PUP fraud €183k, should the guilty be stripped of citizenship?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136511#Comment_118136511

This just sums the thread up nicely, talk about 1000's of Irish people committing fraud is met with 'Oh it wouldn't be cost effective to prosecute those people, lets' just write it off', if someone from a less desirable country does it though, prosecute, revoke citizenship and deport is the only logical solution.

Hard to see people so comfortable in advocating for this type of a society.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136761#Comment_118136761

Come for a better life ,or a better payout on criminal enterprise and we get faux tears of equality

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136089#Comment_118136089

Dundalk. I'd be horrified ending up there too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135708#Comment_118135708

Which didn't answer the question. Do you suggest that foreign born Irish citizens be banned?

What about dual citizens that are born in ireland? One Irish parent one foreign parent, do you suggest that they should be banned?

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136853#Comment_118136853

Yup , ban them and all their neighbours just in case they're up to no good.

CramCycle

I'm presuming by this thinking we can revoke the right of any Irish citizen who commits a crime. Lets just pull their passport, no matter whether they were born here or not and put them in a dingy in international waters and abandon them. If people want these two lads gone then we need it for all Irish citizens. Pat down the road from me has been claiming the dole and working nixers for years, lets drop him in international waters with no ID. That's what people are saying here right, you break the law we take your citizenship without discrimination and drop you elsewhere. Jesus, this will go well.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136947#Comment_118136947

Check out post 361. When it comes to Irish people committing such offences, at least some people don't think it is worth the while to investigate...

Gatling

@CramCycle

Pat down the road from me has been claiming the dole and working nixers for years, lets drop him in international waters with no ID. That's what people are saying here right, you break the law we take your citizenship without discrimination and drop you elsewhere. Jesus, this will go well.

That's some sensationalism shite there 👏👏👏

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137746#Comment_118137746

You're pretty much doing the same thing to someone who may have fled their country, for any number of legitimate reasons and where they might not exactly be welcomed back with open arms.

At least moving towards seeing how ridiculous an idea it is.

knipex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105086#Comment_118105086

Unless you have some data or evidence to support the 90% + claim then I suggest you withdraw it.

Im very very confident you dont because I have heard similar claims repeated multiple times yet not once have i seen any data to support it. However repetition has resulted in many people believing its true.

I know a Nigerian family, Husband, Wife and 3 kids. Husband is a Surgeon wife an anesthetist, all three kids born and raised in Ireland. The oldest is in University. I only recently realised (and witnessed) the level of racism and downright abuse they endure daily, trying to buy a car, going to a shop, renting anything, even going to a bar or resteraunt for lunch or to book a hotel means looks, comments, smirks and downright hostility. Its embarrassing and infuriating..

Gatling

@knipex Unless you have some data or evidence to support the 90% + claim then I suggest you withdraw it.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 .

Nice anecdotal story but nahh not buying it

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139988#Comment_118139988

Anecdotal Story >story pulled from thin air

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142578#Comment_118142578

We agree 😄

(No points scored )

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137874#Comment_118137874

Michael mc dowell , the then justice minister stating over 80% were frauds, he'd be cancelled nowadays if he said it!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/minister-pledges-to-deport-bogus-asylum-seekers-1.1088883

the hard working immigrants here to help pay our pensions is the oft trotted line. Over 60% on fingals housing list weren't Irish 10 years ago. The hard working immigrants are twice as likely as paddy to have the government pay their rent! Less facts more anecdotes ta in advance knipex.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142747#Comment_118142747

he'd be cancelled nowadays if he said

Can't get much more cancelled than going in to an election as Party Leader, TD and Tanaiste and coming out of it unelected I would have thought.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142706#Comment_118142706

I'm taking that as some form of admittal that you made up the figure of 90% you were questioned about earlier.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142895#Comment_118142895

No I stand by it .

Justice minister said 80% then and it's likely increased above 80% now .

Yes I'm standing by what I said ..

Gatling

Oddly enough we've sent several civil servants to bring a batch of 300 refugees in from Syria ,

Add the latest idea that asylum seekers will arrive and get their forever homes here in 12 weeks from the time they arrive to getting their asylum granted ,

Meanwhile 70.000 + languishing on housing lists 10 + years ,so we really will have a different class of citizen here ,

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142747#Comment_118142747

Just looking more closely at that article.

Where did you get that 0ver 60% of those on the Fingal housing list weren't Irish 10 years ago? In the article you linked, it stated,

I also asked what percentage of those waiting for social housing fell into these same categories. Some 61pc are Irish citizens (some might be naturalised immigrants), and the rest (39pc) are citizens of other countries, with 16pc from outside the EU.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142910#Comment_118142910

Have you a link to the justice minister saying it, or being reported to have said it, I'm curious about the context.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142944#Comment_118142944

oddly enough?

that is totally normal and makes sense.

members of AGS and dept of foreign affairs go interview, fingerprint and photograph potentials, and then decide who to let in.

I would have thought it perfectly reasonable considering we are taking them in. Can't understand anyone arguing with that!

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143359#Comment_118143359

Like Isis Lisa ,or isis Arthur or the terrorist from Algeria ,or the Nigerian drugs dealers who fled Italy before their trial ended and Walked into here and Claimed asylum and eventually citizenship here before anyone noticed the international arrest warrant ,

So what can Garda dougal tell us about the 300 in this batch Syrians ,let me guess he conducted a back round check

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143390#Comment_118143390

did you miss the bit Where they are interviewed, fingerprinted, photographed and yes background checks are done.

All four of the people you mentioned were not. Obvious I would have thought in the case of the irish🙄🙄

Considering you have an issue with those four, I would imagine you would welcome such vigorous interview process.

But, no pleasing you I guess, until we go back to 1950 🙄

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137746#Comment_118137746

I think you are missing my sarcasm. The point is though, they are Irish Citizens, end of discussion, so if this is what people are proposing for our own citizens, then own it. There are plenty of people here who have stolen far more from our pockets and haven't even seen the inside of a jail cell. I am all for punishing everyone to the full extent of the law but why people think that it is okay to go above and beyond because someone was born somewhere else is beyond me. A lad being born in Longford, Fermanagh, Dublin or Louth (I could pick one person from each of these counties who on their own would dwarf the cost to the Irish state in comparison to the total cost from every other person born somewhere else) doesn't make them any more tolerable than being born anywhere else on the planet. So money where your mouth is, they all go or we just stick to the rules.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144258#Comment_118144258

I am all for punishing everyone to the full extent of the law but why people think that it is okay to go above and beyond because someone was born somewhere else is beyond me

Personally, I'd say that the person in question, as a non-native, has broken the agreement when they signed to become a citizen. There is some space of understanding for crimes of passion, or where someone unavoidably was part of a crime, but when someone intentionally seeks to commit a crime, and/or intentionally seeks to defraud the State, I'd consider them breaking the terms of citizenship, and so, it could be revoked.

Perhaps it is a form of discrimination, although I don't see it as such. I see it as a response to the breaking of the oath given when becoming a citizen. Native people aren't required to make such a similar oath due to being born here, but I guess you could suggest that all natives make the same oath, and then, bring the same consequences against those who break it. I'd have no issue with that.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143406#Comment_118143406

How do you do a background check when the country they are coming from barely exists outside of one city ,

Tell me how deep and extensive is the backround check ,is it a case of whats your name and we will check it in the pulse system , considering they have abjectly failed to keep foreign criminals out of the state as it is , even when people have international arrest warrants they still manage to come here and claims asylum and eventual citizenship ,I actually don't think we've ever heard of anyone being denied here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144678#Comment_118144678

OuR Constitution says different. All citizens are equal before the law.

Thankfully, we don't have a system which allows for different treatment of people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144940#Comment_118144940

You may not have heard of people being denied. Why do you think you should?

Unless you work in the system why do you think you're entitled to know that?

Do you have a problem with background checks, done as well as they can be? Perhaps you would prefer no checks or interviews or photographs or fingerprints??

Which foreign criminals exactly have they failed to keep out of the state?

Gatling

@bubblypop

Which foreign criminals exactly have they failed to keep out of the state,

Murders , rapists ,drug dealers, human traffickers , terrorist supporters ,

Of course we should hear about it , actually I reckon there would be regular court cases about it ,

Is this the cop out post of oh we don't know but it must happen ,but no it doesn't happen ,

In a warzone where the country is divided by multiple factions as we see in Syria and no real central government outside of Damascus ,

How exactly do you expect they can carry out a full and deep backround check.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145518#Comment_118145518

Have you any examples of all these criminals you keep mentioning?

Why would you hear of people who are, not picked as refugees, denied entry to the country at the airport and denied right to stay? If you wish to see court cases you can pop on down to the courts whenever you wish and sit in on cases.

You have already proven time and time again that you have no idea how any of the systems which have in place here, work. Either educate yourself or please stop fabricating stories.