EV owners without a home charger

NoDiice

Hi there,

Just wanted to hear your experiences/opinions on driving an EV without having access to a home charger.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Royale with Cheese

Did it for 18 months. I lived in an apartment on the Luas line two stops from the Carrickmines park and ride where there are four chargers. I'd often drop it down there to charge and get the Luas home, then go back down on the Luas and pick it up later. Although this was far less than convenient than being able to walk to a charger it was also handy enough as you were pretty much 100% guaranteed to find a free charger past 6 or 7pm. Other than that I'd try and park at an AC charger while I was out and about but they're often already in use in Dublin. I'd use DC the odd time too but tried to keep that to a minimum. I've my own driveway now but don't have a charger installed as I'm waiting on a grant application, I'm actually in no rush as I'm a five minute walk from a charger that is free to use and not that hard to get a slot at. I don't drive that much and need to charge the car maybe once a week on average.

It completely depends on how far you are from your nearest AC charger, how busy that charger is and how often you'd need to use it. I don't mind not having a charger now at all (still want one installed) but I'd have little interest in going back to the situation when I was in the apartment.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216867/ev-owners-without-a-home-charger

Not recommended unless you are really really keen to have an EV to the point where you are willing to accept inconvenience on an ongoing basis.

Two possible exceptions would be where you have low mileage and a charge once a week is all you need, then that might be do-able depending on where you live and how close there is a public charge point to you that you can use.

or you can convince your job to give you work charging.

innrain

It is definitely not as convenient as having a home charger. I do it since April 2019.and managed quite well considering I drive a bit more that the average commute. We tested the waters with a small EV in the first place then dropped the petrol backup and got the second EV. I have no regrets.

You need some planning unfortunately it is hard when you don't known the caveats of charging. You'll need to educate yourself on the topic . I've met countless of drivers expecting to get 22kW from a 22kW AC. Charging at AC43 on the motorway because that was the plug they've recognised. They never used the CCS. That will only frustate you. You need to do your homework well before committing. A long term loan would help, research chargers around you, discuss at workplace maybe there are chargers or plans to install. I used to do my own statistics about availability of the ecars cargers. Now you have ecars-stats.com

Contact your LA ask them about their plans to install chargers in your area. Discuss with the owners of the parking. Things will move at some point as there is no other option.

zg3409

I would not recommend it, there is mostly downsides at little upsides. Even if you have lots of nearby public chargers you may require a 5 or 6 hour wait to fully fill up as most are 7kW meaning a 50kW battery will take 7 hours to fill. Some public faster 50kW chargers might fill car in less than an hour, but they are very busy, sometimes blocked and some when broken remain broken for more than a year. So you can't rely on nearby chargers to be available and working. It does depend on your daily commute, your second car you might have access to, if work might out in chargers etc, but really one if the benefits of EV ownership is filling up at home on cheap night rate power and having 100% range every morning. I would highly recommend you do the research as there is not half enough public chargers and generally they are intended for those who already have home charging, not to be used as someone's personal car charger.

I don't have one even though I can get one fitted at my employers cost. I might revisit the topic but don't want the hassle of dealing with my landlord and want to be able to move with little hassle although I'm settled for the moment. I've got charge cards so it is all the same to me. I've also got free charging in work not that I visit the office since pandemic.

There is an 22kW charger at the bottom of the hill but it is a very steep hill. I suppose I could swtich 15 minutes on a stepper in the gym for the walk up the hill.

I'm not a big believer in big batteries and will be trying to avoid getting a big battery in my next EV if possible too.

the_amazing_raisin

I did it for a while with the Leaf before I got the home charger installed. I fell into the gap where the ESB stopped doing free chargers and private electricians hadn't really gotten up to speed installing them

It was a bit of a pain tbh, the Nissan garage nearby has a 50kW unit that's free to use, so I was rocking up there every second evening to charge. It was pretty funny looking since I'd have to park across the pavement and stretch the cable over the fence around the garage. I saw at least 2 other Leafs doing this, so it's a known thing

When I got my ESB card it got easier since I could use the AC charger near work

It'd be a lot simpler with the ID.4 now, since I'd only need to charge that twice a week at most. There's also chargers in work, but I can only ever get one to work and my complaints to facilites fall on deaf ears (if you see EC charging units, best to avoid)

Having a home charger definitely makes life easier though. At the very least, having a reliable charger that's close to home or work is essential IMO

NoDiice

Thanks all for the opinions/experiences. Like I thought, it would be a pain to own an EV without a home charger when the public infrastructure is not quite there yet. Hopefully there's a push soon, for apartment blocks and public car spaces to feature chargers.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137584#Comment_118137584

All new apartments have the provisions for EV charging built in as part of Planning and Building Regulations.

Doesnt help older stock though.

innrain

No it doesn't. Nor our culture of insuring (read suing) every bit of our life. Today I've seen petrol prices above 1.8 for the first time. I bet that will help.

Used to fill a 45-50 l petrol tank every 5 days. For October ecars bill 26 easygo 78. Used to pay 100 a month for toll. For the month of October I have 87.12 charges from which 49.97 were discounted because of the electric. All these are secondary for me though and I would have driven electric even without these perks.

I'm preparing for my third AGM of the owners association since I got my first EV but I lost the hope something will be done. Fortunately for me now I have a DC charger at work and a bank of AC chargers within walking distance from home. In the last 6 months I have not used a DC charger from ecars.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138674#Comment_118138674

Having a DC charger at work, that renders the requirement almost moot to have a home charger! #knowyourprivilege LOL

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139918#Comment_118139918

Well somehow. It is the only charger for a carpark of 1400 spaces and also public accessible. It is one of the most expensive @40c/kWh but I still prefer it to ecars. It is only a year old so quite recent install. But yes it made my life easier and probably tipped the balance in deciding to get the second EV.

unkel

In more advanced countries like Norway or the Netherlands it is now the norm to buy a full EV without having home (or work) charging. Their public charging infrastructure is years ahead of ours though.

Over here it very much depends on how convenient to you a local charge point is and how much of a priority it is for you to have an EV. And even if you had to charge at public charge points exclusively, you'd still have substantial savings on your fuel. And quite likely on the other cost of the car as well, like maintenance and depreciation. For one I would not buy a new diesel car now, nobody will want it in a few years time and your depreciation will be massive

SteelyDanJalapeno

I have an ID.3 with about 8 months now with now home charger, I charge it for free in work twice a week, if I need 100% for some reason, I can top it up with the regular outlet in plenty time over night

I have no requirement for a home charger right now.

bigmac3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143838#Comment_118143838

This is what I do, I’m trying to figure out why I need to spend 100s on a home charger?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143927#Comment_118143927

You can get a home charger installed pretty much for free, courtesy of the tax payer. Why wouldn't you?

L1011

Been an EV user - work car - without either a home charger or a work charger.

Could do two round trips home-work-home easily on one 80% charge, I think that efficient driving and no AC might have got me three.

Was during Lockdown 1 so there was never any contention for the nearby on-street slow charger, just paid and expensed parking for it; and used the rapid at Supervalu Lucan once a week or so.

You can do it but I wouldn't recommend it. I suspect now with more demand for public charging infrastructure it'd be horrible.

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143983#Comment_118143983

I've never looked into it, never seen the need, is it really free?

I'd obviously get it if so

unkel

If you are smart, buy a second hand charge point or one of the cheaper new ones. And know a friendly electrician who will just charge you for labour and materials and not add €500 just cos it's a subsidy job. Then yes, you can have a charge point installed for around €600. And get that €600 back as subsidy. So free. Several people on this forum have managed to do just that.

This is obviously for a straight forward install where the charge point is on the outside wall near where the consumer unit is on the inside of the same wall or close to it. Any more complex installs will cost extra.

Jog501

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144233#Comment_118144233

Any advice on where you can find these cheap chargers? The cheapest I've seen is the Elli and that is almost €500. Nothing much on Done Deal or Adverts in the 2nd hand market and UK is out of the question now due to VAT/customs..

unkel

Keep a lookout. Adverts.ie, DoneDeal, FaceBook Irish EV owners groups, FaceBook MarketPlace, eBay, etc.

DavidOstrech

I never owned an EV charger at home as I live in a flat, but have owned both a full EV (Skoda Enyaq) as wel as a hybrid (Toyota Camry).

Living in London, it was mostly ok driving with the Skoda, although there a few occassions where I noticed that having an EV charger at home might have saved me some time and money.

If you're driving a hybrid though, you don't have to worry about this. At all. So in my opinion, for those who dont have an EV charger and want to be on the safe side, I recommend considering a hybrid. Or vice versa, if you have a hybrid, you absolutely dont have to worry about not having an EV charger at home.

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140107#Comment_118140107

This is mostly due to tax incentives, and could be easily replicated here if our government wanted to. In Norway, it's mostly due to the number of EVs creating the demand for public charging infrastructure. In the Netherlands, there are tax incentives for installing EV chargers (which has resulted in NL having nearly a third of the total number of public EV chargers in the EU). Of these, most are <= 22kW (the most recent figures I could find are from 2019, where 2% of the total public EV chargers were "fast" chargers, defined as 22kW). This high number of AC charge points allow people to charge at destinations, and the DC chargers are for people travelling long distances or who don't regularly make trips to places with destination chargers. To achieve a similar ratio of fast charge points to filling stations, we should have 400 fast charge points, which would give us a similar number of fast chargers per capita, but to achieve the same ratio of fast charge points to land area, we would require approx. 1700.

In Ireland, we don't have enough EVs to warrant commercial operators setting up facilities, and the tax incentives are not in place to encourage the creation of infrastructure which would induce demand. The government seems to be concentrating on stimulating demand among people with off-street parking, which makes sense given the high level of housing with it's own driveway, but ignores that this is more prevalent outside Dublin, where people generally travel longer distances on average, which leads to a higher reliance on public charge points. This strategy is cheaper than providing/incentivising public charging infrastructure.

The ESB are fulfilling the role that is required of the state electricity provider. They are putting in a level of infrastructure that allows travel, albeit with the risk of having to wait for a charger to become available. On trunk routes, they should concentrate on ensuring there are no single chargers, where there is a single point of failure.

The problem of the combination of government policy and the ESB's role is that there isn't enough demand for commercial operators to create a network of public charge points, particularly fast chargers.

There should be an actual plan on how to encourage commercial operators to increase the number of charge points (probably by reducing the cost of a grid connection for a fast charger hub) and to increase the number of chargers at motorway service stations. The state does not sell petrol/diesel, and should only be involved in public charging infrastructure until the market has matured enough that commercial operations are viable, and to ensure that there is the capability to travel longer distances, even if it involves suboptimal routing and potential delay.

There should also be a dual strategy of continuing to encourage the installation of home charge points, but also to encourage the installation of public fast charge points in towns and cities of sufficient size and population density.

Dayor Knight

I bought an ID.3 in September and have been driving it now for about eight weeks, without a home charger (will be getting one). So I've been charging using Fast chargers only.

Based on my experience so far, I would be more than happy to have the EV even if I never had a home charger. I'd say I do about 1000 km per month around Dublin, so 250 km per week on average. I know where the most convenient fast chargers are, for me, so I just make sure to pass those a couple of times a week - if it's free I stop and get a charge boost for about 20 minutes. if not I'll pass again another time. A couple of those per week gives me plenty of charge for my needs.

Having said all that, I do plan to get a home charger for the convenience of it and of course it's cheaper long term. But I wouldn't rule out an EV if you don't have the possibility of a home charger.

It will depend on your own likely needs and where you live of course.

marc1

I’d love the group’s opinion if it’s more feasible with some of the new tech cars that can charge at 200+ kW. If you’re living close-ish to a super-fast charger you could charge once week for 15-20 mins and that should do it? Shouldn’t be much more inconvenient than a ICE car? Or what am I missing (other than that 90% of the population doesn’t live close to a 200+ kW charger I guess)

I sometimes charge at a 150kw charger in a McDonalds car park between the Gym and my home.

I don't get a full 100kW (which is the limit for my car) out of the charger as the battery isn't up to temperature on a short trip between home and Gym.

I'd get more like 75kW. If the other stall is occupied I'd only be getting 75kW anyhow.

I'd usually only stay at the fast charger for 10 to 15 minutes unless I have a book I want to read.

These days I am mostly destination charging at an 11kw charger in multi storey car parks. Yesterday I nearly fully charged my car while having brunch with a friend.

innrain

If the gov is serious about it, they should pass the "right to charge" law, basically forcing landlords and or owners associations to consider the issue. California was one of the first state to introduce it and now more and more states in the US are getting it on. What is interesting with this law is that it brings in the framework under which installations can be done. Like who is paying for the install and the level of insurance required. Or how to deal with the case of non allocated parking space. (i.e. short term lease for a minor amount). But most importantly they can't ignore the request. They can come with an astronomical figure but it is a start. Right now from what I have experienced personally and I have been told by others, the issue is ignored completely. We'll see is the answer. Not No, not Yes. It is a typical attitude where people in charge do not want to make a decision and come up with something like "Net 0 by 2050" putting the issue behind them. So get on your elected representative and push for it. Sooner or later it will happen anyway but it will be messy until it does.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132112#Comment_118132112

Wow,that's mental in my opinion.

Imagine paying however much you paid for a car and having all that hassle?

I can see why you wouldn't go back to it.

Royale with Cheese

The car was bought to take advantage of the BIK rules for as long as possible, the seai grant for business purchases was being removed entirely about a month after I bought the car too. Also I had planned to move to somewhere with its own driveway much sooner but... covid. If I hadn't bought the car at that point I don't think I'd have bothered at all.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174058#Comment_118174058

Are you really that surprised? Any time petrol / diesel is stunted with at €0.99 per litre, there are queues for miles with people waiting 3 hours to save €20

With an EV you could well save €5,000 per year. Well worth having to public charge once or twice a week when you happen to pass a fast charger, have a gap in your schedule and play on your phone / read emails / chill / have a nap for half an hour 😂

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174148#Comment_118174148

Look I get it,you're an EV fan and I've read you posts on here before,they're informative and I respect your opinion.However none of it makes any sense to the average working man or woman under the current circumstances. My Mrs is open to getting a old EV for her work commute but we don't have the option of a home charger(like a lot of people so that's out)

My cars costs €70 and 3 minutes at the new high prices to drive a 1000km.Its a nice coupe, it's fast and it get positive comments and looks everywhere I go,people have often come up to me and asked about it.

If I want to nap or check my emails I do it when it suits,not when my new EV dictates to me.If I'm paying €50k for something (which like most people I can't afford) I will be needing something that makes my life less rather than more complicated.

ELM327

An old EV wont work with incidental charging. But a Tesla (like Unkel has) would absolutely. Especially if you live in Dublin and dont do much mileage.

That Tesla can charge at 22kW on AC. Go park at a lidl for 2 hours and you've added 200km of range. When I lived in Dublin that would do me for a week. There's at least 4-5 hours dead time in everyones week. be that for shopping, going for coffee, meeting friends etc. if you combine that with (free where possible!) AC charging it's absolutely possible to not impinge your life at all.

unkel

Who said €50k? My last full EV I bought cost me just over €2k and is cheaper in total cost of ownership than any old petrol or diesel banger someone gives you for free. The "us normal working people can't afford an EV" is a total load of bollocks

But yeah, I'm normally saying don't buy an EV as your only car in Ireland if you neither have home nor work charging. But for some people (see above) the money saving alone is so huge that they don't mind having to publicly charge

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174239#Comment_118174239

1000km for €70 petrol. It’s not fast :)

my wife’s 520d wouldn’t even get that!

my last fast car would be lucky to do 130km for €50!

what car is it?

Megane Diesel Coupe could do that but it couldn't be described as fast.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174910#Comment_118174910

I call BS on his 1000km for €70 petrol claim. €70 petrol at the current €1.70/l price and rising every day, would be 41 liters. Or 4.1l/100km ((282.481/(4.1 L/100 km) = 68.898 Imperial mpg in old money))

You're not doing that without a battery and/or a plug (maybe a super efficient diesel could just about manage it on a single trip but not over a series of trips

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175443#Comment_118175443

If you even take it as being a diesel, and assume they have AA for 4c off per litre, then you are still needing to get 4.4 l/100km (64 mpg).

The BMW 320d Coupe (E92) has an official extra urban consumption of 4.4 l/100km (this test is done over 4.3 miles at an average of 39mph), but real world it's expected to use 50% above its test figure. I wouldn't consider it to be a particularly fast car that would get a lot of positive comments or looks.

redcup342

Had a Tesla M3 for just over 1.5 years and just came up on 29000 km this week.

Have underground parking but no charging available, could get it installed but don't really need it.

Basically whenever I go somewhere like the Gym, Shopping, Work, whatever else I'll plug it in and get whatever charge I can recover with a limit of 80%, rarely do a full charge on a station.

Haven't really been at the office though since Covid, should do that more as there is free charging there I guess ;)

Did 2 week trip ending last week from Dusseldorf - Kolobrzeg - Gizycko - Warsaw - Katowice (Poland) - Zvolen (Slovakia) - Budapest (Hungary - Brno - Jihlava (Czech Rebublic) - Nueremburg - Dusseldorf (Germany)

Between the trip and stays I racked up around 3400 kilometers.

Have a 25 meter 16AMP Extension lead I keep in the boot and that does my for a long overnight charge, just to get to a DC Loader.

In short I wouldn't say there is any problem with not having home charging as long as you incorporate charging into your normal daily routine, even if you only load 5 or 10kWh here and there you just need to load more than the kilometers you drive.

TBH having underground heating parking is better than having overground parking with a charger as you don't need to worry about preheating the battery when its really cold weather and much more efficient than trying to heat up a stone cold battery before you set off.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174910#Comment_118174910

It's diesel RCZ,163 bhp,0-60 7.9 seconds.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175443#Comment_118175443

It's diesel,never said petrol in OP.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175954#Comment_118175954

So, underpowered and slow, and yet still wouldnt get the needed <4.4l for your "€70 per 1000km" claim. Thanks for clarifying.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175954#Comment_118175954

That's not fast!! Most basic EV's are faster than that to 60 and would monster you in a foot down from 40mph!!

Nice looking car though I will give you that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176664#Comment_118176664

My supermini EV can out-accelerate that RCZ but I nearly bought one of them about 6 or 7 years ago.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176112#Comment_118176112

I fill the 55 litre tank and its gets about a 1000km

Very economical,not sure what you don't understand here?

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176664#Comment_118176664

Lads,at no point did i say it was faster than a EV over the first bit! Seriouly read the posts!

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143983#Comment_118143983

Not all apartments and houses are suitable for charger installation.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177381#Comment_118177381

Indeed. Did I mention otherwise? I was replying to a poster who was wondering should he go ahead and buy a charge point. So his home obviously was suitable for a charge point installation.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177381#Comment_118177381

And not all posters read previous posts.

the reply was to another poster that is eligible for a charge point.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177335#Comment_118177335

If you fill the 55 litre tank and it gets you 1000km, thats 5.5l/100km and perfectly believable. However you said 70€ per 1000km and that's not true.55 litres is likely to be near 90+ quid these days unless you're running the green

Fingleberries

Please can we move on from the investigation into what type of car they own ... it's a diesel RCZ and while under the right circumstances - like the WLTP range of an EV - the mileage might be in the ballpark of what was shared, typically it would not. Either way, with the rising prices at the pump the price to fill the car will definitely get higher.

It would be of benefit to the conversation in this thread and focus the discussion on the experiences and questions around the practicalities of living with an EV in one of the many housing situations in Ireland where a home charger is not feasible - apartment block, terraced house, on-street parking, etc.

For me, this is an interesting topic, as I am awaiting delivery of an ID3 in the new year and don't have a home charger - I do have a work charger and plenty of public chargers in the neighbourhood. However, Learning from the lived experience of others and the questions that others have, that I might not have thought of, is defnitely helping me and hopefully others to be prepared.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180139#Comment_118180139

20kwh over 10 hours at night from a standard wall socket is more than enough for most who chose to do without a wall charger. I have the 220v cable but rarely use it. If you have night rate electricity then so much the better.