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Vertical wind turbines?

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  • 08-01-2022 11:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭


    Is there a reason we don't have the same push for microwind as we do for solar? Quick Google gives a 2kw vert turbine for just over a grand (https://www.tesup.ie/product-page/atlas20-48v-2kw-wind-turbine-IE) (apologies if link is not allowed) - potentially 48kwh on a perfect day, but more importantly, not restricted to sunshine, typically windier in winter when solar output is lowest too? So even it was trickling along at 10kwh a day on average it would surely do a huge amount in terms of knocking down the electric bill in lots of houses? Coupled with solar would be even better too?


    Or what am I missing?



Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Planning laws make it almost impossible to operate in an urban area. Needs to be as far away from your perimeter as it is high (so basically if it fails it won't land in the neighbour's garden).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    decided to look for a review of that model from someone who is not a supplier

    you might want to look at this guy's experience!

    I've always heard that micro-wind is a waste of time and money

    Wind is a "scale" thing

    solar works out cheaper on all fronts, even in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Is that not just "normal" turbines though, not vertical ones? I could mount one on the gable of my house, it'd be a metre, metre and a half above the ridge line, so no risk to neighbours



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    I didn't do any research on specific, was just the first example I saw a price and dimensions



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    +460 for an inverter too.

    Drawback is that the startup speed is 4m/s which is 14km/h, although will generate down to 3m/s

    Then mounting/clearance from neighbours etc becomes issues.

    I have thought about it too. But realistically I'd need to actually go and measure the wind where I'd put it.

    Vertical do tend to deal better with less clean air than traditional turbines.

    Sure it's rated for 2kw. But what does it need to get that power... Or what does it actually generate at start up speeds.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Yeah, I'd be a huge fan of wind in principle. We'd a good discussion on wind and some variations on the turbines.

    Ridgeblade Wind Turbines — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

    Sadly the physics just isn't there in an urban setting in Ireland. Air (despite what you think) is too turbulent down around your typical urban height. You need to go up about 60 ft, and then it becomes pretty good apparently. With the zoning laws in Ireland it would be ... problematic.

    If I lived out in the countryside though, I'd have on in I reckon (horizontal) that is. Vertical axis ones are simplier but don't have the same production as the horizontal ones.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Power curve, it generates 3 phase ac, then the charge controller rectifies it to DC, then either a battery is charged or sent to an inverter.

    It's quite big too. 1.2*1*1m.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭idc


    I got a weather station last Christmas just for keeping track of wind speed. Now it is only 3.7m off the ground so most of the time it's never really fast enough. For last 3 months average was 2.8 m/s but I figure during January will get some longer pipe and see how it improves with height.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    May I ask what you got?


    my nearest weather station with wind data, Is malin head. But its always windy there! Red line is 4m/s - (average windspeed per day) - you can pull hourly windspeeds from met.ie too.

    Looking at the power chart, really you need to be getting 6-7 (grey line is 7) to generate anything decent.




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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Been looking for some sort of connected weather station for a while. (Rainfall mainly)

    And if I can pull the data out live (ish) I'll be able to estimate production, and account for day/night use too.

    Hopefully it might shine some actual numbers on wind. But as always it's location location location



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭idc


    They have loads of different versions with varying connectability! The unit i has wifi connection but that only allows me to link it to weather cloud or wundercloud. Not sure its possbile with my version to get a better live feed other that the display it comes with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    The MetEireann API will return the forecasted winds for you lat/long. E.g.

    http://metwdb-openaccess.ichec.ie/metno-wdb2ts/locationforecast?lat=53.27;long=-6.32       

    Which you can parse and extract out the windspeeds. Whatever about the solar radiation (which I've yet to validate with how the radiation forecasts compare to my own actual production) I know the wind forecasts are usually pretty good....at least within the forthcoming 24 hrs. Further out than 24hrs, the chaotic nature of the weather is harder to forecast, but all you need really is 12-24 hrs.

    We talked about it in the other thread, but if your "out da country" and have the ability to setup a 800-1000w turbine on a 20-30ft pole, I'd say for less than €2K you could get yourself a 500-800watt turbine up and running with charge controller hooked up to a battery bank. I'd imagine it would have a reasonable return on vestment, if not, it would still be a superb fun project. Surprised there aren't more people on here in rural areas who have one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭idc


    I'm on the border of urban/rural ! In housing estate yet over the back wall is endless fields!!! Hence why using my own measurements might make more sense!! Just need to make it a bit higher



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I know, it's the curse of a housing estate. Even borderline like you idc, I'd say you would struggle. Possibly not with the wind side of things, but the neighbors and/or planning laws. I'd love to give one a lash - but I think anything decent (say 500w) would have a rotor diameter of 2ft plus. Even a super quiet one the bearings rotating away for months at a time will wear out and a squeek or some noise will develop and the neighbors will (rightly) complain that it's keeping them awake at night. Or they'd just complain for the sake of complaining.....there's always one neighbor who's like that, isn't there? Then they be off to the council that the pole is too high for the plot of land out my back yard, etc.

    However, out in "proper" rural countryside with your nearest neighbor 200m or more away - ohh I'd be out with me shovel and spade digging the pit for the foundations no sooner than you could google "best wind turbine 2022" :-)



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Although looking on youtube, Theres a few videos on the tesup atlas 2.. Not one of them good. All with failures, Belts breaking, vanes been torn off etc.

    uyou'd forgive one, but if multiple people have put it up, and then months later have failures.

    As for a big turbine? id be better off going more panels and more batteries!



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭idc


    Interesting will have to google that, as i usually end up on the Tesup webpage when I occasonally check out what turbine options are available should i ever be mad enough to install one in my urban setting!!!



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    For reference, this is the inverter that Tesup use : If someone wants to ali express it :D

    https://pvshop.eu/Groowatt-MIC-2000-TL-X ,

    Note the startup voltage is also 50v



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,237 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!



    I'm the same. Had a vertical axis wind turbine on top of a 6m pole. It doesn't work. Forget about it, unless you live in an area on a top of a hill where you can install a tall mast (>20m)



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    While not vertical turbines, Toys For Watts might be of interest to those here. He also had a Atlas turbine but that didn't end well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMYw8MrKVPo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dathi




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    That seems to describe horizontal rather than vertical though (6m diameter, clearances between ground and "lower tip")



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,237 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Don't even think about attaching it to your house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    I won't, just thinking out loud.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I've posted this a few times previously, but for those of you who haven't seen this.....got to admire the lads skills.

    Building A 3 kW Off Grid Wind Turbine - Build Guide & Plans In The Description! - YouTube

    How he builds the turbine blades out of fiberglass ....... yeah, pure skills.

    To the OP, sadly as mentioned can't see it anywhere a runner unless you live out in the sticks. You will very likely not get the rated power output, but that's ok if you are getting 500w off a 1Kw turbine it's still 500w supplementing your solar in the winter. But the challenges of neighbors, planning permission laws etc make life difficult in ireland.



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