Penalty points should be permanent and linked to ones PPS number instead of driver number

Jeremy Sproket

Here's a novel idea.

People driving in Ireland from other EU countries are de facto immune from driving bans by virtue of having another EU licence which is valid in Ireland but incompatible with ours to receive penalty points. If points were linked to one's PPS number instead of driver number, then Poles, Danes, Germans, Swedes .... etc. living here and driving on their licences would face the same consequences for their recidivism.

Furthermore, when a person receives penalty points, they should remain permanently on the licence until they accumulate their 12th point and get banned for 6 months, after which the points will reset. I won't say they have to resit a test afterwards, that'd be too draconian.

What do you think of this idea?

We also need further enforcement of shítty behavior at junctions, people not yielding, breaking stop signs, yellow boxes. Average speed cameras should be slowly implemented on every stretch of road.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218309/penalty-points-should-be-permanent-and-linked-to-ones-pps-number-instead-of-driver-number

Pure and utter nonsense

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178143#Comment_118178143

Why? Have you nothing more to add that to slate my post without constructively criticising points therein?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218309/penalty-points-should-be-permanent-and-linked-to-ones-pps-number-instead-of-driver-number

Totally disagree … but I do have another suggestion… that reg no/I’d no’s are put on bicycles and cyclists are held accountable for their actions, with penalty points applied to them for each time they break lights, don’t stop at pedestrian crossings for pedestrians … etc … and then when they reach their 12th point , they are fuct under a bus and got rid of … ps I will delightfully apply for that bus job 👍😁

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178180#Comment_118178180

Yawn.. I suppose they should pay road tax (sic) too?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178186#Comment_118178186

Yes, of course they should contribute towards the upkeep of the roads they are using . They should also have mandatory lessons before being allowed out on road

Wrong person

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178190#Comment_118178190

Everyone, cyclists included, contribute towards the upkeep of the roads through general taxation.

Why should cyclists have to pay road tax (sic) that? It doesn't exist.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

A big fat yawn

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178229#Comment_118178229

Ah right, good lad. I can see you're not here for a proper discussion. Cheerio.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178236#Comment_118178236

Ah i see , you dont like anyone disagreeing with your nonsense post , cheerio

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178226#Comment_118178226

Shur why am I pay road tax for using the same road as a girl on a bicycle uses… I’ll stop paying taxes so … shur they can make up for it by increasing your general taxation

Cookiemunster

Nobody pays road tax. There's no such thing. You pay motor tax relating to the size/emissions of your engine.

The OPs suggestion is nonsense though.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218309/penalty-points-should-be-permanent-and-linked-to-ones-pps-number-instead-of-driver-number

Can’t imagine who someone did not think of this before…. Ah wait, they did and it is being worked on in the EU right now, in fact a few parts are even implemented, for instance the bit that makes all those licenses you think foreigners have invalid for a start!

The only place this is a novel idea is in your head.

even if they were linked to PPSN, if someone from Europe is not living here more or less full time, they are not likely to have a PPSN anyway..

Esel

What do they do in Sweden?

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178186#Comment_118178186

Pot, this is the kettle calling.

jim o doom

So a person could accumulate points over many years for minor speeding offences and then lose the licence for 6 months.. and they may really need their vehicle, their livelihood could be dependant on it, they may need to transport kids, sick family members, all the reasons a licence is needed.

This idea is beyond stupid. It doesn't allow for people to make mistakes and then behave well for extended time frames.

0/10 for your idea. People are not infallible.

jim o doom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

Also - adding "therein" to the end of a sentence does not make you seem more intelligent, it has the opposite effect.

DarkJager21

I have some better ideas, particularly for cyclists.

1) Bicycle free roads - roads where the speed limit is 80KPH and that don't have the 1m or whatever it is to safely pass cyclists, simply won't be open to cycle traffic.

2) Mandatory rules of the road license/testing of some sort - If you are on a bicycle without this, your bike will be impounded and destroyed.

3) No more "abreast" cycling on country roads - anything outside of single file is fair game to drive straight through.

4) Cyclist catchers at red lights - if a bicycle decides to travel through a red light, a large spike will shoot out of the ground and impale the bicycle and rider until they turn green again.

All those points sound about as logical as your idea OP, what do you think?

SteM

Bicycle free roads exist already, they're called motorways :)

It’s posts like this (OP) that make this forum redundant.

Podge_irl

I don't think permanent penalty points is a good idea. Though its not as bad as murderous psychopaths visualizing all the ways they would like to kill other road users.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178250#Comment_118178250

WHERE did I say (or imply) I have an issue with people disagreeing with me?

You didn't exactly eloquently voice your disagreement, you just said "you bad .. me good oohhoo ohohhh" .... not exactly a verbose comment.

I await your reply 🤡

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180326#Comment_118180326

Permanent only in the sense that they'll last ad infinitum until the person accumulates their 12th point, then they'll be off the road for 6 months to a year. Then the clock resets.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180211#Comment_118180211

If your licence means that much to you then obey the rules of the road...... simple.

magicbastarder

well, a thread about penalty points about motorists only took four posts for someone to make it about cyclists.

motorists sure love to fantasise about causing GBH to other road users. very reassuring.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182274#Comment_118182274

You don't even keep criminal convictions for life and you want to have penalty points for life. FFS.

magicbastarder

to be fair, their suggestion was not penalty points for life, per se, but that they didn't expire and clear till you reach 12 points, at which point they reset.

not saying it's a good (or bad) idea, just that their explanation in the first post was more detailed than the thread title suggested.

Jeremy Sproket

There seems to be little or no deterrent. People can essentially speed and drive carelessly with gay abandon.

What are the potential consequences of misusing the bus lane? None, pretty much.

The chances of being seen by a Garda are slim, and even if you are they may not even pull you over for it. I've personally seen cars drive up the bus lane in clear sight of Gardaí who do nothing. There's no points either, just an €80 fine. Even if you get caught twice a year, (which is unlikely) you can essentially have an "express lane" for less than the cost of the so-called "road tax".

Buffman

Even murderers given a mandatory 'life' sentence can get released eventually in this country, but you want a road traffic offence to hang over somebody for the rest of their life OP. That wouldn't be justice IMO.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178190#Comment_118178190

How would paying motor emissions tax go toward the upkeep of the road??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182279#Comment_118182279

well, thank god you're not in charge of those rules with ideas like this.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183060#Comment_118183060

That’s what happens when cyclists start it and wish harsh penalties on motorists .

My comment on the bus was clearly a joke btw

theres posts going on further down from cyclists about motorists breaking rules also…ffs they are the biggest breakers of rules … very rare to see cyclists stop at red lights in this country….. constantly disregarding pedestrian crossings …. Passing pedestrians many times in a fast unsafe manner …. Everyone needs to walk/cycle/drive in a safe manner … penalties against all road users are needed… not just one cohort .

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185870#Comment_118185870

I never said anything about “motor emissions” tax. That just sounds like more twisted green makey uppey shitetalk

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185900#Comment_118185900

As a non-driver I am fascinated by this. Is it that the rules are too difficult to follow? Impractical? Unenforced?

I am genuinely curious and not having a pop.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

I think when talking rubbish best avoided... adios....

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185950#Comment_118185950

"Road tax" doesn't exist in Ireland. You as a motorist pay motor tax based on your vehicle's emissions, don't you?

And it isn't ringfenced for upkeep of the roads, is it?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185978#Comment_118185978

so you agree it’s not called motor emissions tax? That’s good, glad that’s cleared up. In regards to what it’s used for… fuk all like most of our tax I’d say… squandered to legal eagles and lavish lifestyles for the politicians .

boardlady

I think this might be the third anti-drivers post from this poster in a short time. OP, your anger towards other drivers far outweighs your ability to actually effect any change. I suggest you take a more zen-like approach to other road users.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185954#Comment_118185954

I don't drive either.

So I'll explain the OPs great idea in another way that may be easier to understand the absurdity.

So say I decided one day to go smash up someone's gaff and get arrested and charged, I got to court and the judge says see you, 6 month suspended sentence.

now, as you probably are aware, that means basically if I am to be arrested and charged with another offence within that 6 months I will serve the sentence.

However, what the OP suggests is that the suspended sentence in this case, will never expire. the only way I can have it do so is by committing a crime and serving 6 months in prison.

And sure you could argue "don't commit a crime", but that's just generally good advice rather than a justification for an insane set of rules on how suspended sentences (or penalty points) should work.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183342#Comment_118183342

The issue is enforcement. This propose change wouldn't particularly help that.

Andrewf20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218309/penalty-points-should-be-permanent-and-linked-to-ones-pps-number-instead-of-driver-number

I think your idea is too draconian. Its already fairly strict as it is - get caught 4 times in 3 years and you are off the road & it could be (at times) doing 95km/h in an 80 zone at 5am with no traffic on the road. For all of the people that I know who have penalty points (maybe 20-30) I dont think any of them have actually been involved on a road traffic accident.

As for taxing cyclist - this would be a disaster of an idea if we want to get people out of their cars and onto bikes to curb emissions.

magicbastarder

Its already fairly strict as it is - get caught 4 times in 3 years and you are off the road

at the time this article was written, and at the end of 2018, the number of drivers on 12 points was around 800. i wouldn't think that's fairly strict (though obviously there's an argument on the distinction between the rules being strict and enforcement being strict, but it doesn't matter a whit how strict the rules are if they're not enforced)

https://www.thejournal.ie/county-breakdown-penalty-points-ireland-2020-5276163-Dec2020/

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178186#Comment_118178186

I'm going to guess that there's a bicycle involved somewhere. Whenever I see some absurd demonisation of Irish motorists out of all proportion to reality along with some "great idea" for some ridiculously draconian, excessive, stupid, globally unprecedented, disproportionate crackdown on those uniquely horrible Irish motorists, it's usually a cyclist. I've seen so many threads like this, including threads that weren't even about motorists when started but were subsequently hijacked by cyclists.

It's also quite laughable to see cyclists demanding that excessive enforcement and punishments be directed against other groups given the extreme regularity of two-wheeled lawbreakers riding on footpaths and going through red lights, often forcing pedestrians crossing on a green-man to "negotiate" with the cyclist. If cyclists are looking to point fingers at "lawbreakers" they should look closer to home, in many cases, the mirror.

As to your comment about road tax, most forms of road tax across the world, including Ireland's motor tax, are levied exclusively against motorists. I've no issue with that, but I find it bizarre how often cyclists are on here ranting about how "motorists don't pay road tax" when by dictionary definition, Ireland's motor tax regime is a form of road tax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax#Ireland

Podge_irl

Excessive enforcement 🙄

The enforcement of road traffic laws is almost non-existent. It would need to increase about 20 fold before it even came close to moderate.

Duckjob

The penalty points system is inherently fair at its core IMO.

2 points... "Oh crap, I strayed over the limit a bit, I need to watch that"

4 points - "Damn, I'd better behave myself from now on"

6 points - "Damn, I'm REALLY REALLY need to be on my best behavior from now on"

8 points - "I'm not learning what and I don't deserve too many more chances"

10 points - "I'm really not learning and I don't deserve any more chances"

12 points - "BOOM..... As long as I refuse to learn my lesson I'm a danger to others, so I'm off the road."

I don't think points should be permanent as it gives people a chance to mend their ways at any point before they hit 12 points and work their way back to a clean licence though diligent good behavior.

On the other hand, I think that the points system should be reserved for minor offences and anyone caught driving with blatant disregard to the safety of those around them. (eg. driving 80kph through a 30kph zone), or for example deliberately endangering/threatening other road users should be liable to an immediate ban by a judge.

Excuses such as the need of a car for work and other such rubbish should be discredited completely and solicitors banned from bringing them to court.

Hilly Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178158#Comment_118178158

To be fair, you did ask what we thought of it and he told you what he thought,. I agree with the poster, it's a non runner for me. It's a bit extreme.