6 nations 22

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625658#Comment_118625658

As others have sad. there other competitions in Europe. Currently 7 divisions across 5 tiers(some split geographically) all with promotion and relegation except from 6 Nations to the Rugby Europe Championship. The Georgians could do ok. About same as Italy if given more opportunities but we wont know unless they get to play all the 6 nations sides far more on a more regular basis

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625303#Comment_118625303

Their u20’s beat england on friday night.

When france joined the competition it took them how many years before they won it?

Need to look to the future for the competition not the past.

blueser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625803#Comment_118625803

This is their 22nd year in the 6 Nations. They haven't won in the tournament since 2015, a losing run of 33 games. After winning their inaugural game against Scotland, they've won just 11 of the subsequent 96 games. And in 21 seasons, they've finished bottom 16 times. They're showing no signs of improving, at senior level at least. What do the other teams, or indeed Italy themselves, get from these incessant defeats? Just how long do you propose we give them?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625898#Comment_118625898

But who do we replace them with considering the alternatives are not going to be better and what Unions will want to give up on the 5th game and all the income from those as well as the extra game time for players?

They werent even playing in celtic league for years and are getting their development systems in order. it will take time to show at senior level and we need to keep them and get more teams competing at the higher levels.

blueser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625951#Comment_118625951

There were rumours about South Africa being invited, though it looks like that's been knocked on the head now. But why replace Italy with anyone? The five nations worked perfectly fine for donkey's years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625803#Comment_118625803

They’re nil for 29 against England. And no reason to believe that won’t turn into nil for 50. Don’t see how that’s good for rugby.

Didnt realise their U20s won, and that’s great, but we’ve been talking about Italy renaissance for years

Peregrine

Italy U20s Six Nations results:

2022: One win so far (vs England) and will likely get another

2021: One win (vs Scotland)

2020: One win out of three (vs Wales), two games cancelled

2019: One win (vs Scotland)

2018: Two wins (vs Scotland and Wales)

Now is really not the time to talk about kicking Italy out.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625898#Comment_118625898

what good does it do world rugby kicking them out?

watch the youtube video squidge has on them and there is reason for optimism.

ersatz

Thanks for the updates on other comps for tier 2 in Europe. Anyone know about audiences for them, are they growing? Romania and Georgia have always had strong traditions in certain areas and Spain have come a long way over recent years, not sure how the profile has grown in the likes of Germany and Holland though.

it’s true, we have seen green shoots a few times W Italy, only for things to decline again. I still think the current team has promise assuming there’s a few u20s coming up. They’re reverted to type against England but they looked decent against France.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626185#Comment_118626185

tv or attendances?

Georgians always get huge crowds for home games v Russia and it can vary considerably for other games. Wouldnt be completely sure on other countries. Spain has always had good tradition in some areas with closeness to basque/catalonian rugby areas of france helping. Dutch club rugby is very heavily led by Ex pat dominated sides which doesnt help national side that much.

Peregrine

Attendance is usually in the low thousands with Georgia being closer to 10,000 (especially against Russia). It was better before COVID and will hopefully recover. Both the coverage and the quality of rugby have improved in recent years but they would all still get beaten by Italy year in, year out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626247#Comment_118626247

I went to Tbilisi on holiday over Christmas and the only thing that the car hire rep wanted to talk about, when he found out I was from Ireland, was rugby. They even have a TV channel dedicated to rugby. They’re mad into it there. Big lads too

Pussyhands

I don't want italy relegated. Italy would still beat Georgia every time.

And also I wouldn't be a fan of adding Georgia. I feel like the 6 teams have a lot in common culturally and all 6 capitals are top european capitals. Can't say the prospect of flying to Eastern Europe with a +4 hour time difference would be attractive.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627187#Comment_118627187

i don’t think anyone is suggesting Georgia be added. Georgian rugby was just a side conversation for a moment. It’s interesting how popular it is there

fryup

i presume they'll be wholesale changes for the for the italy match ??

AbusesToilets

You guys realise Italy are shareholders in the 6Ns? No one is kicking them out. Stupid conversation.

fryup

and iirc it took France something like 50 years before they won their first 5 nations?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633635#Comment_118633635

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118632683#Comment_118632683

Agreed. But France won games in the meantime. Italy are woeful and getting no better and the whole competition is compromised by their involvement. I mean, every team makes ‘wholesale changes’ for their Italy game and the comp can be won on the basis of however many points were put on Italy

They’re nil for 29 against England and no reason to think they won’t be nil for 50.

Probably the best thing about their involvement is the jolly to Rome. I agree that they’re not going anywhere, but its a worse competition for it

CONSI

Would fully expect sweeping change for Italy game, if we are treating this like a mini world cup then we need to rest our front line guys, as we would in world cup v "weaker" group teams. Would like to see Carberry start again, expect Murray to come in at 9. Coombes would be great at 8 and I'd start Baird and Henderson in 2nd row. Henshaw needs game time so start him along side Hume and think Balacoune deserves a shot on the wing with Larmour maybe on the other one, i'd nearly give Lowry the 15 jersey. We have to see what the players can do if needed to come in. Craig casey on the bench to add some tempo as italians tire.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633674#Comment_118633674

And it would be worse for all involved if you got rid of them. Less matches, less income, less opportunities for other players to play international rugby. They arent going anywhere but its not worse competition for it.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633674#Comment_118633674

Big difference tho, in that France joined during the amateur era. Italy have been competing against established professional teams, built on a solid base of domestic rugby. It's not a fair comparison.

I'd be much more in favor of a Euro style comp, played 2 years out from the WC. Get the 6Ns and European Rugby teams together, have them compete for a Cup/ PLate/ Shield, a la 7s.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633674#Comment_118633674

Italy's young players look pretty decent. I'd expect to see them become a lot better in five years time.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634555#Comment_118634555

We have heard this so many times in the past. "Italy look like they're building something" is the same as the "Scotland could be a threat this year" talk.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634585#Comment_118634585

we have never before had Italian U 20s winning and being competitive with the regularity we currently have.

That u20s team that beat england last weekend, also beat england when they were U18s, and lost to England last season in the JRWC by only 1 point.

In the last 4 years the italian 20s have beaten Scotland 3 times (once by 40 points), beat wales twice and beat england as above, beat argentina... and been very competitive against ireland and france with 4 games within 10 points.

The Italian squad for this 6 nations specifically restricted the number of over 23's in the squad, leading to them having the youngest squad by far. There is no player in the squad over 30 years of age. There are 12 players 23 or younger.

Will they ship more losses in the immediate future? absolutely,.. and some may be very ugly. However the italians are most definitely building something they haven been doing before.

Dubinusa

The Italians will improve. Judging by their u20's. Remember, Benneton won the Rainbow cup beating the Bulls. I expect they'll perform better v Wales and Scotland. Their u20 side just beat us in December and just nilled England.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634585#Comment_118634585

I never said they look like they are trying to build something. I'm just giving an honest assessment on what's coming through.

Give me your opinion on Lucchesi, Canone, Lamaro, Barney, Garbisi, Mori and Menoncello?

Digifriendly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634923#Comment_118634923

Do you not mean Italy lost narrowly to England in the U20s 6 Nations as there has not been a U20s RWC since 2019 due to Covid?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636327#Comment_118636327

yes thanks, covid has my years all fecked up.. 2019 still feels like last year to me

ionadnapokot

Good article here on the structures in Italian rugby

https://leonifuori.wordpress.com/2022/02/15/dissecting-the-italian-rugby-movement/

ionadnapokot

I see Tuilagi is back for England. Marvelous. He's never lost to Ireland.

I expect Jones will revert to Max power against us again. Lawes at 6 and the 6 forwards on the bench.