Mica redress levy - Nope, Nope and Nope

0ph0rce0

I'm not paying anymore levy's they can go stick it up their hole.

TD's earn millions , have cash falling out their ass but now I maybe paying?

Fuck off, No discussion no "what do I think" it's just no.

https://www.thejournal.ie/mica-redress-levy-5598282-Nov2021/

Jequ0n

Who else did you think was going to fund it? Realistically I mean.

The DayDream

Doesn't Apple still owe us a few squid?

Ten of Swords

Title updated to indicate what the thread is actually about!

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217550/mica-redress-levy-nope-nope-and-nope

What are you going to do about it?

they cant levy the construction industry because that would make unaffordable homes more unaffordable.

They wont tax vulture funds.

Its going to fall on the majority to pay for this.

Potential-Monke

This is why I was against it in the first place. If I'm not mistaken, the company who did this are still trading, yet they want me, a person who lives on the literal other end of the country, to pay for it. Oversight me hole, never a problem until someone is affected by it.

But as they're saying above, can't do anything about it. We don't have a say in this.

Markcheese

Ah but the AVERAGE house size affected in Donegal is 2400 square feet ( apparently ) , that's a lot of sq feet to rebuild -

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153026#Comment_118153026

Now bear with me here because this may seem like a radical idea but how about the homeowners?

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153026#Comment_118153026

Why should I have to pay for people who built their homes with defective blocks? It's sad and all but caveat emptor and all that. This has nothing to do with the state, or my family for that matter.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153174#Comment_118153174

Everyone is a victim these days, and so are the the poor homeowners. It’s just the fashionable badge.

listermint

I'm wholly against a levy on any of this. No chance nope I've enough bloody bills and Levy's.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153180#Comment_118153180

I never said you should have to pay for it. I just asked if anyone expected a different outcome. I don’t want to pay for it either, but complaining on boards won’t make a difference either.

Homelander

I mean realistically where did people think the money would come from ultimately?

I feel for the homeowners but I think the Government response should be measured - a suggested cap of €400K seems fairly high considering most of those homes would be in fairly rural areas.

I understand they might have lost more than that in many cases, but if its all at the taxpayers expense, the response should be focused on providing what's essential to each affected family rather than replacing what was lost.

EG if you lost a spacious 4-bedroom home with large square footage, the cost to cover a bog-standard 4-bedroom home would be sufficient.

The projected cost is not exactly pocket change.

StupidLikeAFox

What do people want instead? 5000 homeowners on the housing list, where we will have to pay to house them anyway?

Not very enthused about having to pay for it, but it has to be done.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153522#Comment_118153522

People, on boards, don’t want these people getting anything they aren’t getting themselves.

And if they must get something they aren’t to get an inch more than they had at the start. The “footprint” of the rebuild will have to be measured, and checked, to ensure it’s exactly the same. If that’s not good enough for them let them rot in the fields.

Another example of the crab mentality on here.

Potential-Monke

No, I just don't think the government should be responsible for a private companies shoddy tactics on saving money which resulted in this. If it was such a big problem, why is it only this developers buildings that are affected? Because they went with the cheapest option for them. So it should be on them and them alone. You can quote regulations and lack of oversight, but they seem to be the only company (that I'm aware of) who used these blocks. They even quote that it used standard mix design, but are still the only ones who had this problem.... If it was widespread around the country with multiple manufacturers and developers involved, I'd be a bit more understanding. But one company? Maybe I'm thick, but everything is pointing back to that one company.

Open to correction on this. I don't like reading about it because it only angers me that I'm going to have to pay for it.

Del2005

If they are going to give the mica home owners redress because of bad regulation why are they ignoring the thousands of other home owners who have had to rectify their property because of lack of enforcement of regulations, Priory Hall was the tip of the iceberg and people who have had to spend thousands fixing their property won't be happy that a select group will be getting theirs fixed for free.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153522#Comment_118153522

5000 folks on the housing list for bog standard social housing would have a significantly different cost than covering all sorts of sizes of houses from anything to small for 5000 folks.

100 redress was a cod from start to finish. It's la la land stuff altogether.

Potential-Monke

Exactly. Even the crowd who looked into this said it was unreasonable for the government/bodies to have been able to predict/test for this. So they're saying it's not the governments fault, even if better procedures and testing were in place, but yet the government is expected to cover the cost of this craic. If I've read right, there was a 1% limit on the inclusion of whatever is causing this, but tests have shown the blocks contained far more. Yet Cassidy Brothers are claiming innocence... Even going so far as to decide to not produce bricks for housing anymore...

Cassidy Bros is still in operation from its quarry at Buncrana. Its website still offers a range of prices for concrete blocks, although it is no longer, a source said last week, producing blocks for housing construction.16 Oct 2021

Do we now have to worry that office or public buildings these lads are involved in are going to start crumbling one day? Why aren't they footing the expected up to €3.2 billion bill?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154206#Comment_118154206

Ah but you don’t understand how the building industry works……. A lot of legal work goes into isolating the various projects and risks into separate legal entities so that when a problem occurs the drawbridge goes up and you are left dealing with an empty shell. You need deep pockets and lots of time to get anywhere and these are two things most people don’t have.

lapua20grain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217550/mica-redress-levy-nope-nope-and-nope

100% agree, we are still paying for the failure of PMPA and Quinn gambling with Anglo, why the fk should I pay for houses in Donegal? Not a hope am I paying another levy.

Allinall

I'll begrudgingly pay a levy. Mainly because I won't have a choice.

thefinalstage

This really sticks in my side. A generation who can't even afford a home are expected to pay for a private company's mess?

Its fairly stunning that insurance/construction havent simply been told to solve this or else

That said the caps discussed are just too high and talk of 100% redress is fantasy stuff that should never have been enabled- in the media, from politicians or on various fora

Markcheese

Many of the affected houses can be repaired - but they'll probably always be devalued as mica houses - doesn't seem that's good enough,

Many of the houses that do need replacing are pretty big - and the owners want like for like replacement ...

then there is the issue of fixtures and fittings ,do they get paid for by the state - ? , And where are people going to live while demolition and rebuilding Is done and who's going to pay ? Landscaping ? Driveways ?

100% redress would end up a bottomless pit ,

If the state offered modest 3 or 4 bed homes as replacement ,that'd still be a couple of hundred thousand a pop , and demolition costs on top of that ... would a bank accept a 3 bed house as collateral in exchange for a mansion - also making it unsellable ...

But many houses are either uninhabitable or becoming so ..

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153079#Comment_118153079

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153180#Comment_118153180

I have to say it is disappointing reading comments like this. If it's nothing to do with me or if I'm not benefitting then I don't want to pay is what you are saying.... But yet you don't have a problem with my taxes paying for your trams or whatever in Dublin that I don't get to use....

People's houses are literally crumbling. Do you think they chose to build with defective blocks?

We are already paying levies for the insurance industry and (I stand corrected) the bank bailouts so this is nothing new.

But I do think that the construction and insurance sectors should be contributing significantly to this.

Mr. teddywinkles

Wheres all the insurance companies on this. Did the building company not have a liability insurance for this kind of structural defect. Or the quarry supplying these shoddy materials.

The government in this country are a soft roll over. Absolutely useless. Any problem just throw money at it and pass it in to the taxpayer

timmyntc

Soft touch regulation from the government allowed this to happen - and its not the first time.

Dublin pyrite, Donegal mica, Mayo pyrite, limerick pyrite, clare pyrite, tipp pyrite - the list keeps growing. And it will continue to grow until the sector is regulated properly. Quarrying and building materials production are a law unto themselves. Once you get the cert to say your product is NSAI certified, it will never be checked again. You can make them as shoddy as you like and nobody will know until their homes start to crumble.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155001#Comment_118155001

Since May 2014 (in response to pyrite) there has been building inspector system in place to catch these type of issues (doesn't help with the pre-2014), however homeowners can pay a fee and opt out of the inspection and take on the risk themselves (which it seems a lot of people have done).

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155179#Comment_118155179

Nearly all Mica and Pyrite issues to date have occurred in pre-2014 builds. So you can try and victim blame all you want, its just lies from yourself.

And building inspectors do not test blockwork - if you order 10N blocks you have no idea if they are 10N or 5N unless you test them yourself. Building inspector inspects the building, not the blocks.

StupidLikeAFox

I agree the insurance and block supplier should be cleaned out on this, punish them for sure, however how much are you realistically going to get out of them? If you got 200m out of them you are still about 3bn short

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153640#Comment_118153640

Its not a 'developers' buildings, its anyone who used blocks made in certain quarries, and there are a number of them. It has nothing to do with buying cheap blocks. The blocks contain too much mica/pyrite which then break down over time and exposure. Poor regulation meant blocks were not tested for mica/pyrite content, this has since been remedied.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155271#Comment_118155271

It should be done, anyway, to send a message. No way should that company be left standing, after all this.

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155332#Comment_118155332

afaik they have folded, and reopened under another name.

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154935#Comment_118154935

I don’t live in Dublin but even still, when I go to Dublin I still benefit from the trams in our capital city. Stupid analogy.

enricoh

The current minister who's brief covers asylum seekers proposes that all asylum seekers get keys to their own pad within 4 months of arriving here. There is 8000 asylum seekers in the system at the minute, they can apply to bring their family over once they get the green light to stay here.

Yet they haven't the money to replace the houses of people who work n pay their own way in life and get caught innocently on block defects. An absolute scam of the highest order.

SupplyandDemandZone

Sorry it hasn't worked out for the home owners but that's life im afraid. It's not my fault so why should i pay?

DullSpark

A cap of €400,000 seems a bit saucy. Apart from the actual structure you would think a lot of things could be re used e.g. kitchens, bathrooms, doors, sockets, switches, and the land that the house is on.

To be fair there are some cowboys up in that North West, you can be sure they'll feel entitled to better higher spec houses due to all the pain and suffering they've endured too

The state didn’t, the developers did.

the entire industry needs an insurance agency.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155001#Comment_118155001

I have a feeling there’s a lot of criminality close to that sector.

landofthetree

Its amazing how much the scumbag builders and the construction industry have cost the taxpayers.

Cowboys the lot of them.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155583#Comment_118155583

Entire houses need knocked - if you must reuse windows/doors/kitchens etc, then you need to carefully remove and pay for storage

Foundations may need lifted & relaid depending on state of them - family needs put up somewhere for the duration (caravan most likely)

Keep in mind most of these people are still paying mortgages for houses that are unsellable and worthless

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155596#Comment_118155596

There really is. CRH in particular had a very dodgy rise to power both here and abroad.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Oh, you'll pay. You'll all pay.* One way the other.

There should be some ceveat attached to this, like liquidation and prosecution of firms who are found to have knowlingly caused this and stricter laws for the future - THAT'S where the scandal is: TDs not holding people accountable and even helping them evade responsibilities (but you'll only go and vote them back in, so you kind of pay for that, too. Only this time by choice.)

*I don't live in Ireialnd, so won't pay :)

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155583#Comment_118155583

You arent that far off the mark, building regs have changed since those houses were built so they will have to be built to current code.

SnazzyPig

This seems to be about appeasing the TDs that had constituents affected by this regulatory failure.

So, 3.2 billion to prop up the current coalition.

Makes perfect sense.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155331#Comment_118155331

If the materials were shoddy and not up to spec then the supplier should be at fault.

If the materials were not the right spec for the job required then those architects or engineers who said to use them should be at fault.

If the materials were not used right on the building site then the builder should be at fault.

The above should be culpable between themselves, not the taxpayer.

enricoh

Possibly apart from 2007 I couldn't think of a worse time than now for building a house. A neighbour moved into his new build last year in March. He had the builder out this summer for something small and the builder said it'd be e100k extra for the same house now. The house cost around the 300k mark.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155479#Comment_118155479

so fcuk'em!

Borzoi

Mrs B has a friend, who's father lives in an affected house. The house in 19 years old. So now they want it rebuilt as new. Get the f#@k out. There needs to be a discount based on the house age as well

323

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154935#Comment_118154935

Aye, but the construction and insurance sectors are untouchable in Ireland.

Sure lots of Councilors & TD's were involved with the construction industry, brown envelopes everywhere to smooth things over around the time most of these problem buildings were built in Dublin as well as the NW & elsewhere.

Buck stops with government for lack of proper standards plus the lack of enforcement of those standards that were in place.

We'll end up paying, bitch a bit and accept it as always. But look in the bright side, its small change compared to what was given to the banks to pay off unsecured bondholders and the money stays in the country.