Why is it illegal to use Metal Detectors in Ireland

Say you dropped a ring and are searching for it. That's not illegal.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115676#Comment_118115676

Every road construction project by law has archeologists working on it. Here's some details on some of the archaeological finds during planning and construction of another stretch of the N5 https://www.tii.ie/news/archaeology/n5-irish-history-podcast/ & https://www.heritageweek.ie/projects/n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramogue-road-project-archaeology-videos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116013#Comment_118116013

When I was a kid there was a little cluster of ruined cottages near my house. I always wanted to explore it, just to find historical stuff like old famine era houseware and the like. I never did because I was told it wasn't right to dig around it.

Came home from college a few years later to find the ruins literally bulldozed flat.

Reclaiming the land.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116061#Comment_118116061

But doesn't that say something that the national heritage department are traipsing around behind these road projects?

Whose project do we think has priority in those scenarios?

Grab All Association

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116019#Comment_118116019

i was just about to comment that.

it’s illegal to go out and try find artefacts coins etc, but you can use a metal detector for other purposes like finding items you’ve lost wedding rings etc

Burt Renaults

Would a metal detector not spend the whole time detecting its own metal parts?

jill_valentine

The second you pull something out of the ground, you have erased almost everything there is to be learned from it. Its like wiping it down for fingerprints.

If every yahoo in the country had a metal detector, we wouldn't have a ringfort or a cairn left.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116206#Comment_118116206

If every yahoo in the country had a metal detector, we wouldn't have a ringfort or a cairn left.

I don't think every yahoo in the country would be asking Santa for a metal detector. Amateur historians and treasure hunters, maybe.

Also, if you pull it out of the ground you have it in your hands and have rescued it from potential oblivion or destruction under the wheels of industrial progress.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116225#Comment_118116225

But you have also excluded the possibility of a proper archaeological investigation of the artefact in situ. And in a lot of cases this would be stuff that wasn't under imminent threat from development anyway.

The answer to the problem of insufficient resources for archaeological investigation of development sites is not to create a second mechanism by which archaeological heritage may be degraded or destroyed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116127#Comment_118116127

Indeed. And just happened to stumble upon a Celtic treasure in the process. Nothing illegal about it, it's the intention that's important, i.e. searching for your ring you unfortunately had dropped.

Cedric the Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115676#Comment_118115676

2018 at least...a big gold hoard accidentally found in Donegal:

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/06/28/news/farmer-uncovers-ancient-gold-hoard-while-digging-drain-1368159/

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116336#Comment_118116336

It's illegal to use a detector (without permission) for any purpose at a national monument, registered archaeological area or restricted area.

It's illegal to use it (without permission) at any other place for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects. However if you're using it at all you're presumed to be using it for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects; it's up to you to show that you aren't.

If you're using it legitimately and you happen to find an archaeological object you are of course obliged to report the find and to allow the National Museum to take possession of the object. And of course it's illegal for you to damage an archaeological object.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116387#Comment_118116387

Nothing in that disagrees with what I said.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116395#Comment_118116395

Well, you didn't mention that there are places where using a detector for any purpose is a crime. Your statement is only good for places that are not national monuments, etc. Also the necessity to be able to prove your legitimate intention is something the casual user might need to be aware of.

But I wasn't really aiming to correct what you said - more to supplement it with other relevant information.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115829#Comment_118115829

Lol. Boom time and archeologist in the one sentence as if they get paid "boom time" wages.

whisky_galore

The reality is, like so many other things in Ireland, you can use one but you're unlikely to actually get caught.

If a lad letting off fireworks in the middle of a city (and on video) isn't caught on the spot, then you're unlikely to get caught quietly detecting at an isolated beach somewhere.

looksee

In the past even archaeologists - many of whom were really not much more than the equivalent of metal detectorists but without the technology - would dig around looking for 'treasure' in the name of historical investigation. What they wanted was the dramatic stuff, the gold and coins and swords and so on. In the process they destroyed both the environment of the find, the layers of earth showing the history of the site, and such things as wrappings were discarded. Fabric tells a much more interesting and detailed story about history than pieces of gold, but it was dumped and ignored. Now it is all given much more attention, but it waits until the state can afford to do it properly. If time passes, then fine, better ways of examining and analysing things are being developed all the time.

Obviously things are going to be turned up accidentally now and again, but that is a lot different to every randomer who wants to treasure hunt going around with a metal detector. The treasure is not the pieces of gold, it is the entire story that surrounds it. There may be an odd coin or bit of jewellery lying under the surface of fields that might be turned up with no history attached, but it is impossible to legislate for deliberately searching for them without opening the floodgates to people greedily tearing places apart.

Furze99

There's a germ of truth in many of these answers, that stuff is 'just left to rot in the ground', that it's best 'left to rot in the ground' until the proper people dig it, that the treasures of the country would be dug up and sold privately, that much gets destroyed during infrastructural developments, that much gets destroyed by bulldozing agricultural land and so on.

Surely there's a half way house of some sort between the professional archaeologist on a state contract and the treasure seeking amateur. As neither are a good solution. Perhaps a licencing system for the enthusiastic amateur following a training course over a couple of weekends. That would allow interested parties to explore away but understand the point where suspected significant finds would be reported to the state for more thorough investigation.

A lot of what we have in the National Museum was dug up by ordinary citizens in the past.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116114#Comment_118116114

Hang on, you complained that they were building roads without any consideration for archeology in one post, and then when it was pointed out to you that this isn't the case, suddenly you have a problem with the fact that they do involve archeologists? Your use of the word "treasure" in that post is interesting too. Implies glory hunting instead of actual interest in archeology, anthropology and history.

I assume from your posts there's a personal agenda at play. Good luck with it.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116625#Comment_118116625

a lot of the reason to leave it in the ground is that once it's dug up, as mentioned a couple of times, the context and a lot of information is destroyed.

so one reason to leave it in the ground is that in 20 or 50 years time we will have technology which can glean more from the finds than we can now.

for example, i watched the recent BBC doc about the discovery that stonehenge was originally located in wales, and they now have a technology which can determine when soil was last exposed to light, which was something i'd not heard of before.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116898#Comment_118116898

Ah, a combat post. How original.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116625#Comment_118116625

Perhaps a licencing system for the enthusiastic amateur following a training course over a couple of weekends. That would allow interested parties to explore away but understand the point where suspected significant finds would be reported to the state for more thorough investigation.

That's a great idea. They could also tag the detector so it records where and what it finds.

cnocbui

My house is on a hillside. I wasn't involved in it's planning or construction, I bought it semi finished. For some reason, they dug out the top part of the hill to a depth of at least 4m and dumped what was dug on the lower part of the hill to form a flatter site.

Sorry, you were saying something about erasing and context, I missed that...

While they may employ archaeologists on road constructions, you won't know something significant has been found until a digger has done 100,000 times as much context erasing as a detectorist in a field would have.

I have used a metal detector in Australia to look for gold. I actually did find a nice little nugget and my late mother wore it as a necklace. So I think I know something about the process. The detector is very precise, and the operator is usually someone lazy like me, so will only do the minimum of digging to get to and identify a target. The amount of disturbance of context is negligible and is no more than would have to occur anyway, unless you know of archaeologists with a 6th sense who can know beforehand what beeped and whether there is anything above it that was contextually important.

Perhaps the archaeology supporters have some ludicrous notion in their head of archaeologists wandering Ireland with metal detectors, carefully laying down a scale marker, photographing the site of a beep and then erecting a protective tent and digging down carefully through sodden soil, 1mm at a time, sifting each layer for important context clues, until they reach their target, several weeks later.

Pure BS. 99.999 % of the time, the target beep is a nail, a bit of an old can, a bit of fence wire, a shotgun cartridge, perhaps if you are really lucky, a copper coin a few decades old. You wouldn't believe the crap I came across while looking for that nugget. The bottom line is that you can not afford to do an archaeologically careful dig until you know there is something worth the effort there. That knowledge can't be had until you have done exactly what a detectorist does, dig a minimal sized hole until you find what beeped.

The truth is the government don't want people to find things relevant to the countries heritage because there would then be a call for them to spend money on digs and conservation and such - they would rather pay for 1,000 utterly unnecessary NHS 'managers on borderline six figure salaries, than for 8 archaeologists and 10 conservation technicians to handle the finds of detectorists.

I have read many stories about significant detectorist finds in the UK and many tell of the detectorist finding something significant, stopping and alerting archaeologists and getting them in to context to their hearts content.

The entirety of the anti-argument is pure begrudgery and naive belief that finds left 'preserved' in the ground will one day be properly investigated with due archaeological care. The reality is that wont happen and they will never be known about. Better to have never known of somethings existence than have it's precious context 'disturbed'..

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118079#Comment_118118079

The powers that be do talk the talk but are less inclined to walk the walk regarding heritage, when it costs them any money that is.

I can't see any good reason why they can't be used well away from known and mapped archaeological sites and beaches, apart from the aforementioned begrudgery and academic snobbery that common people can't be trusted to use them correctly. According to the law; a 20p piece or a headlight off a Ford Anglia may be an 'archaeological artefact'.

cj maxx

I just had a Google and you can buy one for £200.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118079#Comment_118118079

I have read many stories about significant detectorist finds in the UK and many tell of the detectorist finding something significant, stopping and alerting archaeologists and getting them in to context to their hearts content.

there was a time team special years back where they were following a long dig, and they had to drive tony robinson in with a blanket over his head, do his piece to camera in a hurry and then get the hell out of there, they were so worried that he'd be spotted by detectorists who would pillage the site, if they knew it was significant enough to attract a time team camera crew.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118465#Comment_118118465

Pick up a couple of books by Gary Drayton too, if you’re looking to get serious with metal detecting.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118813#Comment_118118813

I'd love to , I always had an interest in history and archaeology. But unfortunately I Don think I'd be up to the walking. Be handy for finding steeples that pull out of barbed wire fences though !

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118465#Comment_118118465

that cheap? IIRC maplins used to sell them for much cheaper. i wonder if the sales assistant would warn you of the legal situation as he was printing off your receipt.

The cost varies a lot depending on the technology and weight, etc. You can get some lightweight stealthy ones but I'm not sure how good they are.

By the way, it's not illegal to buy one.