Who to turn to?

Dooin · 27-11-2021 1:35am #1

I have a perplexing issue which I'm hoping someone may be able to guide and advice. I live in a small community, moved here 3 years ago, where I'm the 2nd last house in the street, a dairy farm is the last. Two years ago the mother of the home farm passed away and now the grandson is living there (his father & their family live across the road). Since, the farm has expanded considerably, not only in herd size but there is continuous farm expansion works being carried out without local council permission sought eg effluent storage tanks, raised land, closing in of open drains, converting and raising of existing track roads, removal of public ditches, the list goes on. I have attempted and tried to raise these concerns with my local council however it falls upon deaf ears and am made feel like I'm the hindrance. To put it in perspective this neighbour is 30 meters from my door and bit by bit is building supermarket without planning permission. My question is who is it, beside local council (they wont listen), I contact to report this unregulated agriculture farm expansion?

K.G. · 27-11-2021 2:00am

You may or may not be new to rural living but by the sounds of what you have described this is typical of a situation where a farm is upgrading after a transfer to the younger generation. My guess is it will settle down when the money runs out or the work becomes apparent to young generation. Thread very carefully about getting involved as invariably it could make life difficult for yourself as country folk don't like people coming to an Area and dictating what should and shouldn't happen.

Dooin · 27-11-2021 2:42am

I hear you K.G and thank you for your insight and advice. 30 years agriculture experience albeit abroad.

Besides Local Council is there regulatory body I can raise/flag my concerns re agriculture development?

Oscar Madison · 27-11-2021 2:44am

Home | Environmental Protection Agency (epa.ie)

JustJoe7240 · 27-11-2021 2:45am

Is it actually causing you any sort of hindrance?

Reggie. · 27-11-2021 2:45am

How are the works affecting you

Dooin · 27-11-2021 3:39am

They've unearthed a slurry tank, 9 meters from my home and 30 meters from my well (only source of water) and closed in my open drain on my property, raised it/my land by 2 meters for their yard water/effluent runoff without my permission. They created a secondary farm yard entrance using my drain as their yard water run off (supposed to have their own soakaway but using my drain instead). Also removed an old perimeter pier between our two fields making way for the new road they put in taking out my field corner by approx. 2x8. I'm not getting anywhere with my Local Council regarding these issues (plus more, keeps growing) and don't know who to turn to?

_Brian · 27-11-2021 4:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230727#Comment_118230727

If they are indeed interfering with your property you need to work with a solicitor on the issue.

einn32 · 27-11-2021 6:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230746#Comment_118230746

Yehp I'd be going to a solicitor if you are alleging that something illegal is being done or you're alleging your property has been altered.

grange mac · 27-11-2021 8:41am

Wow.... Get a solicitor... That will do three things... One piss off neighbour, two go nowhere until you go long way down that road and cost serious money as a solicitor letter worth Jack **** without following up... And legal system works in years in this country extremely slow.

Why don't you just call over and try speaking to them and tell them your concerns. Resolve issues amicably.

Get on with your life rather than going down road that will take years to achieve anything.

downtown3858 · 27-11-2021 9:10am

I’d advise you to do one off 3 things…

just stay out of it and mind ur own business

move away

go speak to farmers yourself

involving Solicitor only costs you money and will make matters worse and you will end up just moving after all this. I’m 100% sure of this . Farmers don’t take this lightly. Moving in on top off him and trying to dictate wat can and can’t be done . Thread carefully

Lime Tree Farm · 27-11-2021 9:23am

Also read up on exempt farm developments on local planning.

green daries · 27-11-2021 9:35am

The solicitor Idea is a good one to start. it's costly, but if you think your property has been disturbed the solicitor will know your exact boundaries off of the folio maps you will have to document it and probably employ an engineer to verify some stuff get your duck's in a row first. Then approach the farmer and voice your concerns (if you haven't already) as others have said it's probably not going to end up in harmony but it sounds from your statements that there's no harmony anyway.

27-11-2021 9:43am

Have you spoken to them directly?

Timfy · 27-11-2021 9:52am

I disagree with the whole "mind your own business" sentiment here. If the OPs land is being interfered with, water supplies put at risk and drainage issues being raised then it certainly is his business. This is not a case of a townie moving to Mayo and complaining that the cows are too loud!

An initial trip to a solicitor to get a definitive set of drawings of the property's involved including info on water courses, supplies and legally binding drainage requirements would be a good start. Armed with this I would replace all my boundaries and approach the farm owner and cordially raise your concerns.

If this gets you nowhere you have two ways to go. Arbitration through a third party with the carrot and stick approach of having plenty of violations already recorded, meaning the farm may wish to steer clear of the courts or secondly you can go nuclear and bring in the EPA, planning regulatory board etc. This will be costly as it will mean solicitors fees and your day in court.

Actually a third option would be to officially inform the farm that due to their latest works they are required to drill you a new well, replace fencing, piers etc and upgrade the now shared drainage... this may spur them into considering their options!

maestroamado · 27-11-2021 9:53am

Farmers in farming communities have a way of doing things that's just how it is... is there mains water in the area? I expect the one thing you can ask council about is if your source of water is being affected... If the tank was there in the past likely not much can be done there...

Was it a member of the same (neighbor) family you bought the house from... I forgot to say i remember some years ago a friend having to sign something so a neighbor across the road could build a dry farm shed...

einn32 · 27-11-2021 9:58am

Yeah talking to people is always the first and best option but the Op has already complained to the council. I think it's too late. He/she rocks up to have a chat with the farmer would not be a great idea at this stage I feel. Most farmers would be pissed off with this council complaint. Solicitor will provide advice on whether the OP has an issue or not. It's only some advice.

One thing that is odd is that council's receiving complaints like that would have to record them so the falling on deaf ears comment is strange.

In any event I suspect there is a lot more to this and we only have one side of the story.

Donald Trump · 27-11-2021 10:26am

What is a "public ditch" ???????

green daries · 27-11-2021 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231008#Comment_118231008

Ya a good question

green daries · 27-11-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230941#Comment_118230941

I would agree with your sentiments there definitely not the full story but it still doesn't rule out the op being correct on some of the issues

Jb1989 · 27-11-2021 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231073#Comment_118231073

Agreed, the op wrote a very polite post, with genuine questions in their eyes.

I knew the backlash from some farmers would come immediately, instead of simply answering the op questions.

Mooooo · 27-11-2021 10:56am

OP, talking with the people involved should always be the first port of call. If the council have heard your complaints there is the possibility that what he is doing is legal, particularly if its upgrading existing infrastructure. Same as ditches they can be removed at this time of year as well

If you have moved in 4 years ago I'd imagine there would be no need to go to a solicitor as I assume you would have boundary maps etc from completing your own sale.

By all means if there are issues for you raise them, but they must be genuine issues affecting you, not just things you don't like.

green daries · 27-11-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231088#Comment_118231088

Ya maybe some of the more reasonable posters will no the questions to ask to tease out the issue with the op if he she is willing to invest the time and take a bit of flack

It is farmers first instinct to be defensive I think. Especially with some of the stuff at the moment non related to this thread obviously.

jaymla627 · 27-11-2021 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230727#Comment_118230727

If they have put new slurry storage in, that's within 50m of your well, you have them by the balls, on the otherhand if their was already existing slurry storage in place that was within 50 metres of the well when you drilled it, it's your own fault for locating it their.....

Went through something similar with the local council here where a faulty septic tank was leaking into our field, it took a few years but the home-owner eventually had to spend 20k on a completely new system, you basically need to write into the council , list of the regulations that you think the farmer has broke, is breaking and then ring weekly demanding to speak to whoever is over your case, make a complete nuisance of yourself, they will eventually not answer phones/email then you need to go into the planning office and demand to speak to whoever is over your case....

If what your saying is true, their is unauthorised development taking place, if that's the case the council has to issue notice to the farmer in question to explain himself and either apply for retention on his unauthorised developments, our take down and put back any developments to their original state.....

If he ignores the above then they are required to issue a enforcement notice and bring him to court, that will then rule and if in your favour he will be fined 5-10k a day for every day that the unauthorised developments are left in place and our get a custodial sentence

wrangler · 27-11-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231356#Comment_118231356

+1 on that, there's two sides to every story and we're only getting one side. A farmer would be very foolish to build anything nowadays without planning permission. As for him doing digger work on someone elses land...... where was the landowner when this was going on.

The fact that the County Council isn't moving on an unauthorised developement is highly unlikely. They'd be onto it very quick especially where slurry tanks are involved. You've given good advice to anyone in that position to resolve it

Green&Red · 27-11-2021 12:37pm

OP, I was reading through your list there, im wondering which you feel this lad needs planning for?

effluent storage tanks - I’m not sure you need planning

raised land - he’s entitled to raise his land as he sees fit

closing in of open drains- I’d presume he owns the drain, he’s allowed drain his land

converting and raising of existing track roads - environmentally an improvement

removal of public ditches - no such thing as a public ditch. Like it or not he’s allowed remove ditches during a window

GNWoodd · 27-11-2021 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230727#Comment_118230727

What do you mean unearthed a slurry tank ? If a new tank has gone in , within nine meters of a dwelling house it is not exempted development .

Has the Council inspected the property and have you seen their report? The Council should be asked for a declaration as to whether what has taken place is regarded by them as development . If it is development it requires Planning Permission . If they don’t regard it as development there is little you can do .

paddysdream · 27-11-2021 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231415#Comment_118231415

Think you are not allowed close an open drain that takes water from the public road but not certain .Know that strictly speaking you must ask the council before deepening /widening a watercourse or drain adjoining a public road .

Similar thing with a drain on your land that takes water from a neighbouring farmer etc .You can't just close it in and cause damage further upstream .

Raising or lowering of land is not as simple as you might think either .You cannot just decide to drop a field 3m or raise it up by a large amount .

Hedge removal is not allowed without pre approval although if its not too noticable then you may get away with it

All those are just asides though .Its more the attitude to the OP which seems to be a common one on here .Before anyone asks ;yes I am a farmer ;we have lived here 200 plus years so no blow in ;have built lots without planning ;have drained land removed ditches and lots of other very ungreen stuff and still do it .

All that said ,some people think they have a God given right to do what they like by virtue of living in the area longer than someone else or because they are a "farmer " and a wee bit of that seeps out at times .

Graces7 · 27-11-2021 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058220018/who-to-turn-to

Some of this merits the direct attention of the Environmental section of the Council. We had some similar issues; they came out and were very thorough and effective.

Supermarket? Can you report directly to the Planning Dept? Again ( when I lived in deep rural. I had similar experiences to you) they acted. Or your TD? AND your TD...Involve any official you can directly

Wishbone Ash · 27-11-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230838#Comment_118230838

Why would you be worried about pissing off a neighbour when the neighbour has already pissed off the OP?

n1st · 27-11-2021 6:46pm

Definitely a tricky situation being neighbours.

Commercial farming should be treated like any other commercial enterprise, planning permission etc.

I think you'll have to explain your side to the farmer.

Second option is to talk to the county council, has the farmer permission to increase sheds etc.

If your neighbor was a factory producing chemicals, what would the situation be?

Who to turn to?

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