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Discovery 4x01 - 'Kobayashi Maru ' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

  • 18-11-2021 9:05am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭


    Well, here we go again. I'll put everything in spoilers until we work out the way going forward after the Netflix debacle yesterday.


    So, is it just me or did that opening scence seem to be very indebted to the opening of Star Trek: Beyond?

    That "Lets Fly" catch phrase is incredibly stupid and irritating...

    Give me the exploding bridge rocks over the fireballs any day of the week!

    Burnhams petulance and out of place confidence regarding the Voyager captaincy is really unbecoming. At leas she wasn't offered an Admiralcy which was my fear at the start of the scene...

    I'm not sure yet. It was an okay episode, but they seemed to spend a lot of time trying to hammer in references and quotes from older Trek, which was a bit distracting. Burnham piloting the pod was a bit stupid, though maybe they'll turn it into a learning thing about why the Captain shouldn't be so stupid. I doubt it though. I'd also forgotten that they were going to explore bringing ghost boyfriend back into a real body, which causes all sorts of complications with what we know of the Trill. As with almost all of Discovery, I find Burnham to really be a drain, though there was less of her nonsense in this episode I think.




Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,757 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    I thought it was okay overall.

    I liked the opening sequence, and the idea that the vaunted federation diplomacy doesn't always work, and that some species are just awkward assholes.

    I did like that the overall story arc for the episode all leads to Burnham getting called out on superhero antics. It'd be nice if this were more of a trend in terms of Burnham losing the Mary Sue stuff, and the rest of the crew getting screen time. But this was also suggested early in season 3 and didn't materialise.

    The name drop and musical callback to Archer was nice.

    The stuff with the kids coming of age ceremony was a cheap attempt at emotional manipulation for when Kwyjon gets trashed.

    The station commander pulling a phaser only to predictably see sense a few seconds later felt like a dumb moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,950 ✭✭✭corkie


    More of the same.

    'Lets fly' catchphrase will get tiresome if over used.

    Glad to see episode posts for people, maybe watching it next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,366 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Initial thoughts:

    I actually had to google to see if Mary Wiseman was pregnant during the filming of this season, she's gotten ridiculously overweight for the role of a member of star fleet who would be expected to be able to defend the ship in the event of it being boarded or to be able to perform physical tasks on away missions etc. Call that fat-shaming if you like, I wouldn't be having a go if she was playing the role of a frumpy 70's housewife or a young go-getter in New York etc. but going from her character being made to run to get in shape for the command program back in season 1 to her being clinically obese while being a second in command is ridiculous.

    In their efforts to be so diverse they seem to have left out one of the largest demographics of the human population: straight white males. They only seem to only exist as the moron of the week while the rest of the cast are defined by whatever it is makes them "special" ("the neurotic fat genius ", "the angry black woman who everything works out for despite her stupidity", "the neurotic gay scientist", "the neurotic non-binary child genius who's so non-binary they literally have a split personality disorder" etc. It leaves you with a crew that's more like the outcast group in a high-school drama for the young-adult genre than the traditional Star Trek group of professionals who happen to be diverse.

    I'll give them their dues though:

    This season's unexplained phenomenon only destroys planets rather than all of existence... that's remarkably restrained for this writers room.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Woo! That was exciting!

    What the heck is that?! Looked the size of the moon it destroyed over Kwejian.

    Like maybe moving at warp speed.. the moon exploded outwards so hardly a black hole.

    I assume they'd be able to detect a celestial body even if it was moving at warp.

    Maybe some kind of wierd wormhole jumping around erratically.

    Maybe a weapon.

    ..or maybe some kind of Don't-Do-Time-Travel-Cops coming in to fix up this Reality..

    Curious.


    Anyway.. Vibes of Spock and Vulcan and Unification and Star Trek 2009 from the Saru side of things.

    Big enterprise nostalgia throwing in the theme music like that.. kinda felt good!


    New Drives! No ProtoStar Drive mentioned! Boo! 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    The 'lets fly' catchphrase is exhausting.

    I really thought they might pivot away from Burnham does every task to save every episode, but alas, no, more of the same.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I don't even know why Discovery has a crew. All they do is exactly what Burnham tells them to do because she is such a genius and always figures it out. They may as well just install Alexa on the ship and get rid of everyone but Burnham.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    Just watched the first episode and it's rubbish. Why the fook would 'the boyfriend' be on a diplomatic mission on behalf of the Federation??? Pure nonsense.

    The rest of the crew are so bland that even after THREE FULL SEASONS, I don't know most of their names!

    Why are there so many uniform changes? One minute Burnham is in grey from last season, then brown, then maroon, then red, then blue!!! (Okay I know the last one was a space suit!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I wont bother including spoilers here - TBH i doubt it is possible to 'spoil' this episode

    This is not a good episode, it includes all the usual tropes we have come to expect from Disco: Burnham is a legend, doesnt know the meaning of the word failure - has been criticized for this in one reasonable scene - although we can expect Burnham to overcome this as the season progresses, proving that she literally is a legend

    Season Openers of Trek have been a mixed bag over the decades. Certainly some are fantastic, while others are a little less awe inspiring - this, IMHO was one of the worst openings for a Trek Season- i would genuinely request someone to name a worse one!


    I am genuinely less enthusiastic about this show, and specifically this season. I dont like the underlying story of the burn, i find it contrived that an organization as vast as the federation should be crippled, at a time when it could be expected to span most of the Galaxy, and beyond. Its contrived to be messed up for one person/ship to save - its just silly.


    Overall, Disco remains the lowest ranked Trek show, IMHO - Nothing in this episode, or the trailer of what is to come, would lead me to believe that this is likely to change- FYI i wish Picard Season 2 had launched first - that is something i am LITERALLY DYING to see :)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    OK. I have been quite vocal about how I actually don't get all the hate aimed at Disco: My main issue is the over-reliance on Burnham.


    But yeah.... the worshiping of her is just plain awful now. I don't think there was a single scene with her where someone wasn't casting doe-eyes at her. Even as she is getting given out to. (God, the academy scene). Stamets just running around out of his depth. Really? Tilly just standing there doubting herself (BAU) and everyone else simply orbiting Burnham or being all chipper.


    I'll continue to watch it to bide my time to other, more interesting fare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Little wonder he's out of his depth given he's a Xenomycologist in charge of the Spore Drive, not the chief engineer. The fact we've never even seen the chief engineer ,if there even is one, and have only seen Culbers boss once , is just one of many ridiculous things about Discovery.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,589 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Was a bit confused by the statement that these were the first cadets since the Burn... but the Burn was ~125 years before, so, like, who's been crewing all the Starfleet ships, and how did they learn their trade?

    Seems like they probably just had some sort of training program, and just now renamed it to 'academy', which doesn't feel like such a landmark event as was being made out..

    As for the episode at large - I hadn't planned on watching, but curiosity got the better of me. In the end I found myself just sort of drifting out of it, and doing other stuff while it played. A bit of a 'shrug' season opener really, with sudden random moments of "DRAMA!!!" instead of actual storytelling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,962 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Kinda like petty officers \ apprenticed on board rather than in a dedicated training facility?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I assume most SF crew were experienced already from flying with private crews and volunteered. If they didn't have experience they could just learn like Wesley, Nog or Tilly (has Trek ever had a cadet who wasn't a pain)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    A few thoughts on the episode .

    What exactly is Bookers official status aside from being Burnhams side piece. He feels like a combination of Troi and Neelix, there to employ his nebulous empathic powers whenever the writers need them and as a guide to the 31st(?) century .

    BUT OF COURSE Burnham gets to speechify to the cadets. They were presumably using Mandos volume technology for the big shuttle bay the speech took place in, and if so , big enclosed spaces are not its forte as it looked seriously bad imo.

    They really need to s**t or get off the pot with the Adira/Grey storyline , either explain why he is appearing to Adira, or give him a body already, so we can move on.

    Was happy to see someone have a crisis of confidence on Discovery, would have preferred if it was Michael but Tilly will have to do. Its not her fault she was thrown in at the deepend by Saru when he decided to promote her to 1st officer 10 years before she was ready. My hope(likely to be dashed) is that when Saru returns we will see a confrontation between them , where she will either take him to task for putting her in that position, or he will apologise seeing how she has struggled since .

    Loved seeing the president put Michael in her place, Michael's reaction pretty much sums her up , unwilling to except any critique on her command style or shotgun diplomacy. If they wanted to course correct this character they would use this chastening conversation with the President of the Federation to see Burnham have her own crisis of confidence. They won't tho, they'll have Burnham save the Galaxy her own way and have the Prez pat her on the back at the end of the season for proving her wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    They explained the Grey/Adira thing. It's basically why the trill had rules like a new host should not be connected to the old one and why real hosts should have training.

    Dax had a host who was so psychopathic he had to be blocked from the mind because he would make new hosts a little killy but Ezri channeled him into a mind ghost just like Grey using space magic.

    As for Burnham I am way beyond hoping there will be a change of tone and this will become an ensemble. They have only doubled down on the criticism. The only way I can keep watching is to get over that.



  • Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're me at the start of season 3. I did not finish watching season 3



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Ahh right. It just felt like it was heading towards a scientific explanation , that they would be able to recorporialize him through tech in order to keep Ian Alexander on the show . Not just putting the Tal symbiote and thus Gray in a new host, necessitating a recast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    They are going to somehow put Grey in a real body and they are currently working on that in show. What kind of space magic they use to extract Grey's memories and put them in a real body has yet to be revealed but Alexander will be staying as part of the cast.

    I was explaining your they need to"explain why he is appearing to Adira" which they did do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,863 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Soon as I heard "Let's fly" I knew how this episode was going - Burnham saves the day and damn anyone questioning her

    Don't really get why the writers have written her to be so odious



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Whatever they end up doing will have been needlessly convoluted . If they wanted to keep Ian on the show and corporeal they shouldn't have killed him in first place .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Well, you could tell that from the initial CBS logo. Has an episode NOT been resolved that way?


    ..... Actually, all snide aside, I'm trying to think..... Has an episode been resolved by anyone but Burnham?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Probably not because this is and always has been a one person show they told us that going in. It should be called "Burnham" in the same way as "Picard" but everyone would have been confused



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya it looks like they wrote a bit part that became popular so had to backtrack. Same happened with Culber and Georgiou (god knows why she was popular)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Actually initially there were rumours that it was almost going to be an anthology series. Obviously this would not have worked from a business perspective but initially the rumour was that it would cross multiple timelines and ships and even species. And, in the most interesting season it did focus on the Klingons brilliantly (IMHO of course). And then jumped timeline. Then it did refocus to be a mid level officer. Not quite lower decks. But similar idea. And, had it been this and the focus was as narrow as it is then I would have accepted that..... To a degree. But it almost instantly became about how this demotion was a narrow minded failure by the people who did not know how Burnham can/should save everything. Not just the universe but religious and personal quandaries. I am waiting for her to butt into gender politics. Where would the LGBTQ community be without their hetero saviour. It WILL happen this season.


    Look at Lower Decks series. Similar character: Overly experienced/qualified mid level officer. But the focus is not totally on her. The rest get just as much coverage. Provide help, valued opinion, different views and voices. She has genuine friends who's opinions she needs and values. Not doe-eyed yes men. Burnham has never been wrong. There were times when it SEEMED like she was wrong but in the end.....

    A previous poster said "why does she need a crew?" And they were right. If she had a holographic crew like yet man on picard she would'nt..... But they would ALL be identical as she is perfect. Not the (intentionality) terrible regional stereotypes that are in Picard.



    So, a usual, it boils down to one single fact. The over focus on an unrealistic and uninteresting main character to the detriment of more interesting characters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I actually liked Georgiou (not the god awful mirror universe version) but then, I am a big fan of Yeoh. And I like Culper and Stamets. But I agree, I think he was bigged up as he became more popular (I want to see more of that other, sarky medical officer. She was great).


    But the rest? Four years in? (Albeit with less than half episodes). Compare to DS9.

    Ignoring first three, say. In DS9 you have Nog, Rom, Leeta, Dukat, and of course..... Garak.... F#cking MORN!!!! . Even before you take into accountthe latter series when it REALLY kicked off.


    Discovery: Burnham. Fantastically interesting Doug Jones..sidelined. Interesting Jason Isaacs (dead) interesting Michelle Yeoh (replaced with a pantomime character which was then defanged). Cheap Idris Elba boyfriend who was fun then quickly turned into Burnham drone. Black chick. Redhead chick. Other redhead chick. Gay guy who's character didn't revolve around him being gay. Was great character. Now founcing and all about him being gay. AWESOME engineer who pops in for one brilliant like a season. Um...... The rest. Irrelivent as long as they can smile and fawn over Burnham like pod people are every damn moment

    If I seem dismissive with using these terms, like gay guy and chick, that's because that's the level of development they got.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    My point about Culber and Georgiou was that like Grey they were killed and then had to be space magiced back in because they were popular

    Lower Decks isnt a show about 1 character so thats why the focus is spread equally. Its not really comparable to a show like Discovery which is by design about 1 person



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭pah


    Well that was, as expected - mostly rubbish. Best part was the last few minutes with Burnham and the President talking in her ready room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    "It is hard to lose weight when you can replicate any food you want"

    To be honest I thought she looked OK on the away mission, probably later in the filming schedule. I suspect she comfort ate over lockdown, Lord knows a lot did. I just hope you are a bit more subtle with people in real life then you are here about a complete stranger.

    This too shall pass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭pah


    I see a lot of people championing her for portraying someone with a normal healthy weight. It might be normal but certainly not healthy. Also I would imagine that you can replicate a bowl of soup or a Big Mac meal in the 31st century and probably have them contain the same calories and macros...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Normal anybody can comment on. "Healthy" is best left to the professionals if and when Mary approaches them and gets the relevant numbers and measurements. Nobody "smoke shames" people for lighting up which is just as unhealthy as binge eating , so fat shaming shouldn't happen either. Remember, we've all been locked down to varying degrees for the past 18 months, it affected people differently. If anything I think wardrobe department failed her a bit.

    I know it was a comedy line on a comedy show but Keyshons retort to Boimler when he accidentally fat shamed him in his own language which I quoted above goes to show that even star fleet officers get body conscious. If we're trying to help, we need to choose our phrasing better.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,366 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Sorry, I don't buy into the fat-shaming nonsense. Being fat is something to be ashamed of (and I say that as someone overweight after lockdown myself). Yes, yes, we've all heard the glandular excuse. Problem is that it only applies to about 1% of those claiming it. Staying a healthy weight is very simple: eat an appropriate amount of calories for the amount you burn in your lifestyle.

    She's a professional actor. She's literally in one of the few positions where one can be legitimately hired or fired for their appearance and she's in a position where being fat isn't appropriate for the role she's playing. Tilly is a young officer near the start of a career where she would be expected to be fighting fit, it's not like when Jimmy Doohan let himself go in his later years and you had Scotty as a fat old man nearing retirement.

    And no, I wouldn't hold people in real life (or more ordinary professions) to the same standard as I would an actor unless of course they were in a job that required them to be fit: soldier, garda, firefighter or, you know, crew on a ship ;)

    I'd also argue that being able to replicate any food you want would make being a healthy weight far easier as one of the most common reasons for being overweight is eating poorly due to convenience foods tending to be more calorific than ones that take some time and effort to prepare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    So why wasn't Roxanna Dawson or Nana Visitor shown the door when their bumps started showing? Instead their pregnancies were covered or written into the plot. I presume you believe in chivalry or whatever that bull shift is called these days. Discovery is made for a different culture by a different culture then what is normal here in Ireland.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,366 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Being pregnant is not the same thing as being fat. As you've alluded to yourself: women still need to get pregnant in order to continue the human race in the 24th century.

    Nope, not a believer in chivalry tbh, a firm believer in equality. Just not tolerant of internet nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Well fat shaming, be it aimed at males or females is bullying. And you might think that posting a pro fatshaming post on an obscure out of the way anonymous Irish discussion board is harmless, but others can see that and post such comments on Marys own social media pages and before you know it we have another Caroline Flack. People should not be forced to tolerate cruelty as a price to pay to do something they love.

    This too shall pass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,366 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    As I said in my first post, I believe "fat-shaming" to be a nonsense term thrown about by those who want to claim their place in the spotlight of glorification of victimhood. Caroline Flack was no great loss: she was a violent misandrist who killed herself to avoid having to face the consequences of her own actions.

    People have to tolerate reality as the price of living in it. Acting is a profession where appearance is, always has been and (unless we get to a point where motion capture is the norm rather than an expensive special effect) will continue to be a primary factor in one's chances of success. If you don't look the part, you don't get the role and to be frank, being expected to maintain a healthy weight is a pretty low bar for an actor when you consider the extremes that many have to go to (the size the guys have to build themselves up to for the Marvel movies, the weight loss the likes of Tom Hanks or Christian Bale have undergone for films etc.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    You are some heartless piece of work and a bully. I'd love to have words with your parents to see if they are proud of whatever they've raised here. That is if you even had both parents raise you. Your attitude to human life is absolutely pathetic.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    So... Star Trek then? 😅


    Really wish they'd go back to the tried and tested character episodes, giving us a lot more about the others (Stamets, Detmer, Owosekun). S4 and I struggled to think of their names just now!

    I'm sticking with it, although not sure if that's just some kind of unconscious self harming at this stage? Was worried they were writing Saru out as he's one of the only characters with any 'Star Trek' feel to him, development, culture, personality. Everyone else just feels like devices in place to drive a Burnham storyline.

    Would love to see them write a completely changed Booker after the events of these episodes, would be great to explore someone completely breaking down and 'turning', not just 'fixed' after a quick hug and pep talk. A season long disintegration of his character's values and morals would be a fantastic watch, and a good mirror by which to judge the newly re-emerging Federation ideals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,044 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    In sync flame throwers is hilarious.

    Speical effects were good. I like the Transformer ship.

    Like the President giving Michael a dressing down. She's earned it.

    Story could be interesting, but it's galaxy destroying...... Again...

    Opening scene gave me 'Star Trek: Into Darkness' vibes.

    Tilly weight gain is definitely noticeable in full dress but not space suit?

    Did the cat survive?

    I forgot about the Gray storyline, so not see the point in it.

    Nice to see other crew members having things to do and lines to say.




    I miss Lower Decks.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,589 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    You seem to have a super weird, and very warped sense of an actor's professional responsibility. It's like you think every role is leading man/woman and all actors should always be prepared for that. The reality is that the most important thing as an actor, is to be a good actor. To understand empathy and emotion, and be able to step outside of yourself, and into the required character. If you're good at that, you'll find your roles. Because for every leading man/woman in a production there are dozens or hundreds of other roles that don't require you to be the paragon of physical perfection. What the bejesus would productions do if a role called for an overweight dude, but all actors were svelt six-pack'ed adonis'? Film and TV to one extent or another reflect actual people, so actors obviously come in absolutely all shapes and sizes, which is exactly how it should be.

    Now, you personally obviously think this actress is the wrong look for this character. Ok, fair enough, but that's got fck all to do with her. She went for the role of a quirky sidekick, and she got it. So your problem should be entirely with the producers/showrunners who clearly didn't consider physical shape to be anywhere near as important to the character and role as you do. I daresay they actually saw her build as a positive, reinforcing her 'awkward underdog everywoman' personality. Yup, from a technical standpoint, maybe you could expect a future-space-navy-cadet to be ripped, but it should be incredibly clear by now that that's just not what this show is. This is not hard-sci-fi. For better or worse, all the space stuff is clearly just a backdrop for the interpersonal stories and conflicts they want to tell.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    Tilly being overweight is the least of the problems of this show. These starfleet officers are pathetic both physically and mentally in comparison to previous ST crews.

    She should keep a check on her weight for her own health and acting career prospects but being outraged about her weight or being outraged about people calling her fat is extreme in both directions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    Not sure you should be lecturing strangers on the internet about the dangers of bullying when you yourself resort to personal insults because someone disagrees with you. Kind of undercuts your argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I did try to take a lighter tone by quoting Lower Decks accidental fat shaming but then they just doubled down on their justification.

    As someone with very close contact with suicide I can't just ignore that disease and watch it spread. I didn't survive to ignore others and I shouldn't have to ignore such things in a Star Trek discussion forum of all places. After Hours, conspiracy theories, sure I walk into that if I go there but not here.

    Post edited by flazio on

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,044 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    They're really milking the Voyager connection

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,366 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @flazio when you have to resort to trying to insult others, you've already lost the argument. If you can't back up your point-of-view, either accept that you're wrong and admit it or bow out of the conversation gracefully.


    @~Rebel~ I actually thought Mary Wiseman was well cast in the first season. A character that was a bit over-weight and shown to be trying to get that in check in order to put herself forward for officer training was the kind of positive role model we've come to expect from Star Trek shows (the crew bettering themselves over the course of seasons has been a long-running theme - b'Elanna learning to keep her anger issues under control, Bashir learning to be less of an arrogant twit, Nog overcoming his Ferrengi up-bringing to become a Starfleet officer, Kira moving away from extreme hatred of all Cardasians to referring to one as a family member etc.).

    You're right in that my issue is more with the producers/showrunners than with Wiseman herself. It's her body and her life so if she wants to put on an unhealthy amount of weight, that's on her. I'd argue that it was naieve of her to think it wouldn't affect her career (since her career is one that is largely based on looks - yes, there are character actors and even the odd lead who are overweight but being fat is an extreme disadvantage in that profession), then again, such naivety does sort of suit the character of Tilly 😂.

    The producers, however, should have addressed her weight gain with her. If she wasn't prepared to at least maintain the weight she started out as, she should have been written out or replaced by an actress who can conceivably portray a "future-space-navy-cadet" as you put it. No need to be ripped for the role, in fact I prefer it that the cast aren't: single digit body fat percentages are pretty much unmaintainable for anyone who has a job outside of the gym. That's fine if the actor in question is playing a demi-god character like Superman or a literal god like Thor, it's ridiculous if the actor is playing someone who'd presumably be on duty 10 hours or more a day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,589 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    You say she's naive to think it wouldn't hurt her career... but, how has it hurt her career exactly? Like, your statement only makes sense if she got fired from the show for it or something, but no, she's just gone about her business, and as has the show, with her weight seemingly having zero impact on her career at all.

    Also, you really are over-egging how much her weight - in this moment - will impact her. As I said already, in terms of working actor jobs, there are only a small % of roles that require you to be this trim idealist version of a person... for everyone else, it doesn't really matter so much. Like, she should - and likely will - find a healthy balance to her weight, but it really isn't the career killer you seem to think it is. The first thing you'll see on every commercial job, and tv/film supporting role casting brief is something to the effect of "real relatable people", with the ' chiseled looks' reserved for those central couple of characters. If you have a talent for the actual job itself (acting) you'll be fine - especially once already as established as she is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,370 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    From a basic continuity point of view she should be roughly the same weight, I know they go all in to give Burnham 432 new hairstyles each season/episode, but the is an active member of the crew as an engineer. Her Discovery crew boss (whoever the hell that is?) should be having a word with her as its impacting her ability to do her job.


    As for the episode, it felt like a piss-take for a lot of it. I dunno why it has to be almost slap-stick, its not part of the genre.

    It actually felt like one of those cringe starfleet command adverts on youtube.



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