Why can't we get e-pickups here?

MakersMark

GM unveiled a 400 mile range full size Chevrolet Silverado today, starting at $40k.

For that money were lucky to buy a used Nissan Leaf here.

Ford have the Lightning, and the Rivian trick gets fantastic reviews (albeit a $65k truck)

Why is the situation so crap here?

I'd kill for an electric Navara, Ranger or Amarok .

ELM327

I'd love the option to buy any of the the US pickups here.

Rivian, Ford, GM etc only take reservations from US + CA.

Atlantic Dawn

Pickup market in Europe is tiny, the RHD market even smaller again. They could be an interesting import with the electric motor attracting low tax.

The F150 Lightning will be a huge seller in the US.

zg3409

A couple if diy options.

You can hack a model 3

https://youtu.be/jKv_N0IDS2A

Or start from scratch

https://youtu.be/1IA48k0kVfw

But the main reason they probably don't really exist is that they require a relatively large battery and that was mega cost in the past and efficiency of the shape would be low meaning real world range would be low. That said it's do able now, but as said right hand drive and limited demand mean even tesla has not bothered yet. Very big batteries on long trips means longer charging stops too, and many chargers are limited to 50kW.

A good few defenders have been converted to EV by DIY or specialists but prices are eye watering. There is one owned on a Dublin reg, with an eniskerry company has a demo gold coloured vehicle probably on UK plates.

https://www.studioava.com/arctic

They have a team here linked to Wales based Electric Classic cars. Here you can get certified for EV tax, but you may not be able to get half price tolls nor grants toward purchase. Many only have 22kW max charging rate but CCS is starting to become optional.

So only obstacle is your budget.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432496#Comment_118432496

I'd be fine with an LHD (have had a few US yokes already) but you just can't buy them here new at all. You can buy grey imports via the UK - where there are specialist american vehicle dealers selling new vehicles- but since brexit you'd be paying 2 lots of VAT, once from US to GB and then again from GB to IRL.

I've imported from the US directly before, classics and commercials , In a few years I'd say I'd be going down that route as it doesnt seem we're gonna get any native EV pickups here.

UID0

The US e-pickups have weights above 3500kg, so couldn't be driven on a B licence. The Silverado is expected to have an empty weight of over 3400kg, and a payload of about 590kg. The F-150 is a similar empty weight, but with a payload of 700kg. They are about 20cm wider and 60cm longer than the Navara, Ranger or Amarok.

There isn't really a market in the EU for heavier pickups being used as private motor vehicles. Driving licence requirements in the US allow these to be driven using a standard driver's licence (I just checked the state of Michigan as an example, and the requirements there are for a Commercial Driver's Licence are if you are commercially driving a vehicle/combination with a weight rating exceeding 26000 lbs. If the vehicle is being driven exclusively for carrying personal possessions or family members, then there is no weight limit). To drive the heavier pickups here requires a C licence, limiting the market.

The cost of developing/certifying for the EU market is obviously not worth it to the manufacturers given the number of potential sales they would estimate. If it made financial sense for them to sell them here, then they would.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432844#Comment_118432844

Yes, the 1500 class can be driven on a car license. Usually the 3/4 ton and 1 ton (2500/3500) are 4 and 4.5-5 k kg in terms of GVWR.

My F250 for instance had an empty weight of 3100kg, a GVWR of ~4000kg, and was downplated after I imported it to have a GVWR of 3500kg or bang on the nose for a b license. Whereas my GMC Sierra 1500 had a GVWR from the factory of about 3250kg.

I'll be getting a c license (already have the learner permit) as I suspect the cybertruck may need it.

UID0

The Silverado EV has two versions released. The WT is the base model with 250-300 miles range (so probably 100kWh battery) at $40k + destination charges, and the RST with 400 miles range (200kWh) battery pack at $105k + destination charges. The platform is the same platform as the Hummer EV and the Cadillac Lyric. The lower range one will have a weight similar to the F150 Lightning, so an empty weight of around 2900-3200kg, which is more than the equivalent ICE due to the weight of the batteries. This will push its GVWR above 3500kg, but it could be downplayed to 3500 on import (if desired).

The Silverado isn't available to order yet. There were refundable $100 pre-orders available on their website yesterday, with no guarantee on delivery timeframe, but they sold out in 12 minutes. It won't be until next year that the trucks can be ordered. The currently released dates are for the WT to arrive starting Spring 2023 and the RST arriving Fall 2023, with the rest of the range arriving in 2024/2025.

I think you have plenty of time to get the C licence before the Cybertruck arrives.

ELM327

Just coming back to this thread with 2.5 updates.

1 - C licence not needed for slightly heavy EV pickups, there is an exemption allowing up to 4.25t EVs to be driven on a car licence. (Alternatively fuelled vehicles with a MAM1 exceeding 3,500 kg. but not exceeding 4,250 kg)

2 - Ford have started selling the F150 Lightning in Europe, small release in Norway and switzerland. Notably, these cars are shipped from the US to germany and then converted to EU spec there. Kris Rifa (EV youtuber in Norway) recently released a couple of videos showing that the in car navigation and menus etc are in norwegian and work. They also convert the car from CCS1/NA to CCS2/Europe and type1 AC to type2 AC.

3 - Re 2 above, retail price for the standard range (97kwh, but the range is very limited, seems about 250km on a good day) is just north of 100k EUR in Norway. Wonder if we'll ever see them here? For myself, a grey import from Norway would be a lot easier than a grey import from the US, but I wouldnt want the standard range really, and if they are actually going to be sold here I'd prefer to buy from a dealer obv.

ELM327

Actually there are already examples for sale of the bigger battery in Norway already

https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=336282842

MJohnston

Pickups in general are not popular in Europe, never mind electric ones. Too big and bulky for our narrow streets, too heavy, and why would you bother when small panel vans exist? There's the weather factor too.

You've got electric Berlingos, Partners, Combos, even the iD Buzz Cargo. More practical for most purposes, and certainly significantly less misanthropic than most pickups seem to be.

ELM327

Pickups are becoming more and more popular. Plenty of ranger raptors on the road now for instance, and where I live (rural wexford) there's a good 50:50 split between farmers having a Trooper type jeep vs a Navara type pickup. The venerable L200 and Hilux are very popular out here too.

You can't carry a sofa or a bale of hay in an e berlingo and you'd get stuck in a field trying to do so. Even beyond the issue of space, I buy chicken feed and the likes for our flock in smaller bags than I'd like to (costing me more money) and carry it the rest of the way in a wheelbarrow, whereas if I had a pickup with an open back and four wheel drive I could simply reverse into the store and buy a 500kg bulk on a pallet, and drop it directly into my feed store.

Same with straw used for livestock bedding, much easier in a pickup than a van to collect and distribute.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033994#Comment_122033994

True but you don't need (you may want) a Ranger Raptor to convey your chicken feed and straw to your chickens😄 Am I correct in thinking that a 5 seater pick up, including the high performance petrol raptor, is still treated as commercial while the 5 seater suvs have fallen fowl🤣 of this tax exemption. If so its no wonder so many self employed and businesses are buying them and are fastidious with maintaining a pristine cargo bed

MakersMark

Thanks for the updates ELM.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034174#Comment_122034174

Oh it's 100% a want in my case. Absolutely. But the fact I can use it for a commercial purpose would allow me to buy and insure (and tax) it as a commercial.

The 5 seat N1 designation is harder and harder to get. I think on the raptor the load area doesn't strictly meet the definition for commercial N1 designation, however for now Revenue seem to be accepting them as N1 for both VRT and tax purposes. VRT is 13.3%. I have seen them on the goods rate of motor tax too.

Worth noting that the restrictions on 5 seat N1 are only on new registrations (either new new, or new registrations of used imported vehicles). Existing crewcabs are grandfathered in. I recently bought an XC90 for use on the farm, (taxed privately and insured privately with business use included) but during my search it was very easy to find 5 (and even 7!) seat N1 SUV for sale with commercial tax. The designation holds on change of ownership too, so once you qualify for commercial tax and insurance you can tax your 5 or 7 seat SUV at 333 p/a.

SmithySeller

Im curious as to why they are so popular when you still have to pay BIK on them if buying through the Company? Is it different rules for different sectors, i.e. Farms etc? Pickups/CrewCabs that is…

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034702#Comment_122034702

BIK is 8% on vehicles with N1 classification, much lower than private cars.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/finance/news/what-do-the-recent-bik-changes-mean-for-you-751080

kaahooters

Simple answer, there's no market for them here, and it's too costly to develop.

knockoutned

Is it easy to get insurance here on cars that are LHD and not classics?