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Discovery 4x01 - 'Kobayashi Maru ' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

ilovesmybrick

Well, here we go again. I'll put everything in spoilers until we work out the way going forward after the Netflix debacle yesterday.

So, is it just me or did that opening scence seem to be very indebted to the opening of Star Trek: Beyond?

That "Lets Fly" catch phrase is incredibly stupid and irritating...

Give me the exploding bridge rocks over the fireballs any day of the week!

Burnhams petulance and out of place confidence regarding the Voyager captaincy is really unbecoming. At leas she wasn't offered an Admiralcy which was my fear at the start of the scene...

I'm not sure yet. It was an okay episode, but they seemed to spend a lot of time trying to hammer in references and quotes from older Trek, which was a bit distracting. Burnham piloting the pod was a bit stupid, though maybe they'll turn it into a learning thing about why the Captain shouldn't be so stupid. I doubt it though. I'd also forgotten that they were going to explore bringing ghost boyfriend back into a real body, which causes all sorts of complications with what we know of the Trill. As with almost all of Discovery, I find Burnham to really be a drain, though there was less of her nonsense in this episode I think.

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Spear

I thought it was okay overall.

I liked the opening sequence, and the idea that the vaunted federation diplomacy doesn't always work, and that some species are just awkward assholes.

I did like that the overall story arc for the episode all leads to Burnham getting called out on superhero antics. It'd be nice if this were more of a trend in terms of Burnham losing the Mary Sue stuff, and the rest of the crew getting screen time. But this was also suggested early in season 3 and didn't materialise.

The name drop and musical callback to Archer was nice.

The stuff with the kids coming of age ceremony was a cheap attempt at emotional manipulation for when Kwyjon gets trashed.

The station commander pulling a phaser only to predictably see sense a few seconds later felt like a dumb moment.

corkie

More of the same.

'Lets fly' catchphrase will get tiresome if over used.

Glad to see episode posts for people, maybe watching it next year.

Sleepy

Initial thoughts:

I actually had to google to see if Mary Wiseman was pregnant during the filming of this season, she's gotten ridiculously overweight for the role of a member of star fleet who would be expected to be able to defend the ship in the event of it being boarded or to be able to perform physical tasks on away missions etc. Call that fat-shaming if you like, I wouldn't be having a go if she was playing the role of a frumpy 70's housewife or a young go-getter in New York etc. but going from her character being made to run to get in shape for the command program back in season 1 to her being clinically obese while being a second in command is ridiculous.

In their efforts to be so diverse they seem to have left out one of the largest demographics of the human population: straight white males. They only seem to only exist as the moron of the week while the rest of the cast are defined by whatever it is makes them "special" ("the neurotic fat genius ", "the angry black woman who everything works out for despite her stupidity", "the neurotic gay scientist", "the neurotic non-binary child genius who's so non-binary they literally have a split personality disorder" etc. It leaves you with a crew that's more like the outcast group in a high-school drama for the young-adult genre than the traditional Star Trek group of professionals who happen to be diverse.

I'll give them their dues though:

This season's unexplained phenomenon only destroys planets rather than all of existence... that's remarkably restrained for this writers room.

Slydice

Woo! That was exciting!

What the heck is that?! Looked the size of the moon it destroyed over Kwejian.

Like maybe moving at warp speed.. the moon exploded outwards so hardly a black hole.

I assume they'd be able to detect a celestial body even if it was moving at warp.

Maybe some kind of wierd wormhole jumping around erratically.

Maybe a weapon.

..or maybe some kind of Don't-Do-Time-Travel-Cops coming in to fix up this Reality..

Curious.

Anyway.. Vibes of Spock and Vulcan and Unification and Star Trek 2009 from the Saru side of things.

Big enterprise nostalgia throwing in the theme music like that.. kinda felt good!

New Drives! No ProtoStar Drive mentioned! Boo! 🙂

TheSheriff

The 'lets fly' catchphrase is exhausting.

I really thought they might pivot away from Burnham does every task to save every episode, but alas, no, more of the same.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189787#Comment_118189787

I don't even know why Discovery has a crew. All they do is exactly what Burnham tells them to do because she is such a genius and always figures it out. They may as well just install Alexa on the ship and get rid of everyone but Burnham.

Doodah7

Just watched the first episode and it's rubbish. Why the fook would 'the boyfriend' be on a diplomatic mission on behalf of the Federation??? Pure nonsense.

The rest of the crew are so bland that even after THREE FULL SEASONS, I don't know most of their names!

Why are there so many uniform changes? One minute Burnham is in grey from last season, then brown, then maroon, then red, then blue!!! (Okay I know the last one was a space suit!)

liamtech

I wont bother including spoilers here - TBH i doubt it is possible to 'spoil' this episode

This is not a good episode, it includes all the usual tropes we have come to expect from Disco: Burnham is a legend, doesnt know the meaning of the word failure - has been criticized for this in one reasonable scene - although we can expect Burnham to overcome this as the season progresses, proving that she literally is a legend

Season Openers of Trek have been a mixed bag over the decades. Certainly some are fantastic, while others are a little less awe inspiring - this, IMHO was one of the worst openings for a Trek Season- i would genuinely request someone to name a worse one!

I am genuinely less enthusiastic about this show, and specifically this season. I dont like the underlying story of the burn, i find it contrived that an organization as vast as the federation should be crippled, at a time when it could be expected to span most of the Galaxy, and beyond. Its contrived to be messed up for one person/ship to save - its just silly.

Overall, Disco remains the lowest ranked Trek show, IMHO - Nothing in this episode, or the trailer of what is to come, would lead me to believe that this is likely to change- FYI i wish Picard Season 2 had launched first - that is something i am LITERALLY DYING to see :)

TheIrishGrover

OK. I have been quite vocal about how I actually don't get all the hate aimed at Disco: My main issue is the over-reliance on Burnham.

But yeah.... the worshiping of her is just plain awful now. I don't think there was a single scene with her where someone wasn't casting doe-eyes at her. Even as she is getting given out to. (God, the academy scene). Stamets just running around out of his depth. Really? Tilly just standing there doubting herself (BAU) and everyone else simply orbiting Burnham or being all chipper.

I'll continue to watch it to bide my time to other, more interesting fare.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192494#Comment_118192494

Little wonder he's out of his depth given he's a Xenomycologist in charge of the Spore Drive, not the chief engineer. The fact we've never even seen the chief engineer ,if there even is one, and have only seen Culbers boss once , is just one of many ridiculous things about Discovery.

~Rebel~

Was a bit confused by the statement that these were the first cadets since the Burn... but the Burn was ~125 years before, so, like, who's been crewing all the Starfleet ships, and how did they learn their trade?

Seems like they probably just had some sort of training program, and just now renamed it to 'academy', which doesn't feel like such a landmark event as was being made out..

As for the episode at large - I hadn't planned on watching, but curiosity got the better of me. In the end I found myself just sort of drifting out of it, and doing other stuff while it played. A bit of a 'shrug' season opener really, with sudden random moments of "DRAMA!!!" instead of actual storytelling.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207969#Comment_118207969

Kinda like petty officers \ apprenticed on board rather than in a dedicated training facility?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207969#Comment_118207969

I assume most SF crew were experienced already from flying with private crews and volunteered. If they didn't have experience they could just learn like Wesley, Nog or Tilly (has Trek ever had a cadet who wasn't a pain)

PhiloCypher

A few thoughts on the episode .

What exactly is Bookers official status aside from being Burnhams side piece. He feels like a combination of Troi and Neelix, there to employ his nebulous empathic powers whenever the writers need them and as a guide to the 31st(?) century .

BUT OF COURSE Burnham gets to speechify to the cadets. They were presumably using Mandos volume technology for the big shuttle bay the speech took place in, and if so , big enclosed spaces are not its forte as it looked seriously bad imo.

They really need to s**t or get off the pot with the Adira/Grey storyline , either explain why he is appearing to Adira, or give him a body already, so we can move on.

Was happy to see someone have a crisis of confidence on Discovery, would have preferred if it was Michael but Tilly will have to do. Its not her fault she was thrown in at the deepend by Saru when he decided to promote her to 1st officer 10 years before she was ready. My hope(likely to be dashed) is that when Saru returns we will see a confrontation between them , where she will either take him to task for putting her in that position, or he will apologise seeing how she has struggled since .

Loved seeing the president put Michael in her place, Michael's reaction pretty much sums her up , unwilling to except any critique on her command style or shotgun diplomacy. If they wanted to course correct this character they would use this chastening conversation with the President of the Federation to see Burnham have her own crisis of confidence. They won't tho, they'll have Burnham save the Galaxy her own way and have the Prez pat her on the back at the end of the season for proving her wrong.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217169#Comment_118217169

They explained the Grey/Adira thing. It's basically why the trill had rules like a new host should not be connected to the old one and why real hosts should have training.

Dax had a host who was so psychopathic he had to be blocked from the mind because he would make new hosts a little killy but Ezri channeled him into a mind ghost just like Grey using space magic.

As for Burnham I am way beyond hoping there will be a change of tone and this will become an ensemble. They have only doubled down on the criticism. The only way I can keep watching is to get over that.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192494#Comment_118192494

You're me at the start of season 3. I did not finish watching season 3

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217332#Comment_118217332

I did.... But it was a slog.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217287#Comment_118217287

Ahh right. It just felt like it was heading towards a scientific explanation , that they would be able to recorporialize him through tech in order to keep Ian Alexander on the show . Not just putting the Tal symbiote and thus Gray in a new host, necessitating a recast.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217564#Comment_118217564

They are going to somehow put Grey in a real body and they are currently working on that in show. What kind of space magic they use to extract Grey's memories and put them in a real body has yet to be revealed but Alexander will be staying as part of the cast.

I was explaining your they need to"explain why he is appearing to Adira" which they did do

fritzelly

Soon as I heard "Let's fly" I knew how this episode was going - Burnham saves the day and damn anyone questioning her

Don't really get why the writers have written her to be so odious

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217689#Comment_118217689

Whatever they end up doing will have been needlessly convoluted . If they wanted to keep Ian on the show and corporeal they shouldn't have killed him in first place .

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217904#Comment_118217904

Well, you could tell that from the initial CBS logo. Has an episode NOT been resolved that way?

..... Actually, all snide aside, I'm trying to think..... Has an episode been resolved by anyone but Burnham?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218524#Comment_118218524

Probably not because this is and always has been a one person show they told us that going in. It should be called "Burnham" in the same way as "Picard" but everyone would have been confused

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218383#Comment_118218383

Ya it looks like they wrote a bit part that became popular so had to backtrack. Same happened with Culber and Georgiou (god knows why she was popular)

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218602#Comment_118218602

Actually initially there were rumours that it was almost going to be an anthology series. Obviously this would not have worked from a business perspective but initially the rumour was that it would cross multiple timelines and ships and even species. And, in the most interesting season it did focus on the Klingons brilliantly (IMHO of course). And then jumped timeline. Then it did refocus to be a mid level officer. Not quite lower decks. But similar idea. And, had it been this and the focus was as narrow as it is then I would have accepted that..... To a degree. But it almost instantly became about how this demotion was a narrow minded failure by the people who did not know how Burnham can/should save everything. Not just the universe but religious and personal quandaries. I am waiting for her to butt into gender politics. Where would the LGBTQ community be without their hetero saviour. It WILL happen this season.

Look at Lower Decks series. Similar character: Overly experienced/qualified mid level officer. But the focus is not totally on her. The rest get just as much coverage. Provide help, valued opinion, different views and voices. She has genuine friends who's opinions she needs and values. Not doe-eyed yes men. Burnham has never been wrong. There were times when it SEEMED like she was wrong but in the end.....

A previous poster said "why does she need a crew?" And they were right. If she had a holographic crew like yet man on picard she would'nt..... But they would ALL be identical as she is perfect. Not the (intentionality) terrible regional stereotypes that are in Picard.

So, a usual, it boils down to one single fact. The over focus on an unrealistic and uninteresting main character to the detriment of more interesting characters.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218626#Comment_118218626

I actually liked Georgiou (not the god awful mirror universe version) but then, I am a big fan of Yeoh. And I like Culper and Stamets. But I agree, I think he was bigged up as he became more popular (I want to see more of that other, sarky medical officer. She was great).

But the rest? Four years in? (Albeit with less than half episodes). Compare to DS9.

Ignoring first three, say. In DS9 you have Nog, Rom, Leeta, Dukat, and of course..... Garak.... F#cking MORN!!!! . Even before you take into accountthe latter series when it REALLY kicked off.

Discovery: Burnham. Fantastically interesting Doug Jones..sidelined. Interesting Jason Isaacs (dead) interesting Michelle Yeoh (replaced with a pantomime character which was then defanged). Cheap Idris Elba boyfriend who was fun then quickly turned into Burnham drone. Black chick. Redhead chick. Other redhead chick. Gay guy who's character didn't revolve around him being gay. Was great character. Now founcing and all about him being gay. AWESOME engineer who pops in for one brilliant like a season. Um...... The rest. Irrelivent as long as they can smile and fawn over Burnham like pod people are every damn moment

If I seem dismissive with using these terms, like gay guy and chick, that's because that's the level of development they got.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219036#Comment_118219036

My point about Culber and Georgiou was that like Grey they were killed and then had to be space magiced back in because they were popular

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219006#Comment_118219006

Lower Decks isnt a show about 1 character so thats why the focus is spread equally. Its not really comparable to a show like Discovery which is by design about 1 person

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187796#Comment_118187796

"It is hard to lose weight when you can replicate any food you want"

To be honest I thought she looked OK on the away mission, probably later in the filming schedule. I suspect she comfort ate over lockdown, Lord knows a lot did. I just hope you are a bit more subtle with people in real life then you are here about a complete stranger.

flazio

Normal anybody can comment on. "Healthy" is best left to the professionals if and when Mary approaches them and gets the relevant numbers and measurements. Nobody "smoke shames" people for lighting up which is just as unhealthy as binge eating , so fat shaming shouldn't happen either. Remember, we've all been locked down to varying degrees for the past 18 months, it affected people differently. If anything I think wardrobe department failed her a bit.

I know it was a comedy line on a comedy show but Keyshons retort to Boimler when he accidentally fat shamed him in his own language which I quoted above goes to show that even star fleet officers get body conscious. If we're trying to help, we need to choose our phrasing better.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118229650#Comment_118229650

Sorry, I don't buy into the fat-shaming nonsense. Being fat is something to be ashamed of (and I say that as someone overweight after lockdown myself). Yes, yes, we've all heard the glandular excuse. Problem is that it only applies to about 1% of those claiming it. Staying a healthy weight is very simple: eat an appropriate amount of calories for the amount you burn in your lifestyle.

She's a professional actor. She's literally in one of the few positions where one can be legitimately hired or fired for their appearance and she's in a position where being fat isn't appropriate for the role she's playing. Tilly is a young officer near the start of a career where she would be expected to be fighting fit, it's not like when Jimmy Doohan let himself go in his later years and you had Scotty as a fat old man nearing retirement.

And no, I wouldn't hold people in real life (or more ordinary professions) to the same standard as I would an actor unless of course they were in a job that required them to be fit: soldier, garda, firefighter or, you know, crew on a ship ;)

I'd also argue that being able to replicate any food you want would make being a healthy weight far easier as one of the most common reasons for being overweight is eating poorly due to convenience foods tending to be more calorific than ones that take some time and effort to prepare.