Advertisement
Boards are fundraising to help the people of Ukraine via the Red Cross at this horrific time. Please donate and share if you can, you will find the link here. Many thanks.

Census 2022 question on religion

24567

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i mean this in positive way - you're probably not the person for whom the census is being worded. the goal of the census is (should be) to get people to provide correct information. if that means there's what is technically redundant text in the question, so be it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ Michael Nugent


    We didn't get what we wanted but there is an improvement in the direction that we wanted. That's generally how lobbying plays out in practice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ Michael Nugent


    Here is some historical context. Using the way the census office categorises the figures, this includes those who ticked no religion and those who wrote in the words atheist or agnostic. It does not include those who did not answer the question.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,844 ✭✭✭✭ osarusan


    I guess that something like 'Do you identify as a member of any religion?' would have been better, but the change in the wording question, and the promotion of the 'no religion' check box to the top position both seem like improvements to me.

    I don't see the new question as anything that will confuse people really.

    I guess there is an argument that maybe people will simply opt for the first response option, and thus increase the 'no religion' numbers, but that's a problem with any survey - respondents never care about the survey to the extent that the creators of the survey do. And tbh if people's faith is at the stage where they will check a 'Methodist' box but are not bothered to actually write the word 'Methodist' I think it says something about the strength of their religious belief.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    [Breezy1985] You are clearly just upset that the atheists got something they wanted.

    Moderator note - claiming that your fellow posters are "just upset" neither contributes to civil debate nor adds to the position you're putting forward. Please cut those kind of comments out.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,960 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato



    You are not being too literal, you are being not literal enough... the question says "if any" and the next line says "mark one box only". So everybody should be ticking one box. IIRC the enumerators are supposed to ask people if they left a question blank whether that was intentional and give them the opportunity to complete it if not.

    AI had a similar (but not the same, obviously) graphic for the last census. It was certainly needed then as having 'no religion' not only below all the other tick-box options, but below the 'other' write-in box was totally ridiculous. Even before the last census, 'no religion' was the second most popular answer to this question (and has been since 2002) so there was no way it should have been at the bottom.

    It's a good thing to make people aware that the question is intended to reflect their current beliefs / views and not simply the religion they were raised in. That perception is definitely still out there among some.

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭ AyeGer


    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ Michael Nugent


    Yes, the current belief part is very important to convey. Atheist Ireland will be circulating this graphic between now and the census.





  • Registered Users Posts: 25,960 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Unfortunately a lot of adults these days are forced to live at their childhood address!

    Hopefully the "head of household" (what a 19th century concept) won't be ticking the religion box on their behalf

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,325 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    The concept is gone - replaced by "Person 1", meaning the first person listed on the form as residing at the premises. Everyone else is asked to state their relationship to "person 1". Any resident can be listed as "person 1".

    As for "ticking the religion box on their behalf", that's not a problem unless they tick it inaccurately.

    And maybe don't raise this as an issue too much; it's not the intention, but it tends to create the impression that a significant chunk of the Irish unbelieving community are still living at home with Mammy and Daddy, and furthermore are doing so on terms that their families either do not know about, or cannot bring themselves to take seriously, their religious identification. This conjures up the impression of the stereotypical unbeliever as a postadolescent slacker who isn't even a household name in his own household.

    As I say, I'm sure that's not the intention (and, more to the point, I'm sure that's not the reality) but I have to confess that it's an image that is constantly presented to me by this particular line of argument.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,843 ✭✭✭ Grab All Association


    During the pandemic, I noticed a lot of people in Thurles who wouldn’t have been religious visiting the cathedral of the assumption. I myself am an atheist, but I love old buildings, architecture etc and regularly visit this cathedral and others around when I’m travelling the country. Noticed an increase in attendance, people praying in the pews. I wouldn’t be surprised if the number of Catholics hasn’t decreased much or a very small increase of followers this census.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,325 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    Actually, I'm expecting the opposite. If there are more people going to churches, my guess is that these are people who would have been ticking the Catholic box anyway. They'll be more than offset by people who gave up their churchgoing habits during the lockdowns, find they don't miss them and haven't resumed, and may reconsider their religious identification/affiliation.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl



    I suspect a generational effect is also starting to come into play. There are an increasing number of people of voting age who are second generation atheist or agnostic, with slim likelihood of many, if any, of their own children ever taking up religion (e.g. my two little heathens, both of voting age, are 3rd generation atheists). The days of an effective Catholic church ban on contraception are also long gone, which historically had been a mechanism for bolstering the relative strength in numbers. Given the sparsity of vocations and priests in general, there is little to attract a younger generation to the church. Pushing religion through the primary school system is probably the last thing propping up the church in this country and even that is flagging due to indifference to religion among both staff and families. Lockdown hasn't just meant fewer people going to church, it has also meant younger kids not receiving religious instruction in school. I'd imagine the effect of the latter will be larger than the former, though not felt for a few more censuses yet.

    I don't doubt the number of people identifying as non-religious will grow, likely in similar or increased proportion to previous years. Be interesting to see relative changes in denomination for those who are religion and also in ethnicity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ Michael Nugent


    I agree that the "head of the household" filling in the census form for everybody can distort the figures. But if you want to answer the personal questions privately, you can ask for an individual census form and a confidentiality envelope. They don't publicise this as they don't want too many people doing it, but it is an option.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭ crossman47


    My God (hope that doesn't offend you), you're trying hard to maximise your numbers. Its almost like a political campaign for votes and that should not be a way to approach a Census.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Just off a meeting in work there with about 10 people. One of the guys brought this up while we were shooting the breeze. As soon as he got off the call the rest of them said they were going to tick RC just because yer man was so militant about the Athiesm thing. And everyone at that meeting was an Athiest. Its the Athiest preaching now thats getting worse than the churches preaching.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Yeah, that would really stick it to the so-called preaching atheists if people tick the.. um... actually preaching from the pulpit box.

    Seriously, talk about childish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    This is where its going though. You should have heard him. He sounded like the priest telling me I would go to hell back in the day :)



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    So what?

    Ticking the RCC box isn't sticking it to Atheist Ireland - it's sticking it to every non-Roman Catholic in Ireland.

    And very childish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,296 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    somebody who thinks along those lines should'nt be allowed access to sharpened pencils.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭ crossman47


    What financial support does the Catholic church get from the state? The state supports schools with a catholic ethos as it does all other schools.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    88% percent of National Schools have this 'ethos'.

    Now I could give you chapter and verse on how the RCC acquired control and eventually possession of the original national schools in the late 19th century (with supporting documents) but I have a hospital appt, the important thing in the 21st century is that this country is supposed to be a Republic with a Constitution that states the State shall endow no religion. 88% of our National Schools is a hell of a lot of endowing.

    Haven't time to go into Secondary schools, healthcare facilities etc etc. But we are planning on building them a great big hospital.

    You complained it was being made political - well, surely you would have no objection to a person's religious beliefs being personal and something that happens outside school hours, not during facilitated by State employees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭ crossman47


    I would have no objection at all to religion being taught outside school. in fact it would make for a stronger core of catholics with a real interest as opposed to those who just use it for a few rituals. But I still did not get an answer to my question. What support does the state give to the catholic church - the answer is none. The state funds catholic schools as it does all other schools. And the state is not building a hospital for the catholic church. It is building it for all its citizens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭ Choochtown



    If I owed the state 1.3 BILLION euro as redress for institutional child abuse and didn't pay it, I'd consider it financial support. Wouldn't you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭ Choochtown



    ...Back to the original post and a big "well done" to Atheist Ireland for getting a very misleading question changed into a much fairer and more straightforward one and most importantly one which I think will give much more accurate results.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl


    I might also ask whether this institution was ideally suited to the education and care of the large majority of our younger children?



Advertisement