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Who to turn to?

  • 27-11-2021 12:35am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3 Dooin


    I have a perplexing issue which I'm hoping someone may be able to guide and advice. I live in a small community, moved here 3 years ago, where I'm the 2nd last house in the street, a dairy farm is the last. Two years ago the mother of the home farm passed away and now the grandson is living there (his father & their family live across the road). Since, the farm has expanded considerably, not only in herd size but there is continuous farm expansion works being carried out without local council permission sought eg effluent storage tanks, raised land, closing in of open drains, converting and raising of existing track roads, removal of public ditches, the list goes on. I have attempted and tried to raise these concerns with my local council however it falls upon deaf ears and am made feel like I'm the hindrance. To put it in perspective this neighbour is 30 meters from my door and bit by bit is building supermarket without planning permission. My question is who is it, beside local council (they wont listen), I contact to report this unregulated agriculture farm expansion?



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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭ K.G.


    You may or may not be new to rural living but by the sounds of what you have described this is typical of a situation where a farm is upgrading after a transfer to the younger generation. My guess is it will settle down when the money runs out or the work becomes apparent to young generation. Thread very carefully about getting involved as invariably it could make life difficult for yourself as country folk don't like people coming to an Area and dictating what should and shouldn't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Dooin


    I hear you K.G and thank you for your insight and advice. 30 years agriculture experience albeit abroad.

    Besides Local Council is there regulatory body I can raise/flag my concerns re agriculture development?



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭ Oscar Madison




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭ JustJoe7240


    Is it actually causing you any sort of hindrance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭ Reggie.


    How are the works affecting you



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Dooin


    They've unearthed a slurry tank, 9 meters from my home and 30 meters from my well (only source of water) and closed in my open drain on my property, raised it/my land by 2 meters for their yard water/effluent runoff without my permission. They created a secondary farm yard entrance using my drain as their yard water run off (supposed to have their own soakaway but using my drain instead). Also removed an old perimeter pier between our two fields making way for the new road they put in taking out my field corner by approx. 2x8. I'm not getting anywhere with my Local Council regarding these issues (plus more, keeps growing) and don't know who to turn to?



  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ einn32


    Yehp I'd be going to a solicitor if you are alleging that something illegal is being done or you're alleging your property has been altered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ grange mac


    Wow.... Get a solicitor... That will do three things... One piss off neighbour, two go nowhere until you go long way down that road and cost serious money as a solicitor letter worth Jack **** without following up... And legal system works in years in this country extremely slow.

    Why don't you just call over and try speaking to them and tell them your concerns. Resolve issues amicably.

    Get on with your life rather than going down road that will take years to achieve anything.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Also read up on exempt farm developments on local planning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries


    The solicitor Idea is a good one to start. it's costly, but if you think your property has been disturbed the solicitor will know your exact boundaries off of the folio maps you will have to document it and probably employ an engineer to verify some stuff get your duck's in a row first. Then approach the farmer and voice your concerns (if you haven't already) as others have said it's probably not going to end up in harmony but it sounds from your statements that there's no harmony anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭ pg633


    Have you spoken to them directly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    Farmers in farming communities have a way of doing things that's just how it is... is there mains water in the area? I expect the one thing you can ask council about is if your source of water is being affected... If the tank was there in the past likely not much can be done there...

    Was it a member of the same (neighbor) family you bought the house from... I forgot to say i remember some years ago a friend having to sign something so a neighbor across the road could build a dry farm shed...

    Post edited by maestroamado on


  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ einn32


    Yeah talking to people is always the first and best option but the Op has already complained to the council. I think it's too late. He/she rocks up to have a chat with the farmer would not be a great idea at this stage I feel. Most farmers would be pissed off with this council complaint. Solicitor will provide advice on whether the OP has an issue or not. It's only some advice.

    One thing that is odd is that council's receiving complaints like that would have to record them so the falling on deaf ears comment is strange.

    In any event I suspect there is a lot more to this and we only have one side of the story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,157 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    What is a "public ditch" ???????



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries




  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries


    I would agree with your sentiments there definitely not the full story but it still doesn't rule out the op being correct on some of the issues



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭ Jb1989


    Agreed, the op wrote a very polite post, with genuine questions in their eyes.

    I knew the backlash from some farmers would come immediately, instead of simply answering the op questions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭ Mooooo


    OP, talking with the people involved should always be the first port of call. If the council have heard your complaints there is the possibility that what he is doing is legal, particularly if its upgrading existing infrastructure. Same as ditches they can be removed at this time of year as well

    If you have moved in 4 years ago I'd imagine there would be no need to go to a solicitor as I assume you would have boundary maps etc from completing your own sale.

    By all means if there are issues for you raise them, but they must be genuine issues affecting you, not just things you don't like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries


    Ya maybe some of the more reasonable posters will no the questions to ask to tease out the issue with the op if he she is willing to invest the time and take a bit of flack

    It is farmers first instinct to be defensive I think. Especially with some of the stuff at the moment non related to this thread obviously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    If they have put new slurry storage in, that's within 50m of your well, you have them by the balls, on the otherhand if their was already existing slurry storage in place that was within 50 metres of the well when you drilled it, it's your own fault for locating it their.....

    Went through something similar with the local council here where a faulty septic tank was leaking into our field, it took a few years but the home-owner eventually had to spend 20k on a completely new system, you basically need to write into the council , list of the regulations that you think the farmer has broke, is breaking and then ring weekly demanding to speak to whoever is over your case, make a complete nuisance of yourself, they will eventually not answer phones/email then you need to go into the planning office and demand to speak to whoever is over your case....

    If what your saying is true, their is unauthorised development taking place, if that's the case the council has to issue notice to the farmer in question to explain himself and either apply for retention on his unauthorised developments, our take down and put back any developments to their original state.....

    If he ignores the above then they are required to issue a enforcement notice and bring him to court, that will then rule and if in your favour he will be fined 5-10k a day for every day that the unauthorised developments are left in place and our get a custodial sentence



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler



    +1 on that, there's two sides to every story and we're only getting one side. A farmer would be very foolish to build anything nowadays without planning permission. As for him doing digger work on someone elses land...... where was the landowner when this was going on.

    The fact that the County Council isn't moving on an unauthorised developement is highly unlikely. They'd be onto it very quick especially where slurry tanks are involved. You've given good advice to anyone in that position to resolve it



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,706 ✭✭✭✭ Green&Red


    OP, I was reading through your list there, im wondering which you feel this lad needs planning for?


    effluent storage tanks - I’m not sure you need planning

    raised land - he’s entitled to raise his land as he sees fit

    closing in of open drains- I’d presume he owns the drain, he’s allowed drain his land

    converting and raising of existing track roads - environmentally an improvement

    removal of public ditches - no such thing as a public ditch. Like it or not he’s allowed remove ditches during a window



  • Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭ GNWoodd


    What do you mean unearthed a slurry tank ? If a new tank has gone in , within nine meters of a dwelling house it is not exempted development .

    Has the Council inspected the property and have you seen their report? The Council should be asked for a declaration as to whether what has taken place is regarded by them as development . If it is development it requires Planning Permission . If they don’t regard it as development there is little you can do .



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,234 ✭✭✭✭ Graces7


    Some of this merits the direct attention of the Environmental section of the Council. We had some similar issues; they came out and were very thorough and effective.

    Supermarket? Can you report directly to the Planning Dept? Again ( when I lived in deep rural. I had similar experiences to you) they acted. Or your TD? AND your TD...Involve any official you can directly



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  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭ n1st


    Definitely a tricky situation being neighbours.

    Commercial farming should be treated like any other commercial enterprise, planning permission etc.

    I think you'll have to explain your side to the farmer.

    Second option is to talk to the county council, has the farmer permission to increase sheds etc.

    If your neighbor was a factory producing chemicals, what would the situation be?



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