Was the Tiger really that great?

Ubbquittious

I was in college during this peculiar time but I wonder was it all it's cracked up to be?

Just like today there was a sizeable population of people trying to get on the property ladder and under huge pressure to try and buy any ould overpriced heap of sh1t so they wouldnt have to rent anymore. Then every bit of work that needed to be done to said heap of sh1te cost an arm and a leg and unless you did the work yourself it would be done in the shoddiest manner possible.

Tradesmen did earn great money but most of them squandered it. The societal pressure to squander it must have been huge and only the toughest of refuseniks held onto their money or got out of the flipping/investing game before it was too late.

People spent massive amounts on absolute tat, decorations/fittings for their house made in China that looked terribly tacky & fell apart after a few years sold at a huge mark up, Chinese plastic hot tubs almost none of which are still around today.

Thelonious Monk

Everyone is still filling their houses with Chinese tat while at the same time blaming them for climate change, by the way!

Frank Grimes

We all went mad. It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times.

EmmetSpiceland

I will say this, it was a great time to be young(er), free and single.

His record in the Majors speaks for itself.

Melodeon

It was a fantastic piece of engineering, with speed and armour that outmatched anything it came up against, and the 88mm gun was a magnificent piece of ordnance in its own right, but the whole package was hugely over complicated and was very costly in time and materials to build. It was also difficult to maintain or repair in the field, due to the aforementioned complexity.

Realistically, it could never have overcome the industrial might of the USA and the willingness of the Soviets to throw vast numbers of men into the fray.

Fr Tod Umptious

It's hard to know really.

We are all 21 to 14 years older now than when we were during the Celtic Tiger era (which I am putting between 2000 and 2007).

So for example I was young free and single, did a lot of traveling and going out during a period of that era.

I now have a family.

Are things better now for a family man than in 2003 ?

Are things better now for a young man than in 2003 (COVID aside) ?

I have no idea of how to figure that out.

One thing for sure though it was much easier to get housing.

We had no bother buying a house in 2004 and no bother selling and upgrading in 2007.

Sure they were overpriced, and potentially poorly built, but they were plentiful, as was the finance.

I'd hate to be trying to get a house now.

Loafing Oaf

absolutely

Darc19

People queued for an hour and more and then paid a door charge to get into many pubs and paid high prices for drink

Yep, it became THAT ridiculous.

People felt rich. They had a €400k mortgage but their house was "worth" €600,000.

They thought that 200k was free money.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265332#Comment_118265332

Now you have to book online and show vaccine certs to go into a night club

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265332#Comment_118265332

Yeah, the whole idea that borrowing money made your rich was way to prevalent.

Capt'n Midnight

While you have to respect something that eats bears and crocs you have to wonder about why it needs the eye spots on it's ears to deter predators.

foozzybear61

It was the possibility and positivity that made the country feel good , every week there appeared to be good news stories

it was all built on sand ...but nothing seemed impossible ,

mantra was let the good times roll

dxhound2005

Bertie was great and the people loved him. FF got 77,81,77 seats out of 165 in his three elections 1997, 2002 and 2007. The people did not love Brian or Micheál as much, Micheál got only 20 in 2011.

Shao Kahn

We were like that fat bird on the titanic, new money! 😂

Loud and obnoxious, but still kind of likable at the same time. We retained some of our old world charm for a while in spite of the money.

I prefer the tiger people, rather than the overly sensitive and delicate people of this era. We've become a bit soft and pretentious over the last couple of decades.

dxhound2005

I'm glad to say that all through the Great Depressions, The Tiger, and the Snowflake eras, I have maintained a dignified demeanour. I am not represented by those accusations of obnoxiousness, or soft pretentiousness.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265546#Comment_118265546

Tommy Tiernan had a routine about how everyone went crazy spending money during the Celtic Tiger days, the good times, but what were people supposed to do? If they continued to save money and lead a relatively austere life, they wouldn't have been the "good times". They'd have been the "preparing-for-the-bad-times times".

Still stihl waters 3

Good times indeed, if you were a trademan, plenty money to be made

Yes he was likely the best player ever, he won 14 of his majors in a 11 year period from age 22 to 33.

For Forks Sake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKnJQxYODo

Panthro

I felt like a proper royal.. A king among Tigers if you will.

That was until recession happen and Carol was baskin' in my downfall.

What a betch.

Motivator

The Celtic Tiger was a mad time but it really was the best few years we’ll ever see in this country, at least in my time. It’s mad, the weather seemed to be always good in the summer, plenty of money to go around and everyone was working.

People working in traditionally low skilled, low paid jobs were earning good money. Nothing was out of reach for people and the country as a whole was flying. Everywhere was busy - restaurants, pubs, nightclubs. People got to enjoy nice things and enjoy life in general. I know it all came tumbling down but to be honest if you asked people would they do it all over again I guarantee people would say yes. The things that people got to see or do back then are things they can’t even dream of doing ever again. I don’t mean because of COVID, I mean because the opportunities aren’t there anymore.

I was in the company of a few lads in the pub about 5 or 6 years ago and one guy had made a fortune when he sold his company for about €40m in 2006. He retired and put all his money into shares and property almost straight away. Lost the whole lot over a couple of years. He’s back working now and someone asked would he do things different. He said no because when he sold out he made sure all the lads he had working for him were kept on and he bought a site each for 4 of the lads that were with him from the start and who made the company successful. If the Celtic Tiger hadn’t been around he wouldn’t have been able to do that and set those guys up for life with a house. The Tiger brought out the worst in people but it also brought out the best in people and that’s often forgotten too easily.

StupidLikeAFox

We all partied

riclad

Things are now worse, gen z faces climate change, high rents, housing crisis, during the celtic tiger people were optimistic, houses were being built, maybe not in the right places, it was easier to get a mortgage

Now a ordinary house is 400k I don't think the average young person can buy a house unless they have financial help from their parents

Also we have seen the rise of political extremism, Poland, Belarus, trump, I remember young people would actually go to America for work,

Yes some people were greedy and materistic but look at Irelands future now it looks doubtful

The government owes billions and theres alot of bullshit virtue signalling is everyone really going to switch over to electric cars

There'll be no petrol cars 15 years really? it's like self driving cars it's always 5 years away

I don't use Facebook but I hear its full of fake news conspiracy theory's and young people are closing down accounts the Obama years were at least hopeful and optimistic millenials look like the last normal lucky generation

As the cliche go's you don't know what you have got til it's gone

dxhound2005

They should have built the houses in the right places. If you buy a house now in one of those wrong places, you can get two for €400,000.

In Actuality

Terrible documentary. Hard time to be in college with the lockdown.

It was "great" for some people, others it just completely passed by.

I was in my early thirties, in a full time but low paid junior public service job.

I can't remember who it was that famously said "we all partied" during the tiger years, but it was definitely not true of everyone.

Gregor Samsa

I remember the Tiger well. And we did party - well he did anyway. Came into my house. Ate all the food on the cooker, in the fridge, in the cupboards. Drank all the tea, my dad's beer, all the water in the taps for the bath. Then just headed off. We had to eat out that night, and ended up buying a load of expensive specialist tiger food that was never used.

He was pretty great, though. As was his cousin Tony, who I never met. Tony was more humble by all accounts. Never said he was gr-r-reat! himself, but did often describe other things as such.

Strumms

I was earning decent money with decent rises every June in our pay review...

i could afford two holidays year and probably a weekend away or two, plus Manchester for a match twice a season , Kilkenny for the roots festival , ran a decent car... I wasn’t popping champagne corks but it was nice... haven’t exactly fallen into a poverty pit far from it but opportunities were certainly more then, than now.

HerrKuehn

It was good for those involved in the property industry or related sectors. There was also benchmarking and pay increase for the public sector over the 2000 - 2007 period. It was not great as a tech worker at the time, actually working a programmer would not have been considered a good job around 2007. Rising house prices rising were breathlessly cheered on by the media, that would be the main difference really. Now it is not considered a good thing at all. It was certainly an interesting time, laughable looking back on it to be honest. It was like what you would expect to happen if children suddenly found a lot of money. The fact that some would consider a couple of holidays a year and trips to see manchester united as some sort of success says it all really.

Donal Caulfield was an interesting character, he built a housing estate in Malahide that had leather bound brochures that cost 750 euros each.

For me at least the best time was the crash. If you managed to stay in good employment and were good with money during the bubble, there were huge opportunities.

BuildTheWall

I was very young at the time but I got the sense from my parents they thought it was never going to end and only go up from there. The crash hit them badly and brought everything back down to earth a bit. Would have been a great time to have been their age, early to mid thirties.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118264776#Comment_118264776

Basically most people acted like Homer while a small few were sensible and acted like Grimey and got burned

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269559#Comment_118269559

Seriously bitchy post, 2 holidays a year and a trip to see a soccer game or 2 seems to be your idea of success not 5he poster you had a little dig at, no need to to denigrate someone else's enjoyment became you'd a shìt job at time, hope things improved for you since

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269684#Comment_118269684

Oh, it definitely isn't my idea of success. That is why I describe it as laughable. My job wasn't bad at the time, it just wasn't great relative to what others were earning. I was however very careful with money and saved a lot, so when 2012 came around I was in a good position.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269710#Comment_118269710

You described it as such, no one else, do you usually find yourself dreaming up stuff to laugh at

interlocked

The Monday club. Some pubs made more on a Monday than a weekend night. Lads from the sites would be in the horrors after the weekend and wouldn't bother turning up especially if they had worked a Saturday.

They were making serious money, lads working on a machine were taking out well over a grand a week into their pocket. It was mostly blown where as the Polish lads saved like **** and went home and built a house or started a business.

The tiger collapse really screwed the trades, a lot of them ended up in Australia, no young fellow would look at an apprenticeship and now, we're when we need them, we're suffering a huge shortage of tradesmen.

(I'm including girls in the above, nothing wrong with a female plumber!)

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269720#Comment_118269720

I was commenting on the previous poster. It seems I hit a bit of a nerve with you though.

Mister Vain

It was a better time for meeting the opposite sex. We didn't have the disposable “swipe next” mentality.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269673#Comment_118269673

I got electrocuted by it 😡

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269925#Comment_118269925

Ya shure nobody was vain back in those days. Don't blame tinder because you can't get laid. Assuming you can remember those days it's probably just that the young ones think you are an old fart now and all the ones your own age are either married or sick of hooking up with losers

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269986#Comment_118269986

It's not great for the young wans either.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221067/was-the-tiger-really-that-great

Just because the press has only started to highlight the housing problem in recent times does not mean that we did not have the problem before the tiger, we have always had the problem. In fact the entire Anglo sphere has this problem because people have the belief that a housing policy the require people to take on huge amounts of debt or rely on social services to provide housing is a good idea.

And just like the rest of the Anglo sphere, Irish society has always had a strong consumerism streak, it is just that there is more tat about these days.

The only thing the tiger did was pour fuel on existing fires, those things were already well established.

My wife (Swiss) and I were students in Dublin in the 80s and left for Switzerland in 1989. We did not return for a visit until 2005 and after a few days strolling around Dublin, visiting old haunts etc, my wife made the comment - this country is no longer poor. And she was right, we both saw changes that happened so gradually that you living did it did not notice - you dress better, eat better, live in better housing, drive on better roads with newer cars, holiday better etc… you finally caught up with the rest of Europe. But about all this it gave you a certain confidence and a ‘can do’ attitude that was not there before.

So yes the tiger was good for the country, very good for the country, although not for some individuals. And dispirited what some would like us to believe, the price was not high. At the height of the recession Irish national debt per capita was around 128% and going into the pandemic it stood at about 78% in line with the like of Germany and below the UK, France and Italy.

Morris Garren

Well I saw the title and immediately I thought that winning 15 majors, becoming the most recognised person on the planet and heralding the new norm in global sports marketing, sure did make the Tiger great.

But then there was also that very odd time in Ireland when Paddy the Plasterer and Mick the Plumber hired a helicopter together of a Thursday to play a four ball on their day off and pay 40 euro for a mouldy steak sandwich so that they could boast about their growing property portfolio of superior semi-detached unbuilt homes in Leitrim...

I hope we never ever have to suffer such delusional gobshitery again

Sunny Disposition

The early years, circa 1996 to 01 were the best of it in ways, got a bit excessive later on, by 07 I think people were a bit alienated. But it was definitely a lot better than the six years that followed.

It all turned really fast, construction was booming at the start of 07 but a lot of tradesmen were on the dole that Christmas.

08 was really grim as it became apparent that it was all over and all the spin couldn’t change that.

I think we have developed a boom bust economy, it’s very unstable even now. FDI is great obviously, but it does leave us more vulnerable to swings than other countries.

BurgerFace

The whole thing was manufactured. Like free crack cocaine. I was living in Amsterdam at the time and would come home to Dublin for Christmas. I own a lovely apartment in Holland and would go to the pub in Dublin and listen to kids 7 years younger than me, neighbours, asking me..."So how's Amsterdam?" ... "Yeah, lovely" I'd say. "I love it there. Still doing the old IT crap" and one of them would say "but sure I have four houses, one in Bulgaria. So how much is that house in Amsterdam worth?" "Dunno mate.....might have gone up in price, maybe down. You don't know until you try to sell, eh?"

Then they buy a round of drinks and sling a 20 at the barmaid as a tip.

And I'm thinking to myself "You moron (me), why did you squander 4 years of your life in university when you could have been a high roller like these guys."

It's not schadenfreude. But those 4 houses are long gone. And the marriage too. I still have my beautiful canal apartment in Amsterdam. Allegedly it's worth 1.2 million now (another bubble). .. but I like living in it.

I'm pissed off that so many people got suckered in Ireland. Debt isn't wealth.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118269559#Comment_118269559

Who said it was considered ‘success’ ?

’was the Tiger really that great’ is the question posed... I outlined for me, some of the reasons why it was.. but you seemed to have ignored some and focused on a couple that in your view are negative... right :)

somewhat disingenuous of you .. :)

cj maxx

The lads I knew that owned construction companies did well. The rest of us bought into Berties, FFs announcement the we as a country were under debited. Then the banks sought to fix that. As a labourer on a decent wage my bank tried to sell me mortgages of 70K.

I didn't but know alot of lads who did and bought , and eventually lost , homes .

The ratio I thought for a mortgage was 5/1 . That went out the window in the bubble tiger

barneygumble99

I started learning my trade in 2000 as apprentice so spent 5 years on mediocre wages. Left in 2005 and spent 5 years driving a machine on motorway projects. Best decision I ever made. Driving machines was always my real passion. Worked 5.5 days a week, long hours, fantastic money, enjoyed Saturday nights but saved most of it, had an SSIA. Went back to my original trade in 2010 after road building ended. So yeah for me the tiger was great. It did however, bring out the worst greed in a lot of people I knew.

Missed it all, but on trips back home was struck by the preposterousness of people thinking selling houses to each other at inflated prices was an economy (it wasn't, it was a rip off). The ostentatious money talk was ugly and from the outside looking in, it was OBVIOUS it couldn't last. Glad I missed it, TBH.

Wanderer78

it worked perfectly for what and who it was intended for, rapidly inflating asset prices, in particular related to property and land!

nialler1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118265101#Comment_118265101

Glad I wasn’t the only one that came into this expecting a conversation around whether he was all that good a golfer.