Schools to close again.. Covid

clunked

I see there are still shyte posts on Twitter from JCT. They and the Inspectorate should be immediately put back in the classroom to fill gaps. Time to give example rather than telling us how it should be done. And we should troll then on it too.

am_zarathustra

How they can sit in departments or have the audacity to do incidentals when there is literally a recruitment crisis and SEN is being sacrificed left, right and centre!

am_zarathustra

HerrKuehn

All staff who want to be vaccinated will have been vaccinated by now, so the situation is very different to last year. Government would be and should be worried about the difficulty in getting schools to re-open. We had special schools closed for a long period of time with unions refusing to go back.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40210448.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-abandons-plans-to-reopen-special-schools-this-week-1.4462268

TheValeyard

Damn Unions wanting to protect their members from a horrific virus before vaccines were available!

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210839#Comment_118210839

Individuals will look after their own interests and unions look after their members. The government needs to look after the best interests of the children.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210923#Comment_118210923

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209849#Comment_118209849

Special schools that had higher infection rates than mainstream schools with no social distancing , full capacity on transport , no vaccinations and no additional measures being offered during a time when daily case rates were hitting a peak of 8000 plus a day ? Special schools that returned to in school teaching and learning in Feb - the first schools to return once safety measures were increased - 50% capacity and masks on transport.

Nobody wants schools to close rather better mitigation measures.

I find it amazing that the baseline for government supporting our children is viewed as the children physically in the building full stop. No issue with SET being pulled to cover classes or the removal of banked hours. All of which will have long term consequences on children with AN. If the government were serious in doing what’s best for our children than Hepa filters, adequate covid monitors , contract tracing and banking if hours would be a start.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211410#Comment_118211410

Northern Ireland managed to have special schools open when we did not. The UK had schools open for the children of frontline workers even at the beginning of the pandemic. The provision of education in Ireland was based on what suited teachers themselves. There was no flexibility in terms of moving holidays around or anything like that. Primary aged children cannot be taught effectively remotely, this is why they need to be physically in schools.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211452#Comment_118211452

I have no problem with children being in school - I certainly do not want schools to close again - that does not mean I don’t expect proper safety measures to be put in place. I have no interest in what NI ir the UK did or do - I’m concerned with the Irish system and the use of SET to cover classes and the removal of banked hours. All of which impact Irish children in Irish schools.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211473#Comment_118211473

It is merely an observation that in the provision of education during the pandemic other countries have managed better. So it is natural that those using the educational system will compare our performance with others.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211490#Comment_118211490

Personally I think it’s a red herring and equates schools being physically open with enhanced educational provision. It is not as clear cut as that. We have spent the last 18 months using SET to cover classes - we have now removed bankable hours. AN children have borne the brunt of this over the last 18 months - not an issue as schools are open. We are now at the stage where covid infection among primary school children is a serious issue in terms of educational provision - we have no contract tracing in schools , vaccinated staff are becoming ill , there are no subs , SET can’t make up the shortfall any more there are schools closing classes due to no cover , bankable hours have been removed, schools can’t get teachers for class hours. Why because the gov spent the last 18 months telling us schools are safe there is no issue here rather than putting in adequate mitigation measures. If schools close it won’t be due to the unions but the ineptitude of gov burying their head in the sand and saying all is grand.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211776#Comment_118211776

Children aren't really becoming seriously ill though, so from that point of view the schools are relatively safe. It will be up to schools to struggle along as best as possible over the winter. At times they won't have enough staff to cover all classes, so some children will be sent home. It is still far better than closing all schools. The issues with AN children is further exacerbated by how much time schools were off over the last year and a half.

I don't think Public Health is managing the pandemic particularly well by the way. They passively set rules and hope that people follow them. It is the easiest in terms of implementation but naturally becomes less effective over time as people have spend a lot of time over the last 20 months under lock down. They overused the full lock down approach rather than add more effective active measures. There are conflicting messages around antigen tests, people are using cloth masks that are about as useful as holding a bit of tissue over your nose. Other European countries had more effective active methods which meant they were able to live relatively normally for the most part during the pandemic. They had more testing, FFP2 masks instead of cloth or surgical masks (they actually filter viral particles). The PCR test centers here can be quite far away even if you live in a large town. The only one in Wicklow is in Newcastle, yet Bray is one of the largest towns in Ireland with a population of 35k.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211870#Comment_118211870

My point is schools shouldn’t have to struggle on though should they. I genuinely don’t see whole scale closures of schools ala lockdown. 🤷‍♀️ I just don’t think it will happen. We really need to move away from the schools are safe mantra it does nothing to help schools. But rather creates a lot if confusion not helped by PH who I agree have been very poor in relation to schools - we still have symptomatic children being sent to school - it’s only a cold which it turns out is not a cold which has had a knock on effect. That I put squarely at the gov / PH door children don’t transmit as much as adults , schools are safe etc . If we are serious about educational provision then we need better mitigation measures and very clear cut advice to parents. I agree the initial lockdown was over used. I do think nothing was learned between that and xmas 21. I definitely think schools needed to close after xmas but not for as long and definitely wasted by not kitting schools out with HEPA filters and or masks.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212029#Comment_118212029

Well I think schools do just have to struggle on, no system will be set up to deal with the kinds of stresses a pandemic can place on it. So obviously there will be capacity issues if large numbers of teachers are isolating.

I think parents know that there is a level of risk in schools. We know there have been cases in my children's school for example. There were a few additional cases with children in the class picking it up as well. The thing is even if they do pick it up they should be ok, we are vaccinated so we have some level of protection even if we do end up becoming ill, it will be unlikely to result in hospitalisation. We need to put this chestnut to bed that everyone thinks schools are completely free of covid and 100% safe. We know that isn't the case and we are not idiots. Schools are safe from the point of view that in secondary schools the children can be vaccinated if they choose and in primary age children the risk of serious illness is low.

If PH want people to get PCR then they should make it very easy to get and not have to travel long distances.

byhookorbycrook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211452#Comment_118211452

UK has had a regular weekly test regime in place since for early on. We haven't.

byhookorbycrook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211490#Comment_118211490

Many other countries have adequate ventilation,smaller class numbers, social distancing and masks. As to your point re children with AN. At present, the SETS are being used as subs, previously, such hours of SET could be "banked" and reclaimed. That's not being allowed this year, as endorsed by Min Foley and Madigan who are on record as being " on the side of children." Unless you are Josepha, who apparently doesn't see children with AN as "normal," also on record.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212152#Comment_118212152

This suggests they brought in antigen tests for some students in March 2021:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56485637

Our PH doesn't believe in antigen tests.

TheValeyard

Oh they do believe in them

The Dail members and staff get free antigen tests. Just not the rest of us.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212237#Comment_118212237

Government may believe in them and they are to get (not yet) antigen tests paid for by the political parties apparently. They have not been getting them in the past. There will be some sort of subsidised provision of antigen tests for the rest of us (against the advice of PH).

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211870#Comment_118211870

YEs children aren't really getting seriously ill , so they are relatively safe.

But relative to what? If you consider sending 500 students out the hall door every day to be stirred around in a giant covid soup , then, bring them back into gen.pop with parents, neighbours, grandparents, clubs and relatives, and then rinse and repeat every single day... Then are they still relatively safe ?

Given the above is it that imperative that they stay open no matter what?

Why did we even bother shutting down on March 13th 2020, was it a waste of time doing so?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212623#Comment_118212623

In March 2020 the only information we had was from Italy when they were being completely overrun. Now we have 75.7% of the entire population fully vaccinated. The majority of those not vaccinated are not eligible due to being too young. All school staff who want to be vaccinated have been. Vaccination provides a good level of protection against serious illness. So it is a completely different situation now.

In situations where children could come into contact with more vulnerable people like grandparents, it will be up to individual families to assess the risk and take appropriate action. The solution isn't to shut schools so kids can see their grandparents.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212677#Comment_118212677

🙄🙄🙄 oh do give over 🙄🙄🙄

It's hard to believe the complete lack of action to attempt to stem the flow of infection in primary schools. It doesn't appear to be as bad at second level, or at least not in my corner of the world. Three of our feeder schools are seriously under pressure this week due to a combination of covid infection and the sub shortage, so much so that two of the three rang to see did we know any student teachers/casual subs that would be willing to sub for them.

am_zarathustra

I'd definitely agree secondary isn't being hit as bad, it's like masks and controls work!! Parents need to take responsibility here, get your kid in a mask so they can go to school.

My concern for secondary is just the exacerbation of an already dire shortage of teachers, a lot of young teachers either gone abroad or talking about it. Will there be many schools left with s and s come the new year?

Seems like the government is set on playing chicken and willfully misunderstanding exponential growth again, can't wait for January

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214456#Comment_118214456

Secondary school students are also eligible for vaccines, so there is another factor in play.

Icsics

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214476#Comment_118214476

And wear masks

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214529#Comment_118214529

Well, many are wearing cloth masks which have very little benefit. In Germany you have to use a proper FFP2 mask to use public transport. I am not saying that there wouldn't be a benefit to primary school kids wearing masks, just that the general guidance around mask wearing is deficient here.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214476#Comment_118214476

Absolutely, the uptake is still too low but at least a decent proportion are vaccinated.

The mask wearing and social distancing is definitely playing an important role in keeping numbers down, it could easily be done in the top half of primary and really could be done across the board.

The random nonsense the kids are coming out with regarding nonsense also needs to be challenged in the schools. There should be informed dicussions about the roles of vaccines and there importance......insta and tictok are not reliable sources of information on immunology

byhookorbycrook

Schools in Britain have been using lateral flow tests for quite some time. No teacher wants to be back to remote leaning, believe me. We want to keep children in school where they belong. But we do want proper safety measures. Being told to implement public health measures that apply in other work places.No school in Ireland can have 2 m sd between children and that in children from 3rd class down to have none at all. Staff discouraged from wearing masks as they " hinder communication." Hand washing as the only defence against an airborne virus.

Since schools returned last year to in-person learning , school staff have campaigned for HEPA filters, for proper trace and test and for proper support for high risk children and staff. We were studiously ignore. Ms. Foley is only taking notice now as classes will have to be sent home.

https://www.publichealth.hscni.net/covid-19-coronavirus/information-schools-colleges-universities-and-parents/lateral-flow-device

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56485637

gaiscioch

Well, what do you know:

"Primary school-aged children now have the highest Covid-19 incidence of any age group, new figures show.

Among children aged 5-12 years there were 5,374 coronavirus infections detected last week or 979 cases per 100,000.

This is up from 4,211 the previous week or 767 per 100,000.... Ronan Glynn – the State’s deputy chief medical officer – has said that schools are not as safe now as they were several months ago due to a surge in cases." (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/primary-school-aged-children-now-have-highest-coronavirus-incidence-of-any-group-1.4737632)

Treppen

IMG_20211124_225038.jpg

When hell freezes over