PUP fraud €183k, should the guilty be stripped of citizenship?

Juran

One is an Irish citizen, not clear if the second person is. Both born outside the Ireland/EU.

False passports, paperwork, etc involved. Questions the validity of the documents submitted to obtain citizenship.

Apart from that, whst are peoples thoughts, should a person guilty of such a crime (or any serious crime) lose their citizenship ?

I think yes. If this was Australia, USA or UK, I understand they would be stripped and deported.

Two men plead guilty to money-laundering conspiracy involving over €183,000 in fraudulent Pandemic Unemployment Payments

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/two-men-plead-guilty-to-money-laundering-conspiracy-involving-over-183000-in-fraudulent-pandemic-unemployment-payments-41006547.html

listermint

Yes maybe. But that would also mean they get off prison ?

Potential-Monke

Seems they're both from Nigeria. I'm sure there'll be cooperation with the German banks/EU to help get further into this, but for now the 2 of them have cost the state enough already, they should be sent back. No ifs, ands or buts. Imo.

Montage of Feck

They seem to be blatantly exploiting their Irish citizenship for personal gain by fraud. We seem to have the idea of citizenship arseways here at the moment it favours the individual rather than the nation.

Darc19

How did the post office permit so many accounts to be opened.

Suggests a security flaw.

Juran

I'll be very interested to see how this unfolds. I predict suspended sentences and the taxi driver will be back at work within weeks, and both will stay in Ireland.

Danzy

Of course they should have their citizenship and residency revoked.

Strange world that that is not a given.

washman3

A great little country indeed....

No wonder many Nigerians refer to Ireland as 'treasure island'

Galwayguy35

These guys must be laughing at how easy it is to play the system, no wonder Nigerans are so keen to come here.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

A drop in the ocean.

Murph85

Has joe Duffy and rte been on championing this fraud yet? Asking how they are expected to live on a mere 183k over 18 months...

I can see that Duffy gobshite, having your man on and telling him " shure isnt it awful you were caught "...

Careful now lads, I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell us we're all racist...

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103896#Comment_118103896

They will be made heroes out of. They showed the system isnt working. Expect the freedom of the city and a free gaf if they dont already have one...

billyhead

It's a joke of a country. Try going over to Nigeria as an Irishman and claim the dole.

Gatling

Prison and then deport ,but our current minister of justice doesn't believe in deporting foreign criminals,

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/cab-returns-over-5m-to-nigerian-government-after-money-was-stolen-from-public-funds-report-40843891.html

As a start no money should be returned to the Nigerian government until the costs associated with their citizens are paid in full

HTCOne

Work them til they pay it all back then deport them.

SEPT 23 1989

Not the sharpest tools in the shed are they

“The Chairman” must be some bell end if these two are his main earners

CA xenophobia is alive and well

jimmycrackcorm

It's a pity our "free press" is unwilling to investigate how these Nigerians ended up living in Ireland. I'd be very certain that whatever asylum claims they might have made were bogus. It's not as if having loads of fake passports is different than what you might claim asylum for.

It won't be followed up for fear of upsetting the direct provision objectors.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104101#Comment_118104101

The chairman as 140k or thereabouts in his arse pocket. I'd say he did alright out of the expendable gobshites (if he exists)

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104031#Comment_118104031

Straight deport. Can't afford to be wasting more taxpayers money on these chancers. The legal system is another joke with the appeals process.

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215967/pup-fraud-183k-should-the-guilty-be-stripped-of-citizenship

Yes - we give out citizenship too cheaply, should be any involvement in serious fraud etc within 10 years- out the gap

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104165#Comment_118104165

Agreed

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104165#Comment_118104165

Our country is a fuc***g joke laughed at and abused by whomever lands here illegally,I’ve 2 neighbours left in the lurch by Africans as soon they got their citizenship, both chaps came in illegally- this is going on for years ,

between this and arranged false marriages, Lithuanian drug gangs, Romanian atm scammer’s, it’s about shagging time we wised up, look after IRISH homeless first, suspend foreign aid , sort out Ireland 🇮🇪 then and only then think about foreign aid, ps I don’t care what ppl think this is an honest appraisal

Zak Flaps

Without a shadow of a doubt they should be booted out of the country. I can't understand why they shouldn't be.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104248#Comment_118104248

The problem is the racist card comes into play with all the do gooders. As you said we need to sort out are own problems with homelessness first than wasting taxpayers money on these spongers, wasters and frauds. Now not all of these immigrants are and some are hard working and want to contribute to society and the economy and integrate into our culture but for the rest.

Well, two parts of the INC Act 1956 were ruled unconstitutional not too long ago, so there'll be no revocation of any citizenship.

.42.

Funny enough there was 10s of millions of euro fraudulently claimed by 1000s of Irish people with PUP . Still happening today.

Government should be rounding these people up also and have all of them in court over the next few years to recover the money.

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104295#Comment_118104295

Quite agree 👍btw I’ve close friends Romanian and Nigerian so am being honest, sons mum is Romanian so definitely not racist but finding it on here that the racist card comes out too quickly- country is in trouble

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104301#Comment_118104301

Not funny at all

Up At Fleecies

Send them packing back to whence they came, if your on the take and here for a scam, back to your home country, no ifs no buts, be gone!

Richard Hillman

I was on PUP for about 2 weeks last April. I was taken aback at how easy it was. Basically you just needed a PPS Number.

Anybody who had have worked or lived in Ireland at any stage could have signed up for it. And could still be on it.

looksee

While I absolutely agree that if citizenship is obtained on false papers or other fraud it should be revoked and the people deported, I don't see how you could administer removing citizenship for other reasons.

If a person is made a citizen then that's it, they are a citizen. This presumes that citizenship is only granted to people with clean criminal records. Otherwise you are giving them provisional citizenship, you can be Irish as long as you behave.

Do you have a sliding scale of offences for which someone can be stripped of their citizenship? Can it be revoked for a motoring offence? Where do you start. And what about people who have given up their original citizenship, where would they be deported to? Its far more complex than just saying 'throw out all dodgy Nigerians'. If they (or any other nationality) are all that dodgy then don't let them in in the first place, or at least don't give them citizenship.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215967/pup-fraud-183k-should-the-guilty-be-stripped-of-citizenship

Fraud during a pandemic?

20-years in prison, then a third-class flight back to Nigeria with a permanent ban to enter any EU country for life.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103979#Comment_118103979

FFS. How many cases are there of Irish citizens committing fraud and never is there a suggestion that they lose their citizenship?

But we've a shower of geniuses on here who thinks it is a legitimate option to have two different types of punishment for the same crime with the determining factor being whether someone was granted citizenship or just awarded it at birth.

There was an item in the news last week about a property owner who tried to evict people squatting in a property. He too has been found guilty of fraud and other offences. I bet many of the people cheering him last week, are cheering the idea in the OP this week.

But no, no racism here.

Dante

100% should be stripped of his citizenship, jailed, then deported.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104622#Comment_118104622

Absolutely, there is a distinction!

If you are lucky enough to be awarded Irish Citizenship, that is more than just an honour! It's widely sought-after recognition - legal gold dust. If you then receive that citizenship and abuse it, you absolutely deserve to be crucified (figuratively) compared to the native citizen.

In fact, it takes a particularly disgusting kind of person to engage in this kind of crime.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104622#Comment_118104622

Irish people committing fraud, or breaking the law should be convicted accordingly, regardless of their wealth. Anyone who was awarded citizenship & who commits a crime (one strike for serious stuff, three strikes for minor stuff) should be ejected from this country, again regardless of their wealth. No ifs, no buts. Gone, bye bye.

Canis Lupus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104627#Comment_118104627

You shipping the jail back to Nigeria with him or what?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104651#Comment_118104651

Once someone is awarded citizenship, they're Irish.

Prosecute them as such but we also have laws about discrimination.

You can't hold a bigger threat over someone just by virtue of the fact that they were awarded citizenship.

There's literally laws against doing so.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103944#Comment_118103944

We are too welcoming and generous

Gatling

@Tell me how How many cases are there of Irish citizens committing fraud and never is there a suggestion that they lose their citizenship?

How many cases of people coming here for international protection and asylum lied repeatedly and scammed the system ,

90 % + ?

They came here for a better life of crimes and better rewards with little or no consequences for their actions from drugs , murder ,rape , people trafficking .why shouldn't they be deported , maybe its time we ban dual citizenship from Africa and elsewhere and no option to gain citizenship in the first place.

Let blame racism how original

Potential-Monke

Seems the problem so is we need to change our Citizenship policy. Maybe every "given" citizenship should come with the caveat that any major crime means revocation. Put a time limit on it if the bleeding hearts are too upset. 10 years. We should only be giving that to people who contribute and benefit Ireland.

Will never happen though.

2ndcoming

Pretty sure we all know or have in our own families people who have bled the state for money, houses and everything in between with extremely little chance of recompense to the taxpayer.

Can we deport them to Nigeria too?

I ask this because I have a strong feeling it would include about half of the posters on page 1 of this thread 😅

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103987#Comment_118103987

How does anyone get a free gaff? Anyway, as for revoking their citizenship, I think the only way that can happen is if it can be proved that the person gave false information on the application. You can't just be stripped of your citizenship if you commit a crime.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104031#Comment_118104031

Where do you deport an Irish citizen to?

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118104651#Comment_118104651

It doesn't work that way. All citizens are the same whether naturalized, born in country or citizend by sanguinis (blood right). A naturalized citizen is not less of a citizen than a born citizen, so get that idea out of your head.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105086#Comment_118105086

Don't know where you pulled the 90+% figure from.

Only about 20% of asylum applications are approved.

hustlenbustle

20percent might be approved but those rejected dont tend to leave. These two really are no addition to any country and should be sent back. The suggestion made of once made a citizen/ given asylum and being told that within a certain amount of time if u commit a crime you're deported is a good one. It would remove these two.

Peregrinus

Ireland is a republic with a constitutional guarantee of equality before the law. It is fundamentally repugnant to this notion to suggest that there should be two classes of citizen, one whose citizenship can be revoked if they fail to display proper civic virtues and another whose citizenship cannot be revoked in similar circumstances. Other countries may choose have first- and second-class citizens, but we should not.