Drug use in Ireland

katherineconlan

Drug use has increased massively in the last 20 years. Coke is now consumed as much if not more than alcohol on a night out and the Gardai are becoming loose with their attitudes on cannabis. When will we see other drugs (ecstasy, meth, opioids) decriminalized or even legalized?

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219780/drug-use-in-ireland

The sooner the better, the War on Drugs has failed. Why not try legalization for a couple of years, if it doesn't work out, revert to prohibition.

global23214124

I would legalise everything so people can consume non mixed drugs if they are going to be consuming anyways. Would stop overdoes I'd say if there were safe injection centres too. Not everyone that's addicted is going to be able to give up at the drop of a hat so we need safe facilities for people to use. Criminalizing drug use has not worked so its time for a different approach.

katherineconlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223806#Comment_118223806

Truth be told, we could solve the heroin problem in Ireland if doctors prescribed pharmaceutical opioids like oxycodone and fentanyl which already exist here. Would probably get rid of the need for injection sites as users would just ingest the pill.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223626#Comment_118223626

And reverting back would be easy?

All drugs should be legal because having them illegal will never stop people taking them and there's money to be made from taxing them which could in turn fund better education about drug use rather than keeping them illegal and funding gangs.

Housefree

I would have to walk further for alcohol than banned substances, you friendly coke dealer usually delivers

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224312#Comment_118224312

They couldn't become more common

Danzy

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224312#Comment_118224312

Yes , we saw how easy it was to ban the Head Shops. More recently when we eased restrictions during Covid, it wasn't difficult to reintroduce them.

t

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219780/drug-use-in-ireland

I doubt very much drug use has increased massively in 20 years. There have always been a lot of drugs, it's just the type of drug has changed.

I'm mid 40s, and the early 90s there were drugs everywhere! Ecstasy, speed, acid, weed, all huge back then. Coke use has increased, it's far cheaper now.

There were a lot more heroin addicts back then too.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224462#Comment_118224462

Well I'm not so sure it would shut down the illegal market. A very small percentage of the cannabis bought in California is made legally. It's a lot more expensive to make it with a license.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219780/drug-use-in-ireland

Legalise all drugs. Introduce a drug buying licence where you have to pass a knowledge test showing you are aware of each drugs characteristics and dangers, it gets endorsed for it and you can then buy it from a Pharmacy or specialised outlet.

The amount of money saved on policing, courts and incarceration would be prodigious. The sky hasn't fallen anywhere drugs have been legalised.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225785#Comment_118225785

I don't think the effects of drug taking are at a neutral cost to the state/society. Legalising will certainly reduce cost for some areas but will increase them for others.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225810#Comment_118225810

No it won't. The medical costs are already there, you would get VAT from the drug sales and liscencing and drug use usually decreases when they are legalised.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225826#Comment_118225826

I wouldn't like to hang a drug policy on "usually".

Also, would the use of illegal drugs not still remain - non VAT levied and non licenced products?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225879#Comment_118225879

The high price of drugs is usually due to their illegality and they are often of dangerous quality due to poisonous additives. Legalised drugs made to high standards might even be cheaper. I wouldn't know, but is heroin cheaper than diamorphine, which is medical heroin?

Have a look at the cost savings mentioned here: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/09/drug-addicts-to-receive-diamorphine-twice-a-day-in-uk-first-scheme

I know that opium poppies are grown in Tasmania on specialy licensed farms with high security costs, to produce medical grade opioids. The high security costs of all stages of the industry would be reduced dramatically if the end product were available legally.

There is plenty of real world data on which to base a sane drugs policy. You wouldn't need to rely on my 'usually'. This is a casual coversation, not a Phd dissertation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219780/drug-use-in-ireland

Drug use has increased massively in the last 20 years.

[Citation needed]

Coke is now consumed as much if not more than alcohol on a night out

Completely false, I'm afraid

and the Gardai are becoming loose with their attitudes on cannabis.

Again, completely false

When will we see other drugs (ecstasy, meth, opioids) decriminalized or even legalized?

Other drugs? Why, what drugs have already been decriminalised or legalised?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224344#Comment_118224344

Pretty much every single brewery and every single supermarket (bar a few) offer delivery services these days. Truth is, you don't have to walk anywhere, bar the front door.

Housefree

'Pretty much every single brewery and every single supermarket (bar a few) offer delivery services these days. Truth is, you don't have to walk anywhere, bar the front door.'

At 3am on a Saturday?

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225698#Comment_118225698

A lot of clothes, designer makes, football jerseys etc are made and sold illegally. I never hear any calls for the genuine ones to be banned.,

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223836#Comment_118223836

Like methadone or suboxone ?

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223836#Comment_118223836

Good lord, you are some way out of touch if you believe your local friendly intravenous heroine user will hand over their needles and suffice with swallowing said heroine, and waiting patiently for a kick.

katherineconlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227891#Comment_118227891

I know I'd rather consume diamorphine pills that have gone through quality control than buy the same chemical on the black market and inject it. Sure the rush is decreased but there's much less risk of dying of overdose and you know exactly what's in it.

Besides, the junkies will probably just get the diamorphine tablets from the pharmacy, ground them up, and inject them (assuming they don't contain nasty binding agents).

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219780/drug-use-in-ireland

People seem to forget that unlike other countries cocaine use in Ireland is largely confined to the working class.

There's this national obsession that coke is the best friend of every other household in Foxrock and Kiliney.

Sit in a toilet cubicle in a pub in Rathgar for an hour on a Friday night, sit in one in Finglas on Saturday. Count how many times you hear someone hoovering away in another cubicle. If cocaine is so rampant in south west Dublin how come the wealthiest drug gangs in the state don't originate in the handful of working class enclaves in that area (Shankill, Ballybrack, parts of DL and Leopardstown). How often do you read a news story about a young man Dun Laoghaoire Rathdown in court and the defense giving the "battling a cocaine addiction" mitigation?

Mate of mine worked in one of the main banks, now it was fairly lower level admin stuff but still. He reckoned of 60 people on the floor, all 45 or younger, he would be surprised if more than 5 or 6 of them had ever taken anything stronger than a vodka. They were simply a very straight laced, middle class set. He was always surprised how many of them were in the process of buying houses given the wages were muck, but they were simply all former students accustomed to living that tight fisted student lifestyle, that's how they accumulated their money. Penneys clothes, Eurosaver McDonalds and 7 pints and a Nightlink constituting a wild night out.

Drug use transcends class in other countries but in this country your average cocaine addict is a construction worker with money to burn.

Caolan and Sorcha who live in Deansgrange didn't get 500 points in their leaving and climbed the ladder at KPMG by going out sessioning from Thursday to Sunday.

I have little doubt cocaine is rampant in the higher ends of the media, music business, the property developer garish new money types of the 2000's, and other aspects of the arts, but anybody who thinks people as boring as your average former Trinity economics student is hoovering coke all weekend needs a reality check.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223836#Comment_118223836

have you not seen america ? not aware of the massive damage prescribed meds already do in Ireland ?

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225698#Comment_118225698

Good point!

To be honest I shake my head when ever the topic of legalising drugs comes up. Like people have notions that everything will be better if legal. There'd still be scumbag dealers selling a cheaper drug.

Sure what do they say, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232436#Comment_118232436

Please explain your last sentence as I am sure I must have misunderstood it. Thank you

Graces7

When I was trading at a market in a small town, a few of the stallholders were chatting as it was quiet. I am old and limp when I walk, and we got talking re dealing with pain. I mentioned prescription codeine . Someone had already whispered to me that one of the stall holders sold illegal drugs. This lady came up to me and told me that she could sell me ?? cannot remember the name.. cheaper than codeine. Quite openly in the market. As I told her, I get my prescriptions free ... That was my first - and last - encounter with a drug pusher!

mikethecop

That prescribed medication already does huge damage in Ireland with out the introduction of oxycodone ?

Graces7

Thanks. But what I meant was what you allege re prescribed meds doing so much harm? Mine are vital to my .... well my life. Valued greatly

breezy1985

“What next? Somebody will be murdered, and then where are we? Drive by shootings in the night, it'll be like Boys n the Hood. And then they'll have hoes selling their wares in the middle of the street and the pimps will be using crack cocaine to keep the whores under control.”

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232476#Comment_118232476

And I shake my head when anti-drug supporters say let's continue with prohibition. It's about 50 years since Nixon declared The War on Drugs and they were illegal then. It"only" took 6 to defeat Hitler. I love the way prohibitionists can predict the future, will u lend me your crystal ball, I wanna get the winning lottery numbers.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232615#Comment_118232615

Well see, theres a tiny problem with what you said there - I am not an anti-drug supporter. I don't care what people put in their body. Personal choice. But let's be realistic here. You can't just flip the switch and make drugs legal without problems. It's not all going to magically fit together and be fine.

It's not about having a magic ball. It's called foresight. Take those head shops years ago. They were still selling illegal drugs under the counter and one shop even burned down - by drug dealers it was suspected. See all that was a variable. An unforeseen variable. If you wish drugs to be legal then that's fine. You have to accept that it will not go smoothly and there will be unforeseen variables.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232599#Comment_118232599

great for you, mabey you have a better doctor or a more prsonsilble with your meds that some .

there is a massive out of control and hugely damaging opiate problem in the US and a lit if it is down to greedy doctors and dodgy pharma , dopesick is the current show about it

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232643#Comment_118232643

There are even more problems with prohibition. The above link about the Marks program explains them.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232777#Comment_118232777

Then there's also problems with that. As I say, there's always variables. Nothing of this nature is smooth sailing.

Like, my two cents are that hash will be legal at some point in Ireland. You see places like California doing it and Ireland is the same country that brought in Smoking Ban, Gay marriage, first female president yonks ago. What I mean is I don't think its a far stretch to say hash will be legal at some point.

Something like coke could never be. To make cocaine you have to use kerosene and bleach to break down the coca leaf. There's no way say, on one hand you have special shops selling that. Then on the other we still have drug manufacturing laws.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232865#Comment_118232865

I don't know anything legal which is 100% perfect, but there is room for vast improvement concerning the laws on drugs. Prohibition has failed why not try legalization, lets not knock it 'til we try it. If your opinion is accurate then revert to prohibition. I believe cocaine could and should be made legal. The use of kerosene and bleach in its production hasn't deterred people from taking it, including myself. If legal it's more likely to be safer. As it is over 99% who take it do not die from it.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232657#Comment_118232657

Heroin didn't take your friends life; they did, or the problems associated with drug illegality did.

Many years ago, I attended a talk in a foreign country about drugs, given by a chief coroner. He said that on every single day of the year, he could point to a body on his slab that was there because of alcohol consumption and that in a given year, he might get one that was attributable to heroin use, but then emphasised that unlike the alcohol deaths which were due to it's toxicity, the heroin ones were the result of dosing accidents caused by the great variability in purity or occasionally due to toxicity of the substances it was cut with. Both of these were a direct result of the illegality of the drug, not the drug itself, which is not toxic and is widely used in hospitals worldwide as diamorphine. He argued that if addicts had access to known dose high purity heroin, like diamorphine, accidental overdoses wouldn't hardly occur and the deaths from it's use would be near zero. He gave the example of wealthy middle class professionals, who were long term users and who had been using heroin for 30+ years with no appreciable negative health consequences.

There have been a couple of highly publicised and hyped deaths in the Uk attributed to MDMA use. The reporting is usually entirely and deliberately deceitful and in the same category as attributing deaths to heroin, rather than the negative factors in it's supply chain. The stories are slanted to portray MDMA as a dangerous drug and that the 'victims' died because of this. What actually happened was that the 'victims' poisoned themselves with water by drinking too much of it because they had read stories warning of dehydration while raving and had overcompensated and drank too much water in too short a time span, which leads to a reduction in salinity of the blood supply and then death.

The illegality, and ignorance about drugs that it encourages, is the most deadly aspect of illicit drugs, and that is probably less than the damage from negative social and legal consequences.

The sugar in Coca Cola can have negative health consequences, but it's widely available, relatively cheap and so doesn't require huge sums of money and criminality to support a habit. It doesn't have negative consequences for employment as there is no stigma and no criminal record.

Almost all of the negative consequences of illegal drugs, stems from them being illegal.

nj27

I'm going to knock you out immediately if you bring up any interest in drugs. I don't care if you're depressed or some kind of maniac, the second you tell me you're into drugs I'm swinging on you, and you need to be a big boy to deal with what I'm bringing. Nobody I know is into drugs, also nobody I know is broke or struggling. Most of the guys I know are looking into some kind of major physical test in the next 6 months, be it marathons or mountains. You want into that, you don't smoke, take drugs, or drink to excess. You don't like that, we're probably not the crew for you. And if you don't like jazz we'll kill you in your sleep. Aside from that, welcome to it.

katherineconlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232989#Comment_118232989

That's why I said that diamorphine pills should be prescribed for people who are already heroin addicts. It's used in extenuating circumstances for those in terminal stages of cancer, so it can be used (though cautiously) for people already addicted to the street form of the drug.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231394#Comment_118231394

This has actually got to be the most ridiculous ill informed thing I've ever read on boards.

I'm relatively young from a middle class background myself and you wouldn't believe how many people are using it regularly and most people seem to do it on occasion and I guarantee 99% of the parents of those kids have the same attitude as you who think of their children as angels who would never take drugs.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232977#Comment_118232977

Let's be honest, people don't care where or how it's made. They just care about the high.

But let's say you are right. Cocaine becomes legal. Let's take a look at potential variables. First up the Irish government could never let any legal seller sell cocaine obtained through the Columbian cartels or other drug cartels. We would be complicit in the south american drug war.

You say safely make it. Let's dig into that. So instead of using kerosene and bleach. Other, more safer chemicals are used. So the price tag of this legal safer coke is much, much higher than illegal coke. That's if Ireland would allow a manufacturing plant to exist in the first place. It is one thing to pass a law allowing use and then manufacturing.

But let us say that comes to pass. So you got a legal and 'safe' coke. Which costs so much more. High most likely won't be the same. So there is always a market for a drug dealer to sell the 'real' stuff.

However, let's envision a world where coke is safe and you can go into specialty shops and purchase

Then a bunch of scumbags who call themselves a drug gang, who used to sell coke will start selling heroin. Suddenly heroin becomes cheaper. I did say the more things change the more they stay the same.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233709#Comment_118233709

Cocaine as pure as cocaine comes sells for about 3 euro a gram in Columbia we pay a 100 a gram over here for stuff nowhere near as pure because of all the trouble it takes to get it transported over so I don't think price would be any higher than it is now.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233735#Comment_118233735

Erm, perhaps you should re-read my post.

LawBoy2018

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233642#Comment_118233642

Hahah I agree. That guy has 0 clue. Surely the vast majority of working professionals between the ages of 22-30 take drugs these days? Lawyers, accountants, consultants, doctors, etc.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233709#Comment_118233709

this, the scumbags would make theirs more potent.

you couldn’t get it off the streets as white powder looks the same. So... keep it illegal.

LawBoy2018

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233854#Comment_118233854

Why would that be a bad thing? Surely it would come down to supply/demand. People opting for the 'safer' alternative would cut into the market share of the criminals, therefore making their business model less lucrative. I don't see any downsides tbh.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233870#Comment_118233870

Because people will end up craving a stronger hit...

it would play into the hands of the criminals who would seek to maintain market share.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231394#Comment_118231394

Well one of the banks tested every toilet for traces of coke a good few years ago and practically every cubicle came back positive. Maybe it was just one guy with a really bad habit that using all the toilets in the multiple building or just maybe it's kept quiet as it would not help with their career prospects. I know which one I think it is.

katherineconlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233642#Comment_118233642

True. The stereotype that it's only the 'homeless junkies' who do drugs is stupid. Middle class people use drugs as much. If you think about it, there's no way for drug kingpins to be making all that money from coke and heroin if only working class people took it.

I imagine that any middle/upper class person that took cocaine would be quite reluctant to divulge their drug habits to their friends or coworkers lest they get ostracized. Even though use is common, it's still has a stigma to it.

riclad

cannabis is legal in many american states, 1000 s of people use it every week, its not a hard drug,as long as you are not driving its safe to use in moderate quantitys.cocaine is used by people in the media,showbiz etc its expensive .i dont think i could walk if i drunk 7 pints, 2 pints is my limit in one night.cannabis is a good painkiller that has few side effects versus standard drugs from the chemist .using cannabis is like having a pint its not gonna wreck you or turn you into a raving drug addict.