The performance of Ministers during this crisis

Apothic_Red

Some sink, some fall, have your say

Personal disclosure, I'm a FG voter but have sympathies with MM.

Thought Leo did a good job early days, having a health professional in the Taoiseach role probably comforted many early doors.

Star performer went to Harris who seemed to carry on where he left off in the 8th debate. He was a clear communicator & that has proven to be a rare skill in politics these days.

The transition happened & MM inherited the malaise, Leo fell in line but obvious pokes at NPHET lowered his stock.

Finance seemed in good hands with Paschal & Micheal, there has been very little opposition to their approach, some may have argued it was too generous.

Covney, although not directly connected to Covid, still looks professional on the world stage, Zappone-gate noted.

Donnelly, after showing such promise in opposition, has become a David Brent type bumbling clown who is destined for the back benches once Leo does his re-shuffle. The sooner Harris is back in that portfolio the better, although I doubt he'd want Angola once the pandemic is over.

Foley has been handed a hospital pass, I don't envy her position but her ability to go missing is notable.

Sometimes I wonder who the backgrond teams are behind these levers of power, I know Chris Donoghue, ex morning show on Newstalk with Ivan Yates use to handle Paschal's PR brief but has since moved to Covney's team.

Finally, I'd say that Michael Martin has been trying his best through all this, I think he's a thoroughly decent individual. He has been fine treading the middle ground, makes you remember when they hounded Enda Kenny out early although history will rate him highly.

Share your own rating on Covid ministers below. Please don't take a swipe at other posters positions please.

opinionated3

I can't think of any politician in this country that's worthy of my vote the next time round. That should cover it ......

Dempo1

Personally there's not a single serving minister I'd rate at even average to be honest. I won't personalise it (albeit I'm tempted) but my god, there's been some astonishing ineptitude and incompetence.

Not helping is the shocking mixed messaging and in some cases , no messaging (education comes to mind), added to this is what I perceive as a deliberate attempt by one coalition partner to undermine the very government they helped form.

At a push, I'd give Michael Mc Grath a pass.

The leadership, frankly has been utterly appalling and I especially include the interim leadership prior to this government's formation.

Hellrazer

Have to agree with everyone so far. Im also a life long FG supporter ( well I was until 202)

For me the worst of it is the way we are treated like children. The ministers speak down to everyone from their "thrones"

Donnelly particularly has been the most condescending minister of them all. He never answers a question straight despite having reams of papers with him. Hes actually quite thick aswell. Remember he didnt know how many days were in June - not a sign of a good minister to make a mistake like that - some people thought it was just an "error" but the truth is hes a minister of health and shouldnt be making small mistakes like that.

Micheal is a blathering idiot who couldnt run a race - enough said about him.

Leo is an out and out liar - hes playing both sides so to speak - tells the electorate what they want to hear yet the next day someone else comes out and says the opposite.

My own local TDs have been useless - James Lawless actually emailed me back when I complained about the traffic on the n4 during the 1st lockdown - his response - maybe I should stay in work like he does until 8 o clock when theres no traffic.

The rest of them said it was a garda related matter and they couldnt get involved - when I said it was a health matter they all ignored me.

So overall - pretty **** government really.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224039/the-performance-of-ministers-during-this-crisis

The background teams behind the levers of power? You mean Civil Servants?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366923#Comment_118366923

That's ludicrous. Compared to the buffoon Boris Johnson and Donald "take bleach to cure Covid" Trump our Ministers look like models of good Government.

Cluedo Monopoly

They just took Norma Foley apart on Drivetime. She was spouting school positivity numbers yesterday that nobody can validate or understand.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367020#Comment_118367020

It is Ludicrous (this governments performance ) , I care not a jot about Boris or the UK government.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367021#Comment_118367021

Damn, missed that but I heard her yesterday talking about these miraculous positivity numbers, she was quoting 2/3% and yet schools reporting 20% to 30% absences, granted not all covid related but I smelled a rat yesterday and that too was a train crash of an interview, how this Lady is still in this job is frankly beggar's belief, the Irony being, she's actually a Teacher 🙄

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367039#Comment_118367039

So what exactly should our Government have done that you think wasn't handled properly? What fantastic examples of good practice can you give us from other countries that we should have adopted? Yes obviously they've made mistakes - most obviously the handling of nursing homes - but that's hardly surprising given the scale and rapidly changing and evolving nature of the virus.

elperello

I'm just thinking back to this day 2019 when we were getting ready for a normal Christmas and little did we know what was in store for us in the New Year.

If you had asked me then I would have had the usual complaints about politicians and ministers.

Now heading into our second Covid Christmas with this Government I am inclined to say they have done well.

Not spectacularly well but more than adequate to the task that fate landed them with.

No politician had the play book for this crisis and they did the best they could.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367152#Comment_118367152

If your not aware after two years of the chaos, mixed messaging, ineptitude, health service shambles (non covid), U turn after U Turn, Makey uppy Jobs, Leakage, Constant undermining , Shambolic School Covid management or should I say lack of , I can't enlighten you. I won't even go into the various scandals that occurred.

As I've said, I'm trying not to personalise it and don't intend to other than expressing my disgust, dismay and horror at some of the appalling lack of leadership shown by ALL 3 coalition partners.

You seem somewhat hung up on other countries, I couldn't give a toss about other countries governments, the Thread asks about Irelands government.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367235#Comment_118367235

Sweeping generalisations. Always easy for the professional moaners. When you're ready to engage in actual proper discussion let us know.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367434#Comment_118367434

Not at all sure why your focusing on my particular comments but I won't be baited, however, to appease you, do take a listen at the attached as just a sample of the incompetence.

Fast forward to the analysis of Norma Foleys extraordinarily miss leading information yesterday, might help you better understand I'm not making sweeping generalisations.

Even the deputy CMO bamboozled.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/

touts

Some have definitely not done great but at least they have stuck together in the national interest and have tried to get us through this. Can't wait to see the Shinners and the Trots in coalition next time. I'd imagine they will turn on each other around the cabinet table come the first whiff of a crisis and the main thing leaking will be blood under the door.

MTU

You’re well able to play hurling from the ditch op.

ginoginelli

The whole of fianna gael have been appalling. They have rightfully lost massive support.

MM for all his failings is probably the best of them.

At this stage, no matter how much I distrust Sinn Fein, who probably still report to the Army Council - I dont see any choice but to give them a chance in government next time around.

TonyMaloney

Simon Harris :)

"But remember this is coronavirus Covid-19, that means there has been 18 other coronaviruses and I don't think they have successfully found a vaccine for any."

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367235#Comment_118367235

It seems odd that one wouldn't compare our performance against other countries, or at least dismiss it so easily. Subjective while it might be, although i'm sure there are/will be many facts there to support it - comparison of one country vs another is a very good stick to gauge overall performance.

The fact that no country has gotten it absolutely right has to be taken to mean that the job was extremely difficult. IMO anyone who thinks that there were not going to be mishaps, mixed messaging at times, contradicting rules etc is actually seriously misguided, seriously deluded and probably a serial complainer.

Personally, i think Donnelly was a mistake but overall, i think Harris, Leo & MM have performed quite well, probably in that order. Mistakes? Sure. Some affected me and i wasn't happy. Others were affected far more and i can see why they definitely wouldn't be happy, even when looking at it subjectively.

If Boris or Don were at the wheel i can guarantee you we'd be feeling the pain alot more.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377493#Comment_118377493

Again I refer you to the original OP,which asked about performances of Irish Ministers (which on the whole has been pretty dreadful), whilst I could personalise it, I won't but if you agree constant (not just occasional) mixed messaging is acceptable, fair enough.

All those concerned with how other governments performed perhaps could enlighten us with new Threads .

As for Harris performing well 😳 seriously 🙄

Interesting review in today's indo, how was it put again🤔, o yes, Harris put his foot in it again.

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377615#Comment_118377615

Why do you think that the thread title or OP content means we can't compare performance to other countries? Do you follow the same "rules" on other threads? It seems a very odd take. Perhaps it's cause it doesn't suit your narrative?

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how Harris performed so badly. Because to be fair, it's not a widely held view. Seems one of the more competent figures in Irish politics. What was the context on the newspaper article - i can't find it on an admittedly quick search.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377746#Comment_118377746

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/helen-makes-history-and-simon-puts-his-foot-in-it-2021-winners-and-losers-41185171.html

It's a premium article, my point re commenting on other governments is that's for others if they so wish, OP asked about Irish Ministers performance. I personally no interest in what happens across the Pond.

We'll have to agree to disagree re Harris , but the Polls suggest both his and this governments performance generally , not at all inspiring.

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377760#Comment_118377760

Well could you give us the cliffs from the article seeing as it's behind a paywall?

I presume you have access seeing as you are mentioning it.

elperello

I don't see why we shouldn't benchmark our politicians against other countries.

When people criticise our ministers they often quote how things are done in other countries.

Besides the Covid crisis is unprecedented in our lifetime so we need to spread our net widely to judge the parameters of best practice.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379215#Comment_118379215

There's ample articles for you to Google re the hapless Harris

Take this for example

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/simon-harris-sorry-for-awful-boo-boo-about-18-viruses-before-covid-19-1.4235478

Amazed he could actually count to 19 😁

Or this perhaps , not covid related technically but deflection that somewhat backfired.

Note the date on the article, apparently Harris still strongly considering 🤔

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0916/1247088-dail/

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379341#Comment_118379341

So you don't have access to it either? But using it as a basis for your argument even though you don't know what's in it?

In actual fact, the picture in the article is that of Coveney, not Harris. Is the article even about him? 😂

Downlinz

I'll throw out a few ratings (out of ten) for the ministers and trying to focus strictly on matters relating to the pandemic. For context I was a Green voter last election and likely SD in the next.

Leo Varadkar - 4 - Initially strong and quick response with the first lockdown. Impactful speeches and told the country what they generally needed to hear throughout the first wave. Registering himself for service with the HSE was likely a PR move but a brilliant one and encouraged the message of "we're all in it together" and how everyone should do their part. At no point in the pandemic were the public more united behind a single cause than the March-May period of the first wave and you have to credit his leadership.

But... he then damaged himself badly by throwing NPHET under the bus in winter 2020, downplaying medical advice at a time when were on the cusp of the most deadly part of the pandemic. He damaged himself again with his presence at Merriongate and once again with his concert trip to London at a time when such entertainment festivals couldn't take place in his own country.

I was impressed with his leadership early in the pandemic but by the end I thought of him as a Tory-lite. Great at setting the rules for the common people but with little interest in following them himself.

Simon Harris - 4 - Rescued his reputation with clear and precise guidance in the first wave and despite his misunderstanding in the origin of the Covid 19 name he generally performed well in his role for this time. In particular I appreciated his encouragement for folks with non-covid symptoms to attend doctors and hospitals during a time where there was huge hesitancy among the general public.

His role in higher education has rarely been too noteworthy although he did manage to screw over many students and parents through giving assurances in September 2020 over accommodation bookings but failing to compensate or protect the renter once everything was shut down a few months later. His frequent cabinet leaks shouldn't be ignored either.

Joe McHugh - 1 - Honestly the less said about this fellow and his tragic performance around the LC 2020 the better. A complete and utter shambles. It just went to show how many incapable ministers we have at any given time in lower profile positions who generally fly under the radar in normal times but will be completely exposed in more challenging times.

Micheál Martin - 2 - Feels like something from another era with his almost priest-like sermons and invocations of shame around socialising or general enjoyment. His speeches are incredibly dull, uninteresting and I'm not sure how many people are actually listening to him, he has thoroughly lost the country from a leadership sense.

His response to golfgate I felt could have gone stronger. This was a key event which broke the public trust in government and only demotions and suspensions felt like a slap on the wrist more than a leader who wished to send out on a strong message on those in his party who wished to ignore the very guidelines and restrictions they were setting.

His worst moment came from his Merriongate "we move on" attempts to sweep proceedings under the rug. His guidelines were once again undermined by his colleagues in government and he once again had very little to say about it. Another thread of trust snapped between the public and his leadership and this government.

Stephen Donnelly - 0 - He has literally been so poor at his role on health spokesperson and decision maker that various members of NPHET and Tony Holohan have since stepped up to replace him. It was revealing in Richard Chamber's book how Tony and Micheál both have completely lost confidence in him and essentially bypass him at this stage.

Special mention to his trampoline comparison.

Norma Foley - 0 - There's no other word for her than a fraud. She hand picks interviews to attend, vanishes during moments of controversy and appears essentially to be a puppet for whoever her advisors. Her tenure has overseen not learning from her predecessor with another unnecessary LC debacle, the mess around the calculated grades formula and a series negligent actions and comments regarding the spread of covid in schools.

In recent months alone we've seen her directly mislead by quoting misleading statistics to downplay the spread of Covid in schools, she has done nothing regarding HEPA filters and even managed to oversee the removal of contract tracing in schools to ensure more risks for students and teachers.

Catherine Martin - 1 - Ultimately the minister responsible by the sector hit hardest by far by restrictions and she's done little to protect a decimated and apparently wasn't even at the sub-cabinet table until very recently. Imagine being the minister in charge of the entertainment and sports sector but not even being in the room while they were being shut down.

Darragh O'Brien - 1 - Not entirely pandemic related but since it's used as the excuse I'll include him anyway. Placed a priority on delivering affordable homes by the end of the year but allowed Ireland to be the only country in Europe where house building was shut down during the 3rd wave and also allowed that to continue for four months. As a result he delivered 0 affordable houses in 2021 from his target of 6200.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379516#Comment_118379516

You've clearly not actually Read the articles and all three relate to hapless Harris, perhaps you just look at pictures to better understand an article, you've missed Leo and indeed Paschal in the pictures.

I'm guessing your in the FG appreciation society and that's your entitlement but don't be shy about it.

How about asking others who've posted their opinions or is it just me you want to Bait🙄

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379540#Comment_118379540

Your being very Generous, Hapless Harris didn't even rate in this article today ,

Very telling that one FG TD who's barely utter a word Covid related gets a mention due a single absurd issue, the Lotto 🙄

https://www.thejournal.ie/these-are-the-winners-and-losers-from-the-irish-political-year-5626230-Dec2021/

Degag

No no, i'm not baiting anyone. I'm trying to post honestly and genuinely and hope you are too. But i have my doubts.

This the the article you posted first and have alluded to the fact you have read it. Have you? As you said yourself it's behind a firewall. Is the article about Harris? Because it doesn't mention his name once, nor does it contain his picture. It contains Simon Coveney's picture therefore it's likely about him (in part). If it is about Harris then please post cliffs as to what it refers to ( this is the 4th time i think i've requested this). I have no interest in any other article you posted, as this is the one you posted originally to promote your argument. An argument that you don't seem to have any interest in actually arguing other than throwing insults of sorts.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/helen-makes-history-and-simon-puts-his-foot-in-it-2021-winners-and-losers-41185171.html

If the article is not about Harris then you are posting extremely disingenuously.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379676#Comment_118379676

Apologies, I actually posted the wrong article , the Two Simons constantly putting their foot in it so to speak , easy to get confused, simple simons as it where. I'm certainly not being disingenuous, I've my opinions, you have yours but your clearly focusing on mine which is curious .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377760#Comment_118377760

Can you cut and paste the text from it? Just that article, no need to reply with other articles making the same (ish) point.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379716#Comment_118379716

As since explained, incorrect article and incorrect Simon (Coveney) it is a premium article and copying and pasting on this new board's format a nightmare ,covers general performance of ministers, more an opinion piece .

Anyway clearly some on here less than appreciative of any criticism of FG, they'd be horrified at what's written on other less than flattering Threads .

I'm as critical of FF, particularly Stephen Donnelly and especially Norma Foley, both utterly dreadful.

Good Night 😴

road_high

This government is hands down the worst I’ve ever had the misfortune to live under. Completely bereft of any talent, ZERO vision or conviction, led by mob social media “feelings”…look simply at how they’ve blown away the finances of the nation. This is insanity. And it will all come to a head soon as we simply cannot go on spending at this level for no return. I’m a FG voter but won’t ever be voting for them again. As a middle range taxpayer they’ve treated me with nothing but contempt throughout. The country badly needs a big turn away from the woke lefty handout culture. Work needs to be rewarded abs those that contribute rewarded instead of raped.

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379703#Comment_118379703

No problem. Mistakes can happen.

This was what you said in the original post on the subject though...

Interesting review in today's indo, how was it put again🤔, o yes, Harris put his foot in it again.

So, there was two articles in the Indo today? One where "Simon puts his foot in it" (but relating to Coveney) and another relating to Harris putting his foot in it?

Interesting. Have you a link to this other article? Even if it is behind a paywall?

I'm not sure why you're curious about me quoting you. I think (but could be wrong) that we've only crossed paths once before. All i remember anyhow. Boards is a place of discussion. Is discussion "curious" when two people clearly have different viewpoints?

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379874#Comment_118379874

I agree with you but if you think you're getting rode now as middle range tax payer you'll be in for a big shock in SF ever get in.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379987#Comment_118379987

I know. I despair really. I’m voting for some obscure anti establishment loons the next time. SF are the same as the rest. FG Lab SF SD FF greens etc all the same lefty big state drivel

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118380001#Comment_118380001

These lines from the poem "Jim" by Hilaire Belloc come to mind 🙂

"And always keep a-hold of Nurse

For fear of finding something worse"

spaceHopper

I don't know why MM hasn't pulled the plug, Leo is constantly going behind his back.

Norma, since she was was appointed she's not made a single decision on her own. She hidden behind public health advice.

Donnelly comes across all wrong there is nobody more important in the world that him.

What should have been done,

Proper contact tracing, it was broken in schools in September 2020

Antigen testing as soon as they are available

Better data science, if you look at the Irish numbers v the rest of the world our are like a saw tooth even after averaging.

No hiding behind GDPR in schools inform parents.

Hope for the best, the vaccine will save us but don't count on it they should have spent on school and HEPA filters, from what I can see from work and friends kids got covid, took it home infected their family while at the same time there rest of the class did the same. So the numbers say out breaks were in homes but the reality is that they started in schools. Windows open in schools means that all kids are run down and catching every bug going,

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379947#Comment_118379947

Points fairly made and taken

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118380361#Comment_118380361

There's no doubting pretty bad decisions made or in some cases no decisions, just deflection. MM didn't pull the plug for numerous reasons, the Good of the nation Cliché became somewhat farcical early on in this coalition and I completely agree that for some inexplicable reason, Leo attempted to undermine him at every turn, even the most die hard FG supporters must have seen this.

Put simply MM had nowhere to go, his support within FF was rock bottom at the start of this coalition, the Polls suggested (and they've got worse), FF Would be decimated and frankly, his only remaining personal ambition was to be Taoiseach but certainly not be the shortest FF reigning Taoiseach in the history of the state.

I'm neither a FF or FG supporter but actually admire MM"s Resilience, that doesn't mean I think he has good leadership skills. Personally, I thought a few months ago, he'll serve out his term as Taoiseach and retire, now I'm not so sure. FFand FG now ultimately depend on each other to actually survive, depressing as it is, I believe we're stuck with them for the foreseeable future.

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367434#Comment_118367434

Breaking news ,, SF supporters not happy with Govt 😂😂😂

TonyMaloney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118379540#Comment_118379540

This for me is post of the year 2021.

I agree with every word. The only thing I take any issue with is your scoring system.

For me, Varadkar's undermining of the public health team during a pandemic puts him right at the bottom of the **** heap. It cost us a lot of lives, had us stuck in our homes for months, and it continues to cost us dearly to this day.

I agree with the positives you had to say about him, but they don't really register any more such are the magnitude of his negatives.

So he's a big fat zero for me. And I'd raise the like of Norma Foley to a one just to emphasise how bad he's been. I realise that won't be popular.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118380959#Comment_118380959

Breaking News, have you seen any recent Polls, it's actually FFG supporters who are extremely unhappy and there's clear evidence their once, life long supporters looking elsewhere and completely fed up, i don't believe all looking towards SF whom I not a fan of incidently. Let's face it, Labour an utter shambles but I can actually see SD and SF picking up droves of disgruntled voters next time around. Greens are quite simply finished, absolute disastrous performance in Government, they've clearly learned no lessons from their last time in office.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118381003#Comment_118381003

It's also fair to say Leo undermined the very coalition he helped form.

ginoginelli

A Sinn Fein, ff coalition could be a likely scenario next time round. As unsavoury as it sounds, it's a lot more palatable than letting the current crop of FG me feiners anywhere near goverment for the foreseeable.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118381112#Comment_118381112

Quite possible, I'm thinking that it could well be a SF/SD coalition with few independents getting consessions to behave themselves.

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118380723#Comment_118380723

Disingenuous so. Grand.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118381512#Comment_118381512

Childish and tiresome response 🙄

I think its been an utter farce,30 odd ministers/junior minister,fcuk knows how many 'advisors' and just stumble from crisis to crisis and noone seems to know whats going on

Too many chiefs and not enough indians,hence how we've ended up with a government trying to please everyone and making noone happy....

the media have been an utter joke throughout it,egging on reopening/living with virus (cant be done effectively as next 3 weeks will so)....the amount of columns and airtime devoted to plight of publicans/restauranters and obvious glaring social issues glossed over is mind boggling

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118381052#Comment_118381052

I’ve seen the polls alright but try transferring that into seats !! SF will get more seats but will still be away off forming a Govt and who in their right minds would team up with them?

You say SD but they be lucky to keep seats they have. FF andFG might lose a few seats but can still see them forming the next Govt as well with greens and independents.

SF would be Toxic with their airy fairy policies and nobody would touch them so opposition again but that’s what they are happiest giving out about everything.