Drug use in Ireland

katherineconlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238927#Comment_118238927

Probably a placebo. Coke like other stimulants (amphetamines) suppresses digestion.

The cocaine in Ireland is probably not even real. €90 per gram and most of it is mixed with cutting agents.

2ndcoming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238712#Comment_118238712

Keith Richards and Ozzy Osbourne must be made of the stuff

victor8600

I am for the legalization of drugs. Not because I want anyone to use drugs, myself included, as I know what the (nicotine) addiction is. My reasons are:

1) Illegal drugs mean that addicts can be forced to steal or murder for the drug gang, or be killed themselves over a small debt.

2) "Drugs are bad". Cut substances containing drugs are even worse, either people ingest some unknown additives, or they overdose.

3) I hope that part of the income from selling drugs can go towards treating drug addiction.

Tony EH

The legalisation of drugs won't get rid of any of that.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253283#Comment_118253283

If you're talking about the post previous to yours I'm pretty sure it would get rid of point 2 of his post or could you please elaborate why it wouldn't?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253486#Comment_118253486

None of the points mentioned will be eliminated by the legalisation of drugs. Because the gangs are just going to undercut the "legal" price of the drug and continue selling their own shit, which they'll continue to lace with whatever as a means of bulking.

Being an addict costs money irrespective of who's selling what. In the case of heroin, it can be a lot of money...especially relative to the income of most addicts for whom the addiction becomes their life and they'll go for the cheapest option possible, whilst telling themselves that the risk is worth it or just plain ignoring the risks completely.

The only way legalising something like heroin would "work", is for state services to manufacture and sell it at an incredibly cheap price without heavy taxation.

And that is most certainly not going to happen. So the criminal market will always have room to operate.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253631#Comment_118253631

Possibly, I suppose it would all mostly depend on how legislation was planned out and implemented, I'm really 50/50 on whether the effects of legalising all drugs would have a positive or negative result.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253631#Comment_118253631

Although, thinking about it would the drug dealers really be able to sell it cheaper than the state? Use cocaine for an example the price here is 100 euro a gram for stuff nowhere near as pure as what you would get in Columbia for 3 euro a gram.

Now you may say that if we made the price of drugs cheaper than it is now then drug use would skyrocket but is that really true? Cocaine use in the USA and UK is said to be 5 times higher than it is in Columbia despite cocaine being so widely available and costing next to nothing in Columbia.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253631#Comment_118253631

If you were to provide heroin , is it as maintenance option or with a detox plan.

I'm kinda lost as to why we would provide it , bearing in mind both suboxone and methadone are provided as a substitute under the harm reduction umbrella.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253936#Comment_118253936

Illegal ciggies are already sold at a cheaper price than the state. Millions going into the pockets of gangs every year.

The thing is, if something like drugs are going to be legally sold by the state (a ridiculous idea to begin with in the first place), it would mean regulation. Regulation means that certain things won't get through. It would also mean taxation and we have already seen what that means for cigarettes and alcohol, which are used by the state as a means to amass revenue. The same thing will happen with drugs if they are to be sold in the same way. That, right there, leaves the door open for the criminal element to exploit.

The idea of legalising drugs and then hoping that the criminal element would just fade away is a complete fantasy because of the very real logical blockers that are thrown up by such. The state would, literally, have to be selling the drugs at such a low price (and at a low tax rate) that it simply wouldn't be worth the bother and we'd probably end up worse off in the long run.

There's no easy way out of this issue. But legalising drugs, as a whole, is certainly no path to a criminal free marketplace that's for sure.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253950#Comment_118253950

Providing heroin to an addict would hardly be part of any logical detox plan.

With regards to suboxone and methadone, both are a poor substitute for heroin, so I understand. Drug addicts used to sign up for methadone to augment their heroin use a number of years ago, when the checks and balances were a lot looser than they are now. i think these days you have to prove some sort of commitment to getting clean before you can enter a programme.

But this is kind of besides the point being made in the "legalise drugs" argument.

Look, I'll be blunt...a lot of people who trot out "legalise drugs" are usually only interested in that because it'll make their own drug of choice easier to get and remove the criminal stigma too. For those folk, that's where their interest in this topic ends. They're just not bothered to smoke test the idea on even the shallowest level because it's not part of the end game for them.

There are some people who genuinely believe that legalising drugs will eliminate the criminal element however. But I haven't seen any real argument from them to convince me. There may be a case to be made that it'll dent their market a bit, but I don't think that that's enough, and the criminal world is remarkably adaptable.

You know, something like heroin is illegal not because governments want to stop people having a "good time". It's that way because it's devastating to the user, their families and society as a whole. Very hard to see the government doing an about face on something like that any time soon.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253631#Comment_118253631

its about quality not price, gangs can’t smuggle or grow the good stuff

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254737#Comment_118254737

Addicts with money might care about "quality" of their junk. Addicts without money only care about their fix and if the can get that at a cheaper price, they'll do so.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253283#Comment_118253283

How do you know, where can I can I buy the crystal ball you possess.

Tomaldo

Prohibition has failed it was 50 years ago since Nixon declared The War on Drugs and they were illegal then, has it not registered with your prohibitionist's mindset, that it has failed. Legalize, if it doesn't work out revert to prohibition. Let's not knock it 'til we try it.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254794#Comment_118254794

You're only interested in getting your coke easier. 😉

I have no time for you.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254815#Comment_118254815

As i said earlier I've taken it 3 times this year, you have no time for the truth like all supporters of The War on Drugs. Can you not handle the fact that people enjoy coke. I'm going to miss your puritanical opinions.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254300#Comment_118254300

They already have legalized heroin via the methadone system, injection rooms are coming soon and addicts can get a clean needle in Merchants Quay, some countries give actual heroin to addicts. In the past 5 years the HSE has given out 50,000 crack pipes to crack addicts, google it.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254300#Comment_118254300

Both methadone and suboxone are provided in Ireland as an opiate substitutes as maintenance programs in the hope addicts may look for detox, I'm not sure what you mean describing them as a poor substitute , the idea behind methadone is harm reduction...reduce the risk to the individual from IV use , BBV and so on.

Methadone functions differently from heroin in the body.

You are correct about methadone prescription being lax years ago , nowadays the criteria is based on you showing a need for methadone, very simply heroin must show up in a series of urines you provide.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118255213#Comment_118255213

I know what they are and what they are proscribed for.

As far as the likes of methadone being a poor substitute, that's the words of addicts, because as you say it "functions differently from heroin", which is really what the addict is craving for. However, these days the addict has to prove their willingness to get clean in order to be part of a programme which uses those substitutes to aid them in the recovery.

But the high from methadone isn't really like the one you get from heroin ( <- again, addicts information), hence why it's considered a "poor substitute". But the theory is by the time and addict is admitted to a programme, they have already truly decided to kick the habit. The methadone is simply administered so the addict isn't going completely cold turkey.

Eircom_Sucks

amount of know it all's when it comes to drugs and the amount of users is shocking tbh

100 % never touched a drug in my life ( i mean hash , cocaine , heroine etc )

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118257148#Comment_118257148

Do you work in addiction services ?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118258967#Comment_118258967

No.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118257148#Comment_118257148

No addict has to prove anything other than they use heroin in order to access methadone.

Methadone maintenance is the first step , it's a long way from a Methadone detox.

What program , "admitted to a program " are you talking about ?

Methadone is prescribed as an opiate substitute initially at a low dose and raised gradually to allow a prescribing GP find a dosage that holds an addict.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260749#Comment_118260749

I'll take your word for it that "No addict has to prove anything other than they use heroin in order to access methadone."

That's not really my point though. Methadone is used as a method to wean addicts off of heroin in detox programmes designed to achieve that.

Look, I'm loath to go into details here on a public message board because this involves other people and it's their information that's informed me, but I'm unsure as to what the disconnect is here.

Tomaldo

I can't believe the number of people who support The War on Drugs. Have they been brainwashed by prohibitionist propaganda which rarely, if ever, gets challenged by a compliant and incompetent media. I remember when ecstasy became popular in the early 90's, some of my friends took it but I was too scared to, having read the rubbish in the newspapers, such as people thinking they could fly when they were on it. Eventually I tried it, several times, enjoyed it, got bored with it and gave it up, like my friends did.

Cocaine is an expensive drug. A hundred bag wouldn't see you through the night and could take a few hundred euro worth yourself in a night and your heart be pounding for the day afterwards.

Unfortunately in Ireland the scummy dealers mix it with speed so want to know a reliable dealer along with numerous other shite.

Most people get out of taking speed, coke, MMDA when they finally realise they know longer have three months off in the summer to do what they like.

The weed is **** in Ireland as well compared to other countries, nearly make ya sick the fast growing strain they use.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260757#Comment_118260757

Not at all , I appreciate your points.

katherineconlan

Question for those who have used hard drugs, can you use the likes of cocaine, speed, and heroin without getting addicted and ending up homeless?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118262853#Comment_118262853

Is this actually serious?