads for cyclists nor pedestrians, only for cars with no sidewalks. It could be fixed by taking a piece of land from private owners to widen these narrow winding roads and make safe space for everyone. But the government is full of excuses and too lazy, and the private owners won't agree to give their property for the society's welfare. And here we are stuff with ancient private property protection laws and ancient roads not fit the modern society's lifestyle.

Tombo2001

Councils dont help by having ridiculous high speed limits - a 40k or 30k limit should be the max in any residential area (including a rural stretch with a row of consecutive houses). Its frequently double that.

Or 80k on narrow country roads. The important point here is that while you might be driving too fast, because you are within the speed limit - therefore your local judge will decide its not dangerous driving.

The irony is that the newspapers bang on about country living and fresh air and the benefits. But people I know who live in the country cant let their kids outside the house grounds because of the traffic.

Its nuts really that society puts up with all the aggressive traffic considering the multitude of costs.

magicbastarder

i wear bright tops while out on the bike. it's not that i thinks it makes a difference, it's that i don't want to give whatever driver who shunts me into a ditch the excuse of 'but he wasn't wearing hi-vis!!'

the vast majority of cases where i have felt endangered were not cases where the driver didn't see me, it's where they didn't care.

Tombo2001

Bear in mind of course that drivers are bit like dog owners - most of them are decent. But the 20% that let their dog sh*t everywhere can still really mess things up for everyone.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563988#Comment_118563988

I'm talking about the road footprint, as people are saying they're all too big these days.

Gary kk

It is 80km on back roads

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564009#Comment_118564009

There's nothing anyone can do when people are unable to adapt their driving to suit murky evenings and unable to see people with torches. Magic vests won't save people.

All it is is an excuse for such people to blame for their own **** driving.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564134#Comment_118564134

i would be very surprised if most roads in ireland didn't exist before the locals had cars to drive on them.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564134#Comment_118564134

Aside from the absolutely massive cost, widening roads does not remove the danger and what you are doing is creating a shared area for walkers and cyclists. By creating such a shared space, you are now effectively saying that waslkers and cyclists must use that shared space and drivers who drove fast can continue to do so but now knowing that the risks have reduced somewhat; so they can therefore go a bit faster.

When I'm cycling at 30-40km/h, is this safe to do so in a shared space with pedestrians? No. So I use the road and we're now back to square one - I have to share the road with some drivers who simply don't care about my safety.

Hurrache

And for the record, as a poster alluded to, I'm not anti high vis. I'm anti the idea that it solves problems on the road when you're walking or cycling one. It simple doesn't, and the RSA can't provide research and evidence that it will.

Like I said yesterday, thinking that wearing a high vis vest day and night is the opposite of camouflage you're misguided. Wearing one in daylight can make you harder to see than if you were wearing black.

If you can't see my lights, torch, reflective flashings on runners, shorts, tops or jackets and bags, or reflectors on pedals and wheels or even a Sam Brown belt, an RSA high vis has adds the additional safety value of **** all.

But if a motorist is driving dangerously and come to a stop to rebuke you, you can absolutely guarantee the first thing out of their mouth is "where's your vest?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564009#Comment_118564009

hi vis vests compulsory in cars in Germany. hi vis vests compulsory in France and must be stored within the cabin not the boot.

Those Countries seem to think vests are useful.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564226#Comment_118564226

I think the requirement may be reflective vests moreso than high vis, the emphasis is on the reflectiveness for when worn at night. Nobody here is arguing against that.

They don't have to be those yellow ones.

As with everything in Germany there are ISO standards, rules and penalties

https://www.adac.de/verkehr/recht/verkehrsvorschriften-deutschland/warnweste/

Macy0161

The only thing that has helped me walking is holding my phone ready to record - I often see the driver think of the close pass, see the phone and then slow down and wait until it's safe. Same on the bike - the most effective "hi viz" I have is a gillet that has a big camera on the back, along with "Recording my journey".

The single biggest thing missing from driving in this State is patience. That impacts the speed - I don't know when "Drive to a speed you can safely stop in in the distance you can see" was dropped, along with "expect the unexpected"?

The amount of victim blaming on this thread is ridiculous - roads should be safe to walk on day and night. The only thing that makes them "dangerous" is driver behaviour. Not the road, not the bends, just driver behaviour. If motorists drove at an appropriate speed these "dangers" would be taken out.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564203#Comment_118564203

How do you make room for all the chips on your shoulders?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564261#Comment_118564261

I disagree. When a road has not been resurfaced in 40 years, has no camber, collects water and your car goes in to a four wheel slide going around a corner at low speed then the road is not safe an no amount of patience will compensate for ice rinks masquerading as public highways.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564276#Comment_118564276

You. Drive. To. The. Conditions.

There are very few roads that have not been resurfaced in 40 years. If the road is not suitable for driving at a particular speed, then don't try to drive at that speed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564298#Comment_118564298

Tell me what the ROTR says about driving on Ice Rinks.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564173#Comment_118564173

It would be deliciously ironic if you were 'forced' to use one for your workplace.

magicbastarder

one thing i've seen on several tight bends is a 'sand ripple' effect - my assumption is that as motorists brake at the corner, it starts to pull on the tarmac, which slowly builds up into slight waves - and thus you get reduced braking. you can kinda see it here, especially if you look at some of the older street view imagery:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5104628,-6.4280525,3a,75y,277.48h,69.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stutD8PNNPmMxKXem_yJP_A!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Macy0161

I'm really not going down this rabbit hole - if it's water, you'd only aqua plane going at speed. If it was iced over, it was hardly that localise. Very few roads are in that condition. Very few boreens would be in such a state. If it's such corner you couldn't see the water/ ice, then it could just as easily be a tractor.

I was coming into a small town in Laois, decided to take trip off the motorway on a Cork - Dublin journey and have breakfast. I was driving at the speed limit on the road coming into the edge of a village, and it was a very reasonable if even a bit generous limit - think it was 60km/h and some guy was tailgating me, even started flashing and then passed me on a blind bend with school kids walking on the road and bikes etc!!!

I’m also finding this thing of people passing bikes and driving straight into the other lane of oncoming traffic, expecting you to just somehow get out of the way and avoid a head on collision seems to be happening way too much. I had to literally hit the brakes on a road out by Ballycotton in East Cork because a car was completely on the wrong side of the road and didn’t seem to give a damn, just as long a they aggressively overtook a cyclist. There wasn’t even any significant traffic !

The other one that’s shocking me is the number of times I’m seeing drivers clearly in the middle of posting on social media. I was walking past a school and saw a woman who’d just let her kids out then proceed to reverse & manoeuvre - while typing on a smartphone !!! There were kids everywhere…

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564271#Comment_118564271

I work out a lot, but I never skip leg day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563877#Comment_118563877

I drive a SUV. It’s no wider than a saloon or estate car, just taller, which suits my ageing bones.

To be quite honest, in my experience at least, it tends to be less to do with the type of car (although certain brands attract certain personalities) but it’s very much about the temperament of the driver.

I think there’s a coarsening of driver behaviour. If you take something like urban traffic light breaking, that’s a relatively new phenomenon. It’s like a few years ago people started taking chances on red lights then more people followed and now it’s like you can’t be sure if a green light or green pedestrian crossing means that you’re safe until a few seconds after the lights have changed.

Driving too fast or too aggressively on rural roads is careless driving - not paying attention to road conditions. We aren’t prosecuting it enough.

Ave Sodalis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564048#Comment_118564048

To be fair, this isn't good either. While there may be certain stretches or areas where this speed is necessary, driving this slow all the time and insisting everyone else does too (i.e. not pulling in) is what leads to frustrated and therefore aggressive drivers. There's a good middle ground between driving too fast, and driving too slow.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118556220#Comment_118556220

We aee not getting self driving cars in Ireland because the weather doesn't suit them. It rains too much.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563880#Comment_118563880

Disagree with alot of this - the primary purpose of a road is to facilitate automobiles. The Irish motorist is creamed for every last cent that can be gleaned from him/her and as a paying customer they should be afforded good quality roads that facilitate their automobiles. The R693 that @Gary kk mentions is a dangerous route and despite a new bypass of Threecastles village a decade or so ago, there have been no added facilities for cyclists and pedestrians included. It wouldn't have cost that much more to lay down a cycle lane.

To say that motorists should share road space with vulnerable users and adjust accordingly is not going to happen widely. Anyway it's a cheapskate way of addressing the issue that there are no roadside facilities for cyclists and walkers across the vast majority of rural Ireland, especially so outside of 50km/h zones. As for your comment about lights changing from green to orange to red - thats an issue for the council/NRA/TII who put a set time limit on the changes regardless of traffic volumes. A case in point is Abbeyleix. Crossing the R430 is an art. The timing is set for 25 seconds which might allow six vehicles to cross, there is often more queuing to cross the N77.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565148#Comment_118565148

Do you really believe yourself?

Roads are shared spaces despite the approach council's have taken in the past. There are very few roads dedicated only to vehicular traffic, notably motorways. This is not up for discussion. It is a fact of law.

As for you being "creamed for every last cent that can be gleaned from him/her and as a paying customer they should be afforded good quality roads that facilitate their automobiles", that has nothing to do with the discussion. If you don't want to pay then don't drive but payment of road charges, etc does not create an inherent right to the roads.

Lastly, your nonsense about people breaking red lights being "an issue for the council/NRA/TII" there is k my one person responsible for breaking an amber or red light and that is the person who broke it - nobody else.

Chips Lovell

The issue is very simple. You need to drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions and expect to encounter other classes of road user (pedestrians, cyclists, etc.) since the vast majority of roads are a shared space.

The problem is a growing number of people who insists on driving at a speed or level of attentiveness inappropriate to the conditions and then blaming other road users for their failings.

It's very simple, but it's remarkable how many people fail to grasp this.

magicbastarder

my wife has a horse and won't take it out on the road; she knows a few people brave enough to do so and some of them have stories which are infuriating - motorists dropping a gear and deliberately revving the engine just as they're passing, that sort of thing.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565014#Comment_118565014

Agree, making a bad situation worse teaching lessons to other drivers by going too slow or stopping in the middle of the road.

There's one police force on the roads and you're not it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565322#Comment_118565322

When that happens, take note of the car Reb and report it.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555178#Comment_118555178

First off this is vandalising public property that more money will be spent on to repair, secondly why is a dog out loose on the road?

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565404#Comment_118565404

Report it to who though, Gardai won't do anything.

magicbastarder

also, when you're on a horse and someone has deliberately caused your horse to spook, you simply won't be in a position to note the reg.

Joe1919

The roads are for everyone. There is a reported proposed change of law in England to reflect this. I think its a good idea and Ireland should do similar.

The introduction of a hierarchy of road users recognises in law that those who pose the greatest risk to others have a higher level of responsibility. This means someone cycling will have greater responsibility to look out for people walking, while someone driving would have greater responsibility to look out for people cycling, walking or riding a horse.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/new-highway-code-amendments-challenge-might-right-mindset-uk-roads

Quitelife

Lots of unemployed types round our way have no problem bringing their horses and chariots on the road...they use the road as a private racetrack/schooling track and law abiding car drivers or SUV drivers for that matter are intimidated off the road the same as walkers or cyclists

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565148#Comment_118565148

Surely to god the primary purpose of a road is to facilitate people....

There are flaws throughout what you say, but as a starting point, this.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565766#Comment_118565766

Very good.

However you (or me) are 100000% more likely to be killed by a car/ van/ truck /bus than by a pony and trap, or for that matter a cyclist.

Ave Sodalis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118565604#Comment_118565604

I mentioned before that I had a particular day where I had multiple near misses in a 20 minute loop. Thankfully, I was leading the horse not riding it but I was shook enough that I went into the Garda station about it to ask if there was any point to a helmet camera. They said it was definitely worth the investment.

Drivers don't realise they're not safe when dealing with large animals either. It may seem that way when you're in the car, but you're almost as much at risk as the animal and handler. There is a good chance that an animal goes through the windscreen and if it does that and it doesn't die immediately, whoever is in the front seat is in serious risk of major injury or death. I actually had a close one in a separate incident where a car came up behind me as I was on a horse. I started trotting to get to the nearest pull in to let them go (it was only about 200m away), and they decided to drive right up behind me. They weren't long backing up when the horse shot a foot out towards their windscreen, having missed the bonnet that it was aiming at. Lucky for the driver, the horse didn't do it out of panic, it was just an opinionated mare that didn't like strange things inches away from her tail so quit when they backed off.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118566957#Comment_118566957

Do cars not have to yield and give right of way to someone riding or leading a horse on the road?

magicbastarder

i doubt 90% of motorists would have a blind clue what their responsibilities are in relation to horses.