Was the Tiger really that great?

Fr Tod Umptious

People should watch Pure Mule.

It's a great snapshot of rural Ireland during the Celtic Tiger.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271692#Comment_118271692

I remember Gateway shut down and they interviewed a load of guys leaving, they all said they would go work on sites :-)

Pussyhands

The whole credit thing isn't back but I think everything else about the tiger is.

Property prices are crazy and peoples attitudes to prices are very blasé. "sure what's an extra 20k on the life of a mortgage"

People are trying to keep up with the Jones's. I'm living in between two families. When one gets a new SUV, the other has to get one not long after. When one built an extension, while later the other builds one. When one got an expensive dog, the other gets one a while after.

Everyone seems to have a load of money and those spending it like there's no tomorrow are better off than those trying to be financially responsible.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271832#Comment_118271832

The reason we have high property prices is because of a supply problem.

Not enough houses being built because it's too expensive for builders to build them, and the credit lines to them are not the same as back in the day.

That's not the same reason as during the Celtic Tiger.

Then it was due to a speculative property bubble.

The reason we have so many new SUVs is because of PCP and leasing etc.

SafeSurfer

It was a crazy time. Glad I got to experience the irrational exuberance of an inflating bubble at least once.

I thought nothing of hiring choppers to go to the Galway races.

Witnessed people putting their coin change in the bin on the way out of shops.

Anyone who wanted a job could earn good money. I mean anyone. The guy in your class who left National school without knowing how to tie his laces was probably earning 1k+ a week.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271832#Comment_118271832

The first sentence is contradictory. Giving out too much credit led to negative equity, and the nation is still paying for that. If there is no negative equity in future, the property can be re-possessed at no loss to the lender or to us. Negative equity was never a feature of past recessions until after the Tiger.

Thankfully I was too young to enjoy the excesses of the Tiger.

riclad

Many propertys are still in negative equity, but rental costs were much lower than they are now. it was a good time to be young, people were optimistic, no one was worried about climate change,no we have high rents and a homeless crisis.life is tough for gen z now unless they have rich parents to help them get a mortgage

yourdeadwright

Personally it was a fantastic time ,

Making a shed load of money that wasn't deserved and spending it on having fun and enjoying myself, Travelled the world boozing and partying and just before it came to an end i changed jobs into one that the crash did not effect,

The money being made on building site was unbelievable really, even more so if you where willing to do extra weekends and what not ,as a young lad you could make good money for a few months and then head off across the world for a month or two come home & straight into a job making mad money again ,

Ray Palmer

I think it is funny how somebody mentioned IT workers weren't paid great during this period. If you were a contractor the rates were great and haven't reached that level again. At the time I was getting €475 a day as a mid level tester but was not under any pressure in work and there was no overtime without pay. I got double pay for Saturdays and once I only was there for an hour but they had to send us home as the system was down but still got paid for the full day on double pay.

The amount of SUVs about was crazy, most houses on my road had at least one. Now it is two families with them and they need them for work. Worked with a lot of recent graduates at the time and they were obnoxious. All thought they were going to be promoted and making huge salaries or start their own high tech business. There was a lot of cocaine use by this group too. When the crash came and you would of needed to be blind not to see it coming they were all caught off guard and lots of redundancies. Bump into one or two of them every now and then and they didn't get the promotions or start businesses and work at the low end of the industry. Of about 30 graduates of the time only 1 seems to have done well the rest just didn't have much initiative as they just thought things would fall into place.

Lots and lots of poorer people borrowed on their home value and didn't understand a mortgage is a better loan rate IF you pay it back as quickly as a loan. I know people paying off for a car they bought back then through a mortgage. One guy still doesn't understand how he is still paying off for the SUV he bought back then because he bought it with his mortgage.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298606#Comment_118298606

How could anybody be in negative equity in 2021, after a fall in house prices that occurred in 2007-2010?

Ray Palmer

riclad

Cos people bought houses for 200k that are now worth 120k outside Dublin, and other city's the tiger lasted years before 2007 I'd you bought in dublin you are unlikely to be in negative equity now

People even went to the UK to declare bankruptcy and terminate the mortgage eg why pay a loan of 200k on a house that is now worth 100k it makes no sense. If you borrow 200k it costs 400k to actually pay back the loan over 25 years

dxhound2005

Probably the last reliable stats are from 2016. But homes paying back a mortgage are a falling element of the overall. Renting has increased a lot, but so has the number of homes owned outright. Given those numbers, there are not going to be very many cases of negative equity dating back to the tiger now.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/tr/

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/negative-equity-end-in-sight-for-homeowners-37944309.html

beggars_bush

Was in college so generally passed me by.

Hadn't much money so didn't go mad

Got my first serious job in 2005, on good money plus commission. Had a company vehicle, company phone, overnights in hotels, meals out.

Saved for 12 months then went back to college!

Graduated and got another job in 2007. In that job since.

Was very lucky how it worked out

riclad

My friend bought new apartment in 2006 cost 150k, its now worth 90k, in a small town outside Dublin. She, d sell it if she could but for negative equity

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306467#Comment_118306467

At this stage the sale might produce a sufficient sum to clear a significant amount of the outstanding balance. That probably is not an option, if it is her principal residence. But she may have the option to make lump sum payments, or increase the monthly repayments. Which can result in a significant saving. I hope she did not borrow more than the €150K to buy it.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/money-tools/extra-mortgage-payments-calculator/

riclad

I don't think she can afford to increase the monthly payments, she borrowed 150k, its worth 90k approx. She told me she would love sell it if she could it's an investment rental unit, it's just costs her money to pay the loan plus insurance etc im sure there's 1000s of people out there who bought in rural areas still in negative equity . the banks were throwing loans out at anyone who had a job , now its tough to get a loan unless you gave a high salary or help from your parents.

She has 2 mortgages to pay on 2 loans she rents out one apartment the rent covers maybe 80 per cent of the 2nd mortgage.

But I think young people were better off in the celtic tiger years than they are now

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306467#Comment_118306467

Must be a long way outside Dublin to be valued at only 90k.

A miniscule one-bed in Navan (and I mean less than 400 sq ft) is 125k.

Strumms

• Jobs were plentiful
• money was good was it was an employee’s market, they needed to pay to get you and keep you
• under less pressure in work as if you left either under a cloud or under a rainbow fûck it, you have a job again in days
• extra disposable income meant things like nice cars, holidays and weekend breaks to break any stress or monotony were easily attainable..

But... if you didn’t make hay while the sun shone...you had to deal with lots of new arrivals competing for a slice of our pie and success....

• Up to at its height, 6 figure population increases per year
• more competition for jobs
• less pay and worse conditions, employers market
• less available housing, prices going through the roof, supply vs demand...
• longer hospital waiting lists

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307997#Comment_118307997

Therein lies the problem of people who knew nothing about investment properties or investments taking out big loans on houses and apartments because "it was the smart thing to do" what she should have done was buy a home, if everyone that jumped on the bandwagon of easy money bought a home they could settle in long term instead of an investment they wouldn't have been in the mess they're in

dxhound2005

The Property Tax stats show that t 123,800 people paid the tax on two properties in 2020, that is 247,700 properties. Out of a total of 1.868 million properties paying the tax. Altogether 559,000 properties are in the hands of people paying the tax on two or more.

Some of the people with two, are probably those "accidental landlords" from the tiger era. Page 13.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/statistics/lpt/local-property-tax-2020.pdf

The One Doctor

The F-5E Tiger II was far better.

beggars_bush

The wall street crash in the 1920s happened for the same reason

Too many people living on credit, living the good life, prices going up based on optimism, banks loaning too much to speculators

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306467#Comment_118306467

She has paid 17 years of a mortgage as well?

enricoh

Around 5am one Sunday morning a girl I know with a modest enough job was telling me about the investment property she was going to buy. She had bought 4-5 years previously and it probably had appreciated by 100k.

She had discussed it that week with her fortune teller n the fortune teller had looked into the future n gave her the thumbs up! Who needs market research when madam Zara rolls into town every Saturday with her caravan!

Dr. Bre

All those majors he won - of course the tiger was great

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271021#Comment_118271021

I thought it was about a tank.

I did well out of the Tiger. Being an only child was advantageous when my mother sold the D6 family home for a 7 figure sum, and I got my apartment paid for by that plus spare change to buy a place to let. Of course the new places were proportionally very expensive but there was enough spare change to pay off the car loan and to invest some. I’ve a very modest pension, but it set me up with as much as I need now.

Conall Cernach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265166#Comment_118265166

I genuinely thought and hoped that this thread would indeed be about the fabled PzKpw VI and am glad that someone else mentioned it. My own opinion is that yes, it was great but overcomplicated and that more Panthers and fewer Tiger Koenigs and Mauses could have made the difference.