Schools to close again.. Covid

Working class heroes

Ok. A bit clearer who they are.

However I think it’s rather disingenuous to say that this group are speaking for all parents of the schools(the 47%) they are associated with. I’d argue that most of the parents in these schools have even heard of such an “umbrella “ group.

How are they chosen?

Were all of the parents of the pupils of these schools asked what there view was? Were they balloted?

Again apologies if I’m way off here or missing something obvious.

combat14

fight not over yet TUI meeting govt tomorrow to hear of so called "operational" details for reopening

everything could change next week too

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418678#Comment_118418678

Parents are aware of the parent's association in their school in the same way that people are aware of who their local counsellors are, if that makes sense.

You (I don't mean you personally) have to take an interest and make an effort to be informed, but the info is there, it isn't hidden.

Even if you are not on the PA, you can always attend their AGMs. If a parent who has children in an ETB school and is on the PA or is a regular attender of their PA's AGMS, then they would know about the ETB's National PA.

But yeah, you are right, most of the parents in these schools probably don't know about them.

I'm not a parent, so I can't say if parents were asked for their views on it, but I am a teacher and my union never asked my view on reopenings, yet the headlines still claim that I don't want to go back to work.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418678#Comment_118418678

Just like it’s disingenuous to say that the unions speak for all teachers - there are 3 different unions who have different membership and who at that do not represent all their members views - yet people insist they do quite vocally.

In relation to ETB national parents association no offence but don’t know and don’t care - google may help you there.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418678#Comment_118418678

Sorry, just quoting you again to point out that I edited my response above to include two extra sentences that actually answer the question you asked!!

Working class heroes

Thanks for that, have the jist of them now.

I just find it odd that people/publications reference them as if they speak for all parents. On their website they say, and I quote

“Consult with BOM, Students, Parents, ETB Staff and other ETB’s where appropriate”

I would class this situation as extremely appropriate, IMO.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418760#Comment_118418760

Well, there is a bit of a difference with being a dues paying member of ASTI/TUI/INTO, in that sense the union represents you. You joined it and allow it to represent you. I would imagine most parents have never even heard of whatever organisation that NPA is.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418800#Comment_118418800

That is not correct at all. We join the union and let them represent us, in consultation with us. I check into a hospital and sign a consent form to undergo a medical procedure. Does that mean the surgeon can take what he likes while he's in there?

The ETB NPA being suggested as representing of all parents is every bit as disingenuous as the TUI/ASTI being suggested as representing all of teachers.

Teachers and parents - in the main - actually want the same thing here.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418776#Comment_118418776

God yes, completely agree that the unions views and teachers views are not exactly aligned on this one. I know a lot of teachers and none of them seem to have a problem going back.

I suppose I always had the suspicion that the unions had another agenda, similar to the feeling I’m starting to get with this Parents group thingy.

Anyway sorry for dragging things offside, I genuinely wish you all well in this.

Thanks for the info.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418800#Comment_118418800

My union did not consult me re reopening at all - my union also didn’t put out a statement seeking a delayed reopening and a staggered return - yet the consensus apparently is that I don’t want to go back to work and my union wants to keep schools closed. Go figure.

Newbie20

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but does anyone know what happens here….. I’m a close contact of a relative who has a positive antigen test. But he can’t get a PCR, there’s just none at all available.

So I should be isolating according to the HSE, which I am but I haven’t officially been told I am a contact because my relative can’t get a PCR, just positive antigens. So do I go to work as normal on Thursday or not? I’m going to contact school tomorrow to see but just wondering if anyone knows or in a similar situation? Guidelines are gone so unclear now it’s crazy.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418833#Comment_118418833

ASTI represents all teachers who are members of ASTI, obviously they do not represent all teachers. Also, when joining a union you allow yourself to be represented collectively, for good or bad. There are upsides for members of course when the union has the upper hand in pay talks (last time during the bubble), the downside for teachers union members is the behavior of the unions result in teachers being perceived in a certain way.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419633#Comment_118419633

I genuinely have no clue what "the upper hand in pay talks (last time during the bubble)" refers to.

Pay is not the issue here.

I don't know what to say to you re: parent's associations. They exist in every school and anyone who doesn't know about them has chosen not to know about them. They, unlike unions, work with the schools. They meet regularly enough with principals and school management and reps from PAs are on the BOMs too. They are not the makey uppy group that some seem to think they are and they dont operate in a vacuum, outside of the school community.

As someone who volunteers a lot in my local community, I'm not surprised people don't know who they are though. The disproportion between those in a community who sit on their holes moaning (about anything in general) and those who get up off their hole to get involved is staggering.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419906#Comment_118419906

Well, PS unions in the early to mid 2000's had the government over a barrel. ASTI lodged a 30% pay claim in 2000 for example.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/asti-asks-teacher-unions-to-join-30-pay-claim-1.262550

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember this. Obviously everything changed after the bubble burst. It is really just an example that union members take the positives and negatives of being members. If ASTI members are not happy with how the union represents their interests, maybe join TUI? ASTI remains the largest secondary union, so obviously people are happy with how they are represented.

I know what a parents association is, my wife is involved with it in the kids school (not ETB). It is most definitely not a union that represents all parents.

Treppen

People saying the unions don't represents teachers.

People saying parents associations' don't represent parents.

People saying Students Union doesn't represent students.

.... But happy to be represented by Norma Foley without question!

Go figure.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420027#Comment_118420027

Most parents will not have joined the parents association though. The teaching unions are opt in, teachers who join the pick the union they want to join and pay a due from their salary. I am sure you get the difference!

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419980#Comment_118419980

I began teaching in 2008 so am too young to have been represented by, or benefitted from that.

Nobody is saying that the parents association is a union.

To be fair, if this parents association were looking for full return tomorrow, you would be happy for them to speak for you and this conversation wouldn't be happening. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is normal to not take issue with a person/group/organisation who holds the same opinion as you do.

Personally, I was a TUI member. I left last year because I had had enough of their sh1te. They absolutely do not have the best interests of teachers at heart and in fact they gave me completely false information in relation to an issue I had with predicted grades last year. They are the worst and I would rather burn the monthly contributions than give it to them. They don't speak for all teachers and they don't speak the truth for all their members either.

However, I still get judged for everything they say. Even though I don't pay contributions and I don't agree with what they say.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420060#Comment_118420060

Many people will not have joined any representative organisation and claim they didn't know about it or didn't think they represented their views... That's understandable.

But what I don't get is people giving out about every organisation except the Minister.

You can't claim you didn't know about politicians!

The minister is the one with the deciding vote so direct the anger there first.

That's the difference.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420065#Comment_118420065

I don't think that the NPA's opinion on school reopening has any relevance at all. I am interested in whether public health thinks they should open or not, that is all. It is up to them to decide if it is ok to open. I think they have often overreacted, keeping us within 5 km of our homes last year and keeping restaurants closed for 7 months was excessive in my opinion. But, if they decided that we need to keep schools closed along with other measures to prevent case numbers becoming unmanageable I would accept that.

When you left TUI did you join ASTI or remain outside of a union? I think if teachers want to change the way their profession is perceived, they really need to get on top of how their unions represent them.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420120#Comment_118420120

I don't think the minister is necessarily doing a bad job though, so why would I direct the anger there? She became minister during the pandemic so I hardly expect her to have made great changes to the education system.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420065#Comment_118420065

Yes, someone did say they were a union, previous page.

Yes, if this parents association were lobbying for a full return tomorrow i'd say that most parents would be happy, as that's what they want.

They still wouldn't be speaking for all parents mind you but they would be in agreement.

I hear you on your last paragraph. I had a very similar experience in a different sector.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420122#Comment_118420122

I'm not in a union. They have nothing to offer me that my teaching contract and the Irish constitution doesn't already protect me from.

They are a total waste of money.

They are also quite a condescending group of individuals, from my experience of them and they have less than zero interest in their youngest members.

Most teachers join because there is a lot of shady carry on in the industry around contracts. I would bet that most would leave after they get their contract, if they took the time to think about it. Even more would if they attended a meeting or two and heard how they go on

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419405#Comment_118419405

not fully qualified to provide concrete answer but with that * out of the way

- if you are under 40 have you tried a few antigen tests ...

- over 40? booked a pcr test (not sure if you need symptoms or not to do this..)

- have you got any official message from hse (not sure has system crashed on this)

- you could ring or call into local gp for advice - they are the medical experts

- ask your employer for a medical grade mask - cloth masks apparently are only 40% effective at protecting spread of covid

- ask employer for guidance ...

- failing that just turn up to work like everyone else tomorrow hoping we dont give (or get) covid to/from someones kid and ultimately pass it on to other teachers/grandparents/students/

vulnerable people/parents/ family etc..

it is a difficult one with lots of talk of government again changing isolation rules and nothing definite yet .........

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420165#Comment_118420165

Okay, didn't realise they were called a union. Now I am hoping it wasn't me who said it because that will be extra embarrassing 🤣

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419980#Comment_118419980

Not sure of the point of stuff that requires the phrase "maybe you aren't old enough to remember this". We are in a particular set of circumstances here. Grinding a 20 year old axe with unions is irrelevant.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

Dont let someone hang you up on a single word. The ASTI doesn't use the word 'union' in its name. These organisations represent people whether people like it or not. There's no particular legal status to the word 'union'.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

nah, was'nt you😀

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420230#Comment_118420230

The point was in relation to benefit/disadvantage to being in one of the teaching unions. The unions and ASTI in particular have developed a reputation over the last 20 years or so. Of course it affects how teachers are perceived. That is the downside.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420158#Comment_118420158

First announcement as minister was for a school in her local area.

And where are we on HEPA filters? They were recommended two years ago.

Also subs... Remember she said there was no problem and she didn't hear any principals saying it was an issue.

Also dept school inspectors who are qualified teachers but doing sweet fanny Adams going around asking if we know who the principal is for child protection.

And JCT seconded teachers and their post-it notes.

Also an advisory committee proclaiming that teachers will be in over the Easter with practicals.

Let us not forget the Friday afternoon circulars!

Other Government ministers making announcements on schools and education before the Minister.

The stuff above is very easy to address

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420196#Comment_118420196

Just checked my posts and neither did I 🤷‍♀️ I did link to them and also ISSU and early childcare providers.