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BIK RATES FOR 2023!! CAREFUL!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Its 8 years and 160,000kms also plenty have done much higher - this was a taxi which fast charged multiple times a day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    I wonder what cars are available for immediate delivery on lease given the supply issues?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Little to no supply of anything. Long waits over 6/8 months for a couple of my colleagues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Interesting, I've a position offered to me and they're making a big deal about the company car. I don't know any specifics about how that works, I assume I'd be getting a new car I just don't know what they'd offered or how the BIK all works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭Damien360


    You need to look carefully at your mileage per year. If it’s small, you may be better off getting your own car and getting the civil service rate for actual mileage driven. That way you have no BIK. It’s a balancing act whereby it makes more sense to get a fleet car if you do a lot of mileage. Value of the car when it’s fleet and it’s emmision band matters for actual coats to you. If you pay tax at upper rate, then whatever percentage you calculate, half the payment to calculate what comes out of your pay packet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    All I can work out is it'll be a hell of a lot of miles, 50k plus easily. I've been on the public sector rate for 5 years which is fine but after you leave the upper limits it turns to dirt and isn't worth it. Definetly needs to be a fleet car but I just don't know what car it'll be. I'll be in the upper rates as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Just praying I don't end up like this guy





  • Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If a brand is advertising now, in August when there's no big demand, they probably have something available. I've seen or heard Nissan, Skoda and Toyota ads. Skodas one was specifically stating they have some availabilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭Damien360


    50k plus is what I cover per year every year for the last 20 odd years. What’s the lease price budget ? Lease prices have gone nuts in the last few years. I look at cars as my toolbox. I want a comfy one but don’t want it to cost me money (that’s difficult to achieve now as I pay the difference between the allowance and the lease price). VW/Seat/Skoda kodiaq or it’s equivalent is comfy. Skoda Suberb is a mighty machine (last 2 were this) but it’s lease price was actually more than the kodiaq so it made no sense. Just about gets under the company lease price allowance for my level. Once you are over 52k per year mileage it fails to be a benefit and you need some comfort. Managers mileage has fallen off a cliff due to covid (customers happier online meetings) and it won’t rise back out so be aware of that. Either way you will be in a rental (paying BIK on that) until you eventually get your own order. That timeline is about 6 to 8 months right now. See if you can get the lease price incl vat pricing and not just the car value to guide you. Leaseplan have this but not sure about others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Thanks for that, it's all stuff I've never dealt with before do I have the week to decide.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 GC2022


    Hi,

    currently in process of changing my company car and wondering what is the best type of car to go for to help keep BIK lowish? Currently do over 52KM a year and looking at something that falls into band C of the emissions which will have the BIK 12%. Seems to be the best option unless going for a commercial 2 seater at 8%. Do plug in Hybrids have a lower Co2?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭Casati


    I can see a lot of company car drivers basically forced into commercial SUV's like Land Cruisers where they will be burning maybe twice the fuel of their current super efficient Octavia TDI/ 3 series/ Mondeo etc.

    Not ideal from an environmental perspective but I wouldn't be blaming somebody who can't afford these mad BIK rates



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    How many seats does it have? Tax Appeal Commission decision this week that such cars are not vans for BIK purposes meaning a much higher level of BIK. A 2 seater has not been challenged by any SUV based “commercials” with a second row of seats is now certain to attract full BIK and not the 5% applicable to vans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    2 seats, am I goosed so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    A better argument for a 2 seater than a 4/5 seater but you are not safe.


    The question is wheteher it is a car, being

    “car” means any mechanically propelled road vehicle designed, constructed or adapted for the carriage of the driver or the driver and one or more other persons other than...a van


    or a "van" being

    “van” means a mechanically propelled road vehicle which—

    (a) is designed or constructed solely or mainly for the carriage of goods or other burden,

    (b) has a roofed area or areas to the rear of the driver’s seat,

    (c) has no side windows or seating fitted in that roofed area or areas, and

    (d) has a gross vehicle weight not exceeding 3,500 kilograms.


    Not sure what you srue buying exactly but it is clear that a Transit, Sprinter etc was designed and constructed for the carriage of goods or burden. CAr derived vans such as a Disco were conceived of as passenger vehicles and in most cases have to be modified to carry goods other than as an ancillary matter (the opposite of "solely or mainly").



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    A 2 Seat LandCruiser qualifies for the flat 5%/8% BIK rate. They are registered as type N1 commercial vehicles, so there's no quibble over those.


    A 5 seat LandCruiser Business has never qualified as a Van for the flat rate of BIK as it has both seats and windows behind the driver. Same for 5 Seat Discovery models. If you've had a double cab pick up since before 2003 you might still be getting away with flat rate BIK, but since the changes to BIK came in to effect from 2003, all double cab pick-ups are subject to BIK at passenger car rates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭whizbang


    So guys, any ideas whats the most comfy 2 seat -Van or Car derived Van, out there ??



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Probably the Seat/VW/Skoda Tarraco/Tiguan/Kodiaq van version of the 5/7 seater. Unsure if those fall foul of the rules. I’ve seen the kodiaq version so it exists but they might not be on all of the lease suppliers list for availability. Certainly was not on Leaseplan’s. Seat Tarraco below on link.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Thanks Damien,

    Thats what im running now, except more than 3 times the seating.. and 20k more expensive..? (Not sure i believe that in 4x4 tho..)

    Time to go making moves..



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Currently, the only 2 Seat Commercials that can be ordered with any sort of decent lead time, are the LandCruiser and the Discovery.


    The LandCruiser is quite reasonable on a lease. The Discovery is fairly pricey, but currently available from stock.


    Horrendous issues with car / suv based commercials at the moment, and we found out on Friday that Kia and Hyundai won't be doing them going forwards, so that rules out the Sportage/C'eed and Tucson.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭RobertM


    Shocking selection of cars out there at the moment. 3 years ago a Skoda Superb with almost everything on it was around 48k, now it's at 52k for the 150hp diesel engine.


    In our company we got lucky that the owners are taking the hit and we were granted permission to order PHEV's, otherwise the new CO2 increase would've been too much to bear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭eusap


    Will you use the PHEV part? in the uk lots of company car drivers opted for these due to the lower CO2 but never charge the battery and just put more petrol in them which is having the opposite effect to reduce emissions



  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭RobertM


    It will probably be used in Hybrid mode 99% of the time to be honest with you. The company knows this as well. From our point of view though all we care is about less taxation, meaning those of us who are on a shorter trips for a month won't have to get up at the weekend just to drive somewhere to get the mileage up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭divillybit


    Had a company van for over 10 years, up until I changed jobs. Twas a great perk in fairness. Always thought I should have been paying some few bob in BIK as it saved me having to get a car of my own. But some of the BIK amounts mentioned in this article are steep enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    The worst effected people are those doing big mileage - really have to feel sorry for them as they do really need the vehicle for work.

    Due to the changes in the mileage bands some drivers have slipped out of the lowest BIK bracket, that was 6% and if they are driving something along the lines of a Tiguan Auto they could now be in the 22.5% bracket. Monthly net cost difference for a €45,000 vehicle in that case is around €280 a month more - totally unfair when the decision of what to order was made in 2019.

    Probably still the cheapest way of running a vehicle doing that sort of mileage, but a massive change compared to what people are used to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭hold my beer



    They made that choice in 2019 knowing the rules were changing. It's been flagged that long



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    No, they didn't.

    It was hidden in the 2019 Finance act, that was published on the 22nd December 2019. There was absolutely no mention in the October 2019 budget that there may be any changes at all - the Government just put it in the Finance act when it was published.

    It wasn't common knowledge until recently. I only discovered it in Feb 21 when I had to go digging through legislation to try and figure out what the changes were for Electric Vehicles.

    Usually, 2019 vehicles would be changed this year at the latest, but due to supply issues there's going to be drivers who were due change in January (who would have ordered vehicles over a year before the change in legislation was silently released), that are going to have to stay in their current vehicles, or walk, for the next 6 months +

    It's nigh on impossible to get something with low emissions, in a reasonable timeframe. Full EV or Diesel aren't too bad (if the budget is there), but there's hardly anything PHEV available, and PHEV is the only option for someone doing 35,000km a year or more, who wants to get in to a low BIK bracket - unless it's commuting to / from the office - they at least can go full EV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    There's an article from 2018. It's been known for ages. Reading back, I think we're talking about different things. I was talking about the phasing out of a favourable rate for EVs. You're talking about rates increasing based on emissions. Apologies, completely misread you.





  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    That article is purely about electric vehicles under €50,000 - nothing at all to do with the introduction of the Co2 bandings as part of the BIK calculation from the start of this year, which hasn't been known for ages.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    That’s actually false ROR. The CO2 banding for BIK to apply from 1 January 2023 was included in Finance Bill 2019 which was first published on 15 October 2019 before being signed into law in December 2019.


    Even before that it had been highlighted in the Tax strategy Papers produced in July 2018 - see page 16 onwards of the document at the link before. There was ample opportunity for employers, leasing/fleet companies and others both to appreciate the proposed changes and either to lobby or position their fleets accordingly.

    As regards the penalisation of high mileage users, it is open to anyone to ask their employer to prohibit private use of the car and thus have no BIK. Whether the person is a high business mileage or a low business mileage user doesn’t really impact on the value they get from private use.


    https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/4448/131218111625-831f2d14259b4483b63ecffc7c4c0133.pdf#page=null



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