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.22 LR Beginner operating range

  • 30-12-2021 2:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17


    What is a realistic range to zero and max range to use a .22 LR on a regular basis for rabbits/ foxes?

    Any advice for practice setups to get proficiency and comfortable appreciated. Waiting on a license for cz452

    Tagged:


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Mr Boots


    Also waiting on my license for a 10/22 takedown but from asking that question to shooters I know they say max 100m realistic range 50m it really is down to environment/landscape ur in and how much u practice



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    You zero it for the ammo that you use.. rabbits will be best harvested with subsonic which is on running at c1090 fps

    If you zero this at 60yards then the bullet will be 1inch high at 30yards and you'll be 1 inch low at 80ydsandnmaybe 2invhes low at 100.

    Foxes would have to be limited to head shots and not further than 60 yards..



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    Depends on your ability what distances you're able to go out to. For me, I have to be able to be 99% certain of a first shot clean kill before I shoot at anything live. Farthest bunny was approx 120 yards and farthest fox was approx 90 yards. Only ever hunt with subsonic ammo. 30+ years regularly shooting/hunting with .22lr. Great calibr if used within its' limits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    Rifle skills: the four principles - YouTube

    First thing to do is learn how to shoot by using the Marksmanship Principles, before you even think of shooting at an animal.

    When you can consistently shoot small groups at 50 m set up targets at different ranges say 75 and 100 see where your bullets land on the paper targets and record how much you have to dial on your turrets to hit the center of the target, if using the reticle on your scope record what mark line on your scope your using for each distance.

    By using the paper targets you will see your progress and know what distances you are capable of hitting small targets as you improve your skills.

    ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

    You can play about with Ballistic apps and they will give you an idea of how the bullet travels over distance. but any info gained from them has to be confirmed by you with live firing at paper targets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭JP22


    Zxthinger is spot on.

    Head shots on rabbit/fox, then you’re looking at rounds in a 3” circle. Think of the 3” as your max error, you need all shots at varying distances within the 3”.

    If you zero at 60/63 yds you’ll be slightly high/low but within the 3” from 30 yds to about 80 yds. You could shoot bunnies out to 100 yds but you’ll need an accurate rifle/scope/ammo + user combo. Note - you must use good quality ammo that your rifle likes.

    You should check out some ballistic calculators (google) for the type of 22 ammo you’re using.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Thanks I'll definitely be doing a lot of practice before moving to live quarry.

    Video is good I've seen a similar video on Shooting UK, that is the best resource I've found so far for information.



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    let us know how your getting on when you get your rifle, and enjoy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Will do... I'm like Homer Simpson at the moment waiting for the license. If I don't get it before end of January I won't have much time to do much until the summer but I'll keep ye posted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2





  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭JP22


    Soupy2.

    Best of luck with your license, they can take some time depending on where you live, some districts are super quick, other average and some others take forever. I handed in my renewal two weeks ago, had a phone call four days later requesting my club attendance record for past three years, someone is on the ball, happy days.

    You can’t really go wrong with a CZ452, modern CZ's have Brno dna in their construction. You have two options on scopes, spend the bucks and get a good new one or grab a good second hand one, choice is yours, it really depends on what type of shooting your going to do.

    For firearms, check out Rimfirecentral, plenty of RF categories and info available.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Quick one. I’m left handed while the rifle is for right handed shooter.

    should i just force myself to shoot right handed from the start or do people just use the left? Seems like it might be awkward reloading in the field



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Whole discussion there that is heavily debated lol

    Simple enough in this case though, just try both and see which you prefer.

    For preference I'll usually shoot all long guns left handed as it feels comfier, and heavily depending on the rifle you might find that easier, but definitely try righty and see does that work for you.

    More important is your eye dominance, which usually follows handedness but not always.

    Easy dominant eye test here:

    https://www.allaboutvision.com/resources/dominant-eye-test.htm


    As far as reloading goes again heavily depends on the gun.

    If you can only really effectively change mags from one side then that's your answer, but realistically in the field with a bolt action that isn't going to make a massive bit of difference, whereas in a competition where seconds count it can.

    As far as working the bolt there are several lefty friendly techniques out there.

    1 - Cycle the bolt with your right hand while using your left on fire control and to support the gun.

    2 - Reach over the bolt with your left hand leaving your right in place and work the bolt with the left.

    Again worth giving both a good try(20 rounds+ I'd say to get a feel for each), and right handed shooting to see which you feel might be better.


    Then if you get a semiauto in the future enjoy the relative ease of not having to deal with working the bolt as a lefty. 😉

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    There's a CZ lefty in the for sale section: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214366/for-sale-cz-22-lr-deluxe#latest

    Failing that I never found it an issue in the field using Dad's 452 for years. I got myself a lefty a good few years ago and it really makes no odds out after crows/rabbits. That'd be using a sling for support or whatever's available in the field. Where I find a disadvantage is shooting targets. Either standing, kneeling or prone I've to break my position to reload. On the other hand if using a bipod it makes little to no difference. In fact there's a right handed target shooter who advocates a left handed rifle in F Class.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Finally had the interview with the superintendent, went ok he was happy with my need etc. two things that stood out.

    He was very concerned about the moderator and may not approve. Stating the public wouldn’t know I was shooting if they couldn’t hear me. And the second was I’d have to notify all my neighbours when I go shooting at the start.

    do these make sense? I’d the moderator to protect my hearing and maintain awareness and don’t really want to be advertising I’ve a gun to all my neighbours. Have others heard of this before??



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,002 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Explain that a moderator reduces report from a shot but it doesn’t eliminate it. You could also present data on how loud it would be. To highlight its not silent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    You said 452, which model is it? If it's a Lux I wouldn't be overly concerned about a mod. I would be concerned about informing neighbors. I keep my shooting low key. I wonder what the crime prevention officers opinion would be on advertising gun ownership!?!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Yeah I would argue that informing all and sundry that you have a gun is a stupid idea and would make you a target, which is the opposite of what the Super should intend.

    That and as said already you can tell him that the mod reduces the sound but doesn't eliminate it, there are even videos on youtube which compare a suppressed to unsuppressed gunshot, along with a silenced 22 rifle being similar in sound level to an emergency vehicle siren:

    I add the infographic above to illustrate.


    Also, on the moderator, if it is refused for your purpose(hunting) and you suffer hearing damage as a result of being denied a silencer then I wonder would that open up grounds for a civil compensation case... :-P


    But regardless, the EU has published maximum sound level exposure values for individuals, here it is on the HSA site.

    An unsuppressed 22 rifle is ~140 db, which by itself is over the peak(maximum) sound pressure allowable for an individual. And certainly in situations where you cannot wear hearing protection(hunting being one, to maintain awareness), there is a requirement to reduce the risk of noise level exposure, which in this case the only method is a suppressor.

    Most EU countries in fact recommend or even require(the Scandinavian countries in particular) a moderator while hunting.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    My gun dealer said the same. Once I’ve the license if there’s a restriction On the mod that ppl go back and question on health and safety grounds and if they’re willing to accept liability for hearing damage which resolved the issue. The super just seemed to be really against them for some reason



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Unfortunately our system does allow for some ridiculous personal biases to be put forth as policy by Super/Chiefs.

    I was told by another shooter who had an interview for a firearm that in their(chief or super, don't recall which) view, the only people with guns in Ireland are hunters, people who have family heirloom guns, and criminals.

    So that means: no target shooters, no collectors, no-one bar those 3 examples.

    Needless to say one of the most ill informed and ignorant members of AGS out there, but in a position of power when it comes to something they personally dislike.

    Anywhere else that would be a horrendous conflict of interest, but there it is policy. 🙄

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,002 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The number is the graph are good. Highlight how audible it still is. Not like the movies.

    And it only reduces sound by ~20-25dB

    But just refer to the dB values. Don’t say much about one compared to the other, 20% reduction or anything like that. Decibels are non-linear. No need to get too technical.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭lefthooker


    It defies logic if the SI is so concerned about the public that he allows you to use a firearm but not a metal tube.😵‍💫

    Firstly you don’t need to notify people you’re going shooting, what reception do you think you’ll get if you start knocking on doors at 10 o clock at night to tell them you’re going lamping. Also as stated not a good idea to advertise you have a gun.


    Regards safety of the public, that’s akin to saying “that’s an ecumenical matter”

    You're also a member of the public, does your safety not matter??? You’re at the source of extremely high levels of noise and your hearing needs to be looked after. Don’t accept being told to wear ear defenders.


    Is your application in a southeastern county?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.




  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2




  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Finally got my license 6 weeks ago or so, very happy with the CZ. Moderator was not approved unfortunately. Had some initial success with the rabbits but they are now wise to me and stay well bunkered down after the first sighting.

    I called the F.O. and was told to wait a few weeks and send in a letter if I still needed the moderator. Has anyone experienced this or point me to a rough template for an effective letter? seems like my last opportunity to get one approved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Friend had a similar situation in past year. Garda dealing with it, as much as pleaded with him to defer the application for the mod until later.( No legal reasons, just to avoid crap from his boss???).

    Sent in his application after a few weeks of practicing and received it without further discussion??

    Some times you have to bang the desk, and other times bend with the breeze???

    He just used the standard letter, with the addition of. , As requested by yourself, at the start

    Good luck. Keep practicing.... And you will get sorted.... The rabbits will sus you even with a mod😂😂😂



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The refusal, was it over the phone or in writing? Any refusal, verbally, is meaningless. Demand a refusal letter as is your "right" under the firearms act. Sometimes demanding a refusal letter can persuade the issuing of it because if the refusal is verbal (and not even from the Super ) then its a way for the Super to refuse it without a record of it being, "wrongfully", refused.

    When I say wrongfully what I mean is if the Super cannot justify the refusal of the suppressor then they sometimes refuse it via a phone call so there is not written record of it being refused which means you cannot prove you were refused and have no letter of refusal so cannot appeal the refusal (through courts, etc).

    Get any refusal in writing, then we can formulate a better plan.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Soupy2


    Got approved for the mod.. sent in the letter a few months after my initial license approval.

    since the supers logic was the safety of the public My main point was no mod = daily shooting for prolonged periods vs with mod address a problem area in a short period and lock up gun. = better public safety.



    maybe with my first license they wanted to string it out a bit till I had some experience. Happy to be Sorted now anyway.

    thank you to those that provided any info.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Congrats and well done for following up.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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