Ahmaud Arbery Case

maik3n

Previous thread for reference

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058080726/ahmaud-arbery

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/22/closing-arguments-murder-trial-ahmaud-arbery-death/8682555002/

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/ahmaud-arbery-murder-trial-closing-arguments-today-2021-11-22

One might imagine it would be a slam dunk conviction for the 3 assailants but with America's wacky Self -Defense/Stand your ground laws, I think we could be in for another shock. 🤨

The outcome has been known for days since the Judge basically directed a verdict to the jury.

He stripped the defence's case of self defence by saying they failed to meet the criteria for citizen's arrest because they didn't see him commit a crime that day.

They also provoked Ahmaud by chasing him down in their truck, again stripping their rights to self defence.

No one wants to see vigilante justice, they could have easily taken his photo and reported him to police.

Gatling

He was lynched , it's not self defense , especially when two pickup trucks with armed men chase an unarmed man down the road , where the unarmed man ends up being shot 3 times with a shotgun

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208356#Comment_118208356

Yeah as I understand it Arbery had he lived would have been able to claim self defense as they chased him and pointed weapons at him.

No good side to this one. They could have let him go and have him arrested later. That said from the video posted Arbery changed direction and suddenly lunged for the shotgun, there was a struggle and all. Suspect jury will acquit . Would be manslaughter here

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208567#Comment_118208567

One side chased an unarmed man ,who committed no crime , other to walk through a small construction site and took a drink of water in a white neighborhood ,

It was previously claimed he broke in to a truck to steal a gun , turns out the truck would automatically unlock and the suspect in the theft was actually white , but not according to the shooter

pjohnson

A sane country would convict the lot of them for murder without a second thought. But America is a special case.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208696#Comment_118208696

If it wasn't for the video being leaked to the media ,this would never have made a discussion and if it did it would go along the lines of if wasn't up to no good and complied with the good old boys with guns he would be still alive now only in prison for some reason or another

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219227/ahmaud-arbery-case

Another shock ?

What was the first shock ?

Nozebleed

i cant see a conviction coming here. Aubrey was seen trespassing on multiple occasions,the two men who confronted him didn't have any intention to kill for trespassing..aubrey didnt die because he was confronted by the two men. he dies because he attack a man holding a loaded weapon and died as a result of his actions. Not Guilty conviction is the only result here.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209519#Comment_118209519

He walked through an unsecured residential site as did numerous others who just happened to be white , there was tools apparently stolen by contractors working on the site or friends of ,

But only one person who chased by armed men in pickup trucks ,he was attacked by them ,

What should he have done lay on the ground for the lads to execute him ,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209519#Comment_118209519

the two men who confronted him didn't have any intention to kill for trespassing..aubrey did die because he was confronted by the two men

Listen to yourself. You contradicted yourself in the very next sentence.

Question: if they didn't intend to kill anyone, why round up the boys with the rifles and start hunting him through the neighbourhood?

osarusan

From Arbery's perspective, he's jogging along when two unknown men armed with a shotgun chase him and try to capture him for no reason. He eventually tries to fight back and gets killed.

Seeing as how the judge basically dismantled their argument that they had a right to be apprehending him in the first place, that makes them just a group of armed men chasing down and trying to capture somebody without any good reason, which eventually lead to his death.

I'd guess they're f**ked.

Yellow_Fern

This case wont garner much controversary as it is much more clear cut illegal killing than say Rittenhouse. Well the Rittenhouse case was not controversial for people who considered the evidence but you get my drift.

Nozebleed

first off,arbery wasn't jogging..that's pretty obvious. he wasn't hunted down either. he was confronted by concerned citizens who knew he was up to no good. when confronted aubrey decided he'd try take the forearm from the concerned citizen and during this confrontation he was shot and killed. only in fantasy land would anyone think this is murder. its self defence. i can only see a not guilty verdict coming from the jury and rightly so.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210797#Comment_118210797

The evidence says otherwise ,

He never took anything from the site other ,there is no evidence he was up to no good , several vehicles with armed men chased him down the road ,he was told if he didn't stop they would blow his head off ,they tried to hit him with a pickup truck more than once ,

He was hunted and killed for no reason other than walking through an unsecured site in a white neighborhood , other people were filmed on this site and none of them were hunted down and shot ,they just happened to be white

maik3n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210673#Comment_118210673

As evidenced by the post after yours, things are anything but clear cut for some here. 😥

Heck, if you look over the previous thread, you can find umpteen examples of people making excuses for the 3 assailants.

The only possible saving grace here could be the fact that the videographer William Bryan tried to make a plea deal with the prosecutors, which was soundly rejected. Mind you, even with that, America does love some vigilante justice at times.

Agree with others pointing out that there is much less nuance with this case than there was w/ Rittenhouse. The bang of racism off the three defendants is overwhelming. This case also gave rise to the vile 'jogger' slang as a reference to anyone with black skin. Rotten from beginning to end. Hope they get the book thrown at them.

Based on Arberrys previous encounters with the law, i would arm myself before confronting him. With the amount of criminals with guns in the us would be armed if confronting or trying to aprehend any suspicious character

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210973#Comment_118210973

But yet the unarmed person got shot 3 times with a shotgun ,he was dead after the first shot ,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210996#Comment_118210996

Exactly. If you are armed and the other isn't you are in a perfect position to boss them around without actually having to shoot them... get them to lie on the ground etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210996#Comment_118210996

The correct course for the 3 lads was to just let him go. Very little sympathy for them but from watching the vid it wad not a simple as 3 lads chasing him down and executing him. They had ample opportunity to gun him deon during tje chase but only shot when he lunged towards the gun. And there was a struggle. Manslaughter would be correct verdict for the shooter. The other two.. i dont know

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211051#Comment_118211051

They had no right to detain him at gunpoint in the first place, so its essentially armed kidnapping during which the victim was killed.

Its murder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211337#Comment_118211337

I see your point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210973#Comment_118210973

Riddle me this, Batman, how and where would you obtain the knowledge of someone's criminal history as they jog past your front window at suppertime before confronting him?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211012#Comment_118211012

They are not cops ,they have zero authority to stop people and force anyone to lay on the ground ,or anything because they are armed

Gatling

The Quintessence Model

Unlike the Kyle R case, this one strikes me as murder.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211051#Comment_118211051

It's murder ,

It was a good old fashioned lynching nothing more

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210973#Comment_118210973

Perhaps if they were in possession of some knowledge of this man's previous convictions(however they knew that), that they were so afraid of him because of that information that they had to arm themselves, I would suggest that they probably shouldn't have gone anywhere near him.

Pa ElGrande

The men on trial had no legal justification to use force against Mr. Arbery, much less lethal force. This case is over, the only question is what the prison sentence will be.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211337#Comment_118211337

This would be my take on it, too. Murder for the guy who shot him, not sure how the law stands for the father who was standing in the truck with a gun but he was for sure an accessory to it.

The neighbour who followed doesn't seem to have done much except try to help his neighbours apprehend someone they were chasing down for reasons unknown to him, so that's a harder call.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211877#Comment_118211877

Bizarre. In the US, Citizen's arrest allows for detention in certain circumstances (educate yourself here), so yes any citizen can in certain circumstances, detain any other citizen.

But the point you are missing is that responsible use of firearms in this unequal situation would have prevented anyone being shot. Guns aren't just for shooting people, that's an absolute last resort... used properly, guns are there to prevent violence.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212334#Comment_118212334

Your wasting your time trying to explain it away ,

They had no authority to stop , arrest , detain anyone ,they had no power to question ahmaud arbery , welcome to Constitutional rights enshrined in law

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212334#Comment_118212334

The "certain circumstances" are not even remotely covered in this scenario though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212493#Comment_118212493

CNN:

The shooting death of a Georgia man has thrust a complicated and often misunderstood legal tenet into the spotlight. The concept of "citizen's arrest" is a common cultural trope, but it's also at the center of the case of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man who was shot and killed after a pair of men pursued him with the alleged intent of making such an arrest.

Did they meet the criteria? IMO, no. Legally? I don't know. Does citizen's arrest grant any citizen the power to detain any other citizen? With variations by state, yes. Do I think these three are scumbags? Yes. Do I regard disciples of the right and the left as bigoted, one-eyed, morons incapable of rational analysis of any event? Yes. :)

Gatling

So we're all agree ,they had no reason or power to chase down an unarmed black man with shotguns and other firearms and kill him.

Well not exaxctly, no, Gatling. They had the power, the capacity to chase him down.. using 'citizen's arrest' laws as their cover. That they didn't have good reason to do so is a separate thing.. the court case is unravelling their BS story in any case so the law is doing its job.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211970#Comment_118211970

I believe the older man had encountered him before retiring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211877#Comment_118211877

In ireland, as a citizen, can legally detain somebody, if i believe they have committed an offence with a sentence of 5 years or more and may get away otherwise. That said they should have left him go but the father may have been aware of his previous hx with guns at a highschool basketball match

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212571#Comment_118212571

Being he committed no felony ,they had no right to chase and detain him ,in Georgia it was a law brought in to allow whites to capture fleeing "Slaves"

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212603#Comment_118212603

And more people have found themselves in court for false arrests here ,

Unfortunately we don't allow anyone to jump in to pickup trucks with shotguns to chase down people for no reason whatsoever ,

Ahmaud Arbery committed no crimes in the neighborhood where he was chased and killed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212630#Comment_118212630

Actuall we do. Courts would not look harshly on locals arming themselves and attemoting to apprehend a violent criminal, particularly if rural, but running down an unarmed burglary suspect would not be accepted. In my area certain gangs were commiting strong arm burglaries on isolated elderly farmers.l(and beating them) Men working locally set up a text alert system so suspicious characters were being confronted in minutes by locals with their work tools. The burglaries have stopped.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212603#Comment_118212603

No, you must know they have committed an arrestable offence, not just 'believe '

You would soon find yourself in civil court of you just 'believed' without proof.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212630#Comment_118212630

But that is exactly what the court case is showing.. they they were wrong. This is what court cases are for. It has to be proven.

The judge's guidance indicates that they are fooked anyway. So, what is the problem here? We can't bring Ahmaud back. But we can punish his killers. And that's what apepars to be happening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212591#Comment_118212591

All the more reason to stay away. He knew him, if an offence was committed he could have rang police, gone to court and have evidence.

Doesn't give him any right to chase him down, while armed.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212535#Comment_118212535

"A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

It was neither a felony nor was it committed in their presence. Thankfully even this law has been mostly repealed.

We shall soon see, but there appears no proper legal defence for what they did either.

Gatling

All 3 are facing another trial in February this time on federal hate crimes , whatever happens after they are convicted in Georgia

Penn

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1463581924593737742?t=WYRX97nEwqOloaI1l9CjqA&s=19

All three guilty of murder.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217641#Comment_118217641

Absolute scrumbags .

Seems like the right verdicts for the three of them. Was a bit concerned they might be able to use the law at the time to just about get off but no dice.