Leaving Cert 2022 and whingeing students

The LC might be flawed but it's the best of any options we have. If people want to shout 'change', they need to have a decent idea of what it'll achieve, and how it will work. Just pushing continuous assessment won't solve anything. The LC is a leveller as such, coming from a DEIS school myself, it definitely evened out the field for me.

The reality is, rote learning type exams are a big part of college courses too - ending up in first year in college exams having never sat a decent exam won't do any good either.

I don't get the push for a hybrid model. All it will do is increase grade and points inflation again, and you'll have a cohort of the same people in the OP devastated that they missed out on their course because it went up another 50 points. Widening the exam papers, giving more choice, and being flexible with students missing exams is surely the least worse option for this year?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505068#Comment_118505068

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505542#Comment_118505542

You all said it better than I could’ve.

For me, the calls for a hybrid exam just seem so selfish to me being a LCer this year. Because most people that I’ve talked to in my year that have been for it, simply say that they don’t want to sit the exams or that they want to maximise their points. To me none of those reasons are remotely valid… they want to breeze through the year while making it exceptionally more difficult for hard working students aiming for high points courses.

Then you have politicians entertaining their calls and demanding hybrid exams without a care for what happened with points these past two years, the effect of teacher biases and you grades being based on non standardised tests aka not on an equal level field. Simply to get votes from 18 year olds or future 18 year olds.

I feel like everyone has genuinely lost their minds and it’s so frustrating.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504649#Comment_118504649

Does it? I don't think we should be deluding ourselves too far in this regard.

Some multi nationals have located in Ireland for a whole raft of reasons.

Many other states are very competitive in terms of educational attainment.

As in we also like to think of ourselves as one of the friendliest tourism destinations - hog wash too.

gibgodsman

They should absolutely be made sit the exams, while it is absolutely unfortunate the school cycle these students have had to live through,

Going to college without ever have sat a Leaving cert or a Junior Cert is a making for disaster, College is basically a Leaving cert style exam every 6 months for either 3 or 4 years.

steddyeddy

On the human side I do think the LC puts too much unnecessary stress on people for too little relevance to the university courses they have to get into. I'm in favor of making it easier when needed.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504894#Comment_118504894

But that would be the same no matter what method of assessment there is?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504265#Comment_118504265

Oh, it's a "fact" is it...? I love when people throw that word about and not ecpect someone to come along and ask them to prove it!

Anyway. Prove it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504649#Comment_118504649

It is (or was) mostly is a memory test - I'm one of the people who got good grades based on memory rather than hard word and i'm probably pretty average when it comes to brightness and intellgience. Certainly got better grades than I deserved (bar one).

The problem I have with it is that it's based purely on the intellect and I - like a lot of poeple probably - have met some very inteelectual people who were complete idiots when it came to practical uses and employment.

Anyway. Not decrying the system - that's for another thread - but I'd be of the opinion that the mental health issues of teenages should definitely be taken seriously and not dismissed as being wokey or snowflakey. As they should in any other demographic, I suppose.

At the end of the day, mental health is not just about handing stress and well and working hard, especially if you have underlying personality disorders or social or family issues.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506120#Comment_118506120

Here you go

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/grade-inflation-set-to-end-for-next-year-s-leaving-cert-says-foley-1.4668643#:~:text=Average%20grades%20achieved%20in%20higher,the%20normal%20pre%2Dpandemic%20grades.&text=Grade%20inflation%20has%20also%20penalised,year%20or%20in%20recent%20years.

Leaving Cert grades look set to return to more normal levels in next year’s exams, down from record highs of the past two years.

So what's the common denominator in the last 2 years of exams? Teachers giving assessed grades. Teachers no longer giving assessed grades = grades reduce.

How else would you explain the higher grades in years when there's teacher assessed grades? And this at a time when we have people in this thread telling us students are more anxious, stressed etc...which you would expect to translate to poorer grades?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506279#Comment_118506279

Correataion is not causation - article does not say why grades were higher (not disagreeing with your theory, just saying this doesn't prove it. And it doesn't matter whether I can put forward an altenate throry or not - this is enough to dispute the idea that it's a "fact" - it's not.

airy fairy

Would love to know where the vast choices and less work and dumbed down versions of exams (as seem to be claimed here) are in the 2022 leaving cert as opposed to the optional 2021 leaving cert, because from what I understand, they are basically the same.

To be upfront, I don't know what the answer is and what is the best route. Points seem to be the big issue here, not the exams as such. Kids want to compete like for like as the 21 LC year. A large amount have deferred, the inflated grades 21 to this year, so less places. Kids getting 625 points and still ending up in a lottery to get a college course.

If the dept came out and said they'd revert back to the points from 2020 in all courses, or thereabouts, then I think a huge stress and burden would ease and the predictive grades call would stop. Maybe!

joseywhales

I have huge sympathy for those taking the leaving cert any year but it is necessary. It's not just a memory test either, it's tests your ability to create a plan, organize and perform when it matters most. Ability to cram certainly helps, I've been cramming all my life, crammed my way through a science degree and an msc and my professional life. Cramming is not easy. You have an internal clock counting down and you've got to get through all the material and test yourself as you go. The lc was tough though, the breadth of all the subjects and the fact you have like 7-8 exams in two weeks was a nightmare, I do have sympathy but it's gotta be done.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506440#Comment_118506440

Everyone knows it's got to be done.

But can you explain how does a student know what course to even apply for, when they've changed dramatically in a year, say 500 in 2020, 580 in 2021....what is it going to be this year? The same 580 and places went to a lottery?

I don't think students are looking for an easy way out, but they want it fair. Which is only right.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506420#Comment_118506420

You (and most people apparently) don't understand how points work. That's a huge issue. It has nothing to do with the Department.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506338#Comment_118506338

So it's just coincidence that we've had record grades in the 2 years the exam format was different?

What other reasons could there be?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506502#Comment_118506502

When I did the CAO you could put 10 options in both level 7 and level 8 courses. That means 20 possible courses.

You're always told put the course you want no.1 even if you think you mightn't get the points.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506510#Comment_118506510

It hasn't been 2 years. Far less 625 points gained in 2020 as opposed to 2021.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506507#Comment_118506507

Oh I know.

But ultimately the dept can instruct where the points are decided.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506510#Comment_118506510

Could be. I'm not goign to say it's "fact" though unless I can prove it.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506542#Comment_118506542

No. They can't. It's decided based on supply and demand.

Gatling

Just give them all 700 points and no access to college places and a voucher for a happy meal

Icsics

LCert needs to run, yes there was disruption so exams have been amended & orals moved to Easter. Amend exams again if necessary, but another year of inflated grades will overheat the CAO!

History Queen

Just to explain the points system briefly.

Course A has 3 places.

In 2019 5 people apply for places.

1x 600 points 2x 525 points and 3 x 500 points. The three highest points are offered places. The lowest number of points offered a place on that course was 525 so thats the course points for 2019.

In 2020 5 people apply for places on same course.

1×600 points 4x 625 points

4x 625 points people areput in to a hat and the first three drawn out get places. Same course is now a 625 course with an asterisk saying that 625 doesn't guarantee entry.

The reverse can also happen. (Points go down)

2x 300 points 1x450 points and 3x 200 points apply for the course. Top three points get in so course is now a 300 point course.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506574#Comment_118506574

And do you know how they determine supply and demand?

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506681#Comment_118506681

Just explained above

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506688#Comment_118506688

That's a simplistic way, and not realistic. Obviously, you've been told that, as a secondary school teacher, however, the reality of how points are determined in college courses are a bit different!!!!

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506716#Comment_118506716

I simplified the numbers for ease of explaining. But that is how the points system works.

I'm confused about what "reality" you are referring to and where you are getting this information? Please explain.

Jequ0n

This is heartbreaking.

Almost as heartbreaking as those adults who continue to struggle with their workload because they need to spend more time with their offspring.

I am longing for the day when these constant Covid excuses can’t be used any more. It will be interesting to see what excuses will be conjured next to justify underperformance.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

So another who thinks mental health is a myth?

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506338#Comment_118506338

Correlation may not be causation, but when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains must be the truth.

Unless you're maintaining that the last two cohorts of students just happened to be uniquely talented beyond any we've ever seen in history, then it is indeed a fact that their teachers overestimated the grades they would have achieved.