Why can't we get e-pickups here?

MakersMark

GM unveiled a 400 mile range full size Chevrolet Silverado today, starting at $40k.

For that money were lucky to buy a used Nissan Leaf here.

Ford have the Lightning, and the Rivian trick gets fantastic reviews (albeit a $65k truck)

Why is the situation so crap here?

I'd kill for an electric Navara, Ranger or Amarok .

ELM327

I'd love the option to buy any of the the US pickups here.

Rivian, Ford, GM etc only take reservations from US + CA.

Atlantic Dawn

Pickup market in Europe is tiny, the RHD market even smaller again. They could be an interesting import with the electric motor attracting low tax.

The F150 Lightning will be a huge seller in the US.

zg3409

A couple if diy options.

You can hack a model 3

https://youtu.be/jKv_N0IDS2A

Or start from scratch

https://youtu.be/1IA48k0kVfw

But the main reason they probably don't really exist is that they require a relatively large battery and that was mega cost in the past and efficiency of the shape would be low meaning real world range would be low. That said it's do able now, but as said right hand drive and limited demand mean even tesla has not bothered yet. Very big batteries on long trips means longer charging stops too, and many chargers are limited to 50kW.

A good few defenders have been converted to EV by DIY or specialists but prices are eye watering. There is one owned on a Dublin reg, with an eniskerry company has a demo gold coloured vehicle probably on UK plates.

https://www.studioava.com/arctic

They have a team here linked to Wales based Electric Classic cars. Here you can get certified for EV tax, but you may not be able to get half price tolls nor grants toward purchase. Many only have 22kW max charging rate but CCS is starting to become optional.

So only obstacle is your budget.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432496#Comment_118432496

I'd be fine with an LHD (have had a few US yokes already) but you just can't buy them here new at all. You can buy grey imports via the UK - where there are specialist american vehicle dealers selling new vehicles- but since brexit you'd be paying 2 lots of VAT, once from US to GB and then again from GB to IRL.

I've imported from the US directly before, classics and commercials , In a few years I'd say I'd be going down that route as it doesnt seem we're gonna get any native EV pickups here.

UID0

The US e-pickups have weights above 3500kg, so couldn't be driven on a B licence. The Silverado is expected to have an empty weight of over 3400kg, and a payload of about 590kg. The F-150 is a similar empty weight, but with a payload of 700kg. They are about 20cm wider and 60cm longer than the Navara, Ranger or Amarok.

There isn't really a market in the EU for heavier pickups being used as private motor vehicles. Driving licence requirements in the US allow these to be driven using a standard driver's licence (I just checked the state of Michigan as an example, and the requirements there are for a Commercial Driver's Licence are if you are commercially driving a vehicle/combination with a weight rating exceeding 26000 lbs. If the vehicle is being driven exclusively for carrying personal possessions or family members, then there is no weight limit). To drive the heavier pickups here requires a C licence, limiting the market.

The cost of developing/certifying for the EU market is obviously not worth it to the manufacturers given the number of potential sales they would estimate. If it made financial sense for them to sell them here, then they would.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432844#Comment_118432844

Yes, the 1500 class can be driven on a car license. Usually the 3/4 ton and 1 ton (2500/3500) are 4 and 4.5-5 k kg in terms of GVWR.

My F250 for instance had an empty weight of 3100kg, a GVWR of ~4000kg, and was downplated after I imported it to have a GVWR of 3500kg or bang on the nose for a b license. Whereas my GMC Sierra 1500 had a GVWR from the factory of about 3250kg.

I'll be getting a c license (already have the learner permit) as I suspect the cybertruck may need it.

UID0

The Silverado EV has two versions released. The WT is the base model with 250-300 miles range (so probably 100kWh battery) at $40k + destination charges, and the RST with 400 miles range (200kWh) battery pack at $105k + destination charges. The platform is the same platform as the Hummer EV and the Cadillac Lyric. The lower range one will have a weight similar to the F150 Lightning, so an empty weight of around 2900-3200kg, which is more than the equivalent ICE due to the weight of the batteries. This will push its GVWR above 3500kg, but it could be downplayed to 3500 on import (if desired).

The Silverado isn't available to order yet. There were refundable $100 pre-orders available on their website yesterday, with no guarantee on delivery timeframe, but they sold out in 12 minutes. It won't be until next year that the trucks can be ordered. The currently released dates are for the WT to arrive starting Spring 2023 and the RST arriving Fall 2023, with the rest of the range arriving in 2024/2025.

I think you have plenty of time to get the C licence before the Cybertruck arrives.

ELM327

Just coming back to this thread with 2.5 updates.

1 - C licence not needed for slightly heavy EV pickups, there is an exemption allowing up to 4.25t EVs to be driven on a car licence. (Alternatively fuelled vehicles with a MAM1 exceeding 3,500 kg. but not exceeding 4,250 kg)

2 - Ford have started selling the F150 Lightning in Europe, small release in Norway and switzerland. Notably, these cars are shipped from the US to germany and then converted to EU spec there. Kris Rifa (EV youtuber in Norway) recently released a couple of videos showing that the in car navigation and menus etc are in norwegian and work. They also convert the car from CCS1/NA to CCS2/Europe and type1 AC to type2 AC.

3 - Re 2 above, retail price for the standard range (97kwh, but the range is very limited, seems about 250km on a good day) is just north of 100k EUR in Norway. Wonder if we'll ever see them here? For myself, a grey import from Norway would be a lot easier than a grey import from the US, but I wouldnt want the standard range really, and if they are actually going to be sold here I'd prefer to buy from a dealer obv.

ELM327

Actually there are already examples for sale of the bigger battery in Norway already

https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=336282842

MJohnston

Pickups in general are not popular in Europe, never mind electric ones. Too big and bulky for our narrow streets, too heavy, and why would you bother when small panel vans exist? There's the weather factor too.

You've got electric Berlingos, Partners, Combos, even the iD Buzz Cargo. More practical for most purposes, and certainly significantly less misanthropic than most pickups seem to be.

ELM327

Pickups are becoming more and more popular. Plenty of ranger raptors on the road now for instance, and where I live (rural wexford) there's a good 50:50 split between farmers having a Trooper type jeep vs a Navara type pickup. The venerable L200 and Hilux are very popular out here too.

You can't carry a sofa or a bale of hay in an e berlingo and you'd get stuck in a field trying to do so. Even beyond the issue of space, I buy chicken feed and the likes for our flock in smaller bags than I'd like to (costing me more money) and carry it the rest of the way in a wheelbarrow, whereas if I had a pickup with an open back and four wheel drive I could simply reverse into the store and buy a 500kg bulk on a pallet, and drop it directly into my feed store.

Same with straw used for livestock bedding, much easier in a pickup than a van to collect and distribute.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033994#Comment_122033994

True but you don't need (you may want) a Ranger Raptor to convey your chicken feed and straw to your chickens😄 Am I correct in thinking that a 5 seater pick up, including the high performance petrol raptor, is still treated as commercial while the 5 seater suvs have fallen fowl🤣 of this tax exemption. If so its no wonder so many self employed and businesses are buying them and are fastidious with maintaining a pristine cargo bed

MakersMark

Thanks for the updates ELM.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034174#Comment_122034174

Oh it's 100% a want in my case. Absolutely. But the fact I can use it for a commercial purpose would allow me to buy and insure (and tax) it as a commercial.

The 5 seat N1 designation is harder and harder to get. I think on the raptor the load area doesn't strictly meet the definition for commercial N1 designation, however for now Revenue seem to be accepting them as N1 for both VRT and tax purposes. VRT is 13.3%. I have seen them on the goods rate of motor tax too.

Worth noting that the restrictions on 5 seat N1 are only on new registrations (either new new, or new registrations of used imported vehicles). Existing crewcabs are grandfathered in. I recently bought an XC90 for use on the farm, (taxed privately and insured privately with business use included) but during my search it was very easy to find 5 (and even 7!) seat N1 SUV for sale with commercial tax. The designation holds on change of ownership too, so once you qualify for commercial tax and insurance you can tax your 5 or 7 seat SUV at 333 p/a.

SmithySeller

Im curious as to why they are so popular when you still have to pay BIK on them if buying through the Company? Is it different rules for different sectors, i.e. Farms etc? Pickups/CrewCabs that is…

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034702#Comment_122034702

BIK is 8% on vehicles with N1 classification, much lower than private cars.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/finance/news/what-do-the-recent-bik-changes-mean-for-you-751080

kaahooters

Simple answer, there's no market for them here, and it's too costly to develop.

knockoutned

Is it easy to get insurance here on cars that are LHD and not classics?

MakersMark

Lots of noises coming from Oz about a BYD pickup called the Shark!

I'd buy one!

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122120906#Comment_122120906

It's a PHEV not a BEV.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2025-byd-shark-first-official-images/

Rivian will have the R1T later this year. Toyota are bringing a PHEV Hilux and Fisher are bringing the Kayak BEV in 2025

https://www.whatcar.com/news/every-pick-up-truck-coming-soon/n25694

JohnC.

Kia have shown their first pickup recently, named Tasman. I'd not paid a lot of attention to it, but it seems it'll be ICE and hybrid at first, with BEV coming later. Unknown if it'll come here or even US. As the name suggests, it was designed primarily for Australia, and also Africa and Middle East.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033994#Comment_122033994

does the store not deliver?

AMKC

There was a electric pickup released here by Maxus I think but it was very expensive and not very good.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033856#Comment_122033856

Seen one of these at The NEVO Show earlier in the year. Horrible thing and far two big and dangerous for Irish roads. I hope no one ever gets to buy one here. No need for it. Normal pick ups here are big enough already.

poker--addict

If you are a farmer, or a builder, fair enough. There is not many other people who "need" these and they only serve to clog up narrow roads and parking spaces even more. More pedestrians will be killed if Irish roads get clogged with people needlessly buying obnoxiously large types imo. The ford range raport even makes a range rover look small.

As a bit of a TESLA fanboy my biggest grievance with them is the time and effort they put into the cybertruck, resource that could have gone into another practical car

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122041897#Comment_122041897

Yup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122118#Comment_122122118

Not every store, not conveniently, and I don't have enough room for a lorry to turn so sometimes this stops pallet deliveries.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129877#Comment_122129877

Yes the maxus one was crap, 2wd only and therefore completely useless.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130800#Comment_122130800

Ford Ranger Raptor is a midsize truck by US standards. It is as wide (2000mm without mirrors or 2200 incl mirrors) as a Range Rover. Neither are particularly large.

Having driven an 85 chevy suburban 2500 , that felt somewhat large on irish roads, but even that was not very wide as much as it was long.

Modern full size (IE half ton and above, think F150-F350) trucks are a lot bigger than a midsize raptor.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130800#Comment_122130800

My wife's Ford Smax is wider than my Navara.

Perhaps you should drive a Twizy?

😉😉😉

whisky_galore

Farmers, maybe but builders I don't know.

All your stuff is out in all weathers not to mention in plain view of the sticky fingered tribe who haunt building sites and look for marked vehicles. Theft and the weather are the two things not going for pick ups here.

creedp

The Ford Ranger Raptor is 560mm longer and 70mm wider than the smax, which is no small car in the first place

BailMeOut

mainly because of pedestrian protection regulation which none of the USA trucks can ever get in the EU.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164777#Comment_122164777

Lots of European countries sell brand new USA trucks with EU certification.

https://www.aeceurope.com/

thomas 123

I wonder how environmentally friendly a 5 seat Electric pickup really is?

Maybe cheaper to run for the user then a diesel alternative but surly on the balance of things the carbon emissions, the efficiency's lost due to weight, the actual manufacturing. 3.5 tonnes is a big big car.

smackyB

Just seen a Rivian pickup for the first time, driving through Dun Laoghaire. Big yoke, left hand drive. Can’t say I’d be comfortable driving it.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165839#Comment_122165839

Its a good alternative for people who were going to buying a new pickup truck anyway. I don’t think anyone is going to be selling their little Nissan Leafs to upgrade to one of these. The target audience would be people who would usually buy diesel pickup trucks every few years.

On a side note, if the truck is 3.5 tonnes like you say, you’ll need a C license and a taco graph if you load the truck with goods as it will be over 3.5 tonnes.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165839#Comment_122165839

The Rivian R1T mentioned below gets a 70MPGe combined rating from the EPA (based on US mpg), whereas the new Ford Ranger is estimated at 24MPG combined on the same cycle. That's a lot of savings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165870#Comment_122165870

Rivian is similarly sized to a ford ranger raptor. Hardly that big. The LHD aspect would be the most problematic. I've driven many american cars over here and one of the biggest was the model X I had.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165893#Comment_122165893

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165898#Comment_122165898

The intention is not to argue or be ill informed pro combustion engine, and I am sure if they can do it with buses they can do it for pickups - I just wonder if the maths stacks up, which from what User1998 is saying it may well do.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165893#Comment_122165893

you buy a pickup generally to tow and/or carry loads. Can you imagine the range pulling 3.5t behind you.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165957#Comment_122165957

The GMC Sierra EV has shown by TFL to have a range of 220+ miles while towing. A lot of towing rigs would need larger fuel tanks to go that far. I know my old 85 Suburban 2500 had a massive tank for that reason. 400+ miles unladen from a 7.4 v8 carburetted engine. Sometimes the solution is as simple as the Detroit solution of adding more fuel tanks, either with fossil fuels or batteries!

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165785#Comment_122165785

Sounds very bespoke and expensive

"EUROPEAN MARKET CONVERSION - AEC’s proprietary engineering lab develops high quality solutions that guarantee safety, durability and compliance with the European transport authorities."

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165870#Comment_122165870

Was it blue by any chance?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyBUffuMF-f/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyBUffuMF-f/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166209#Comment_122166209

They aren't at all, all that they do is change the rear turn signals and update to EU satnav. It's not a large process at all.

Plenty of Dodge dealers in the UK too, just not here.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165839#Comment_122165839

Probably as environmentally friendly as a big electric SUV like the iX, EQS or Q8 etron. Neither the electric SUV or electric pick up is being bought for it's environmental friendliness.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166028#Comment_122166028

a diesel 4x4 will a lot better, assuming 20l/100km when laden and a standard 80l tank.

tabby aspreme

Plenty of American pick up trucks in the Netherlands, with petrol at up to 2.40 a litre probably running on lpg

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166293#Comment_122166293

My old F250 7.3 V8 diesel had dual tanks, took c90-100 litres to fill both at least, from memory. Still wouldnt do better than 5-6mpg towing anything of significance. Compared to 18-20mpg unladen, she's literally getting 30% of the normal MPG, because its towing. This is the same for EV pickups.

smackyB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166270#Comment_122166270

yeah that was the one, only one working headlight still it would seem!

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166272#Comment_122166272

https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pickup-trucks-to-bypass-safety-and-environmental-regulations/

A group of European road safety and environmental organisations has voiced significant concerns about the growing number of American-market pickup trucks entering the European Union through a regulatory loophole. These trucks, notably the Dodge Ram, have been using the “Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA)” process to sidestep crucial EU safety and environmental regulations.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166871#Comment_122166871

I’m pretty sure you can import any car into Europe as long as its used? Theres an IVA in the UK for used imports but only applies to cars under 10 years old.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166871#Comment_122166871

You can import ANY car into europe once it's been registered at least 6 months and done at least 6k km.

I've done this a few times.

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166976#Comment_122166976

exactly. The OP was asking why these cars are not generally available and I pointed out that the dealers are not allowed to sell them due to pedestrian safety rules which USA does not have. Anyone can import one offs but you cannot have a dealership with selling new Dodge trucks (or the like). Same reason why the tesla truck cannot be sold in EU. You I assume can privately import one tesla cannot sell them