Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Black History Month Ireland, why?

1234689

Comments

  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Malcolm X, demanding the black american community take a hard look at themselves first, make changes, equal and exceed others, then get treated equally. A black American Nationalist movement that sought to find solutions from themselves to their own problems, rather than blame everybody else. I can see why You prefer Malcolm and also why he never got the same attention as Martin



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    And still none of that post would or could have come seeping from right wing Yanks. It's incredibly Irish specific.

    Disagree, the terminology that is used with anything race related is clear. Not sure we should be considering here social media but the links a certain element share when it comes to race discussions shows exactly where they're getting their info.

    LatinX? 😂 Ah man you've totally swallowed the right on American stuff, just as much as the Right wingers swallowed their own brand of US nonsense. You will only find Latinx on the most right on and on point naratives because apparently it's not cisgender or somesuch ballsology. Bugger all Latinos, or Latinas for that matter would use it. For a start it sounds really bloody awkward en Espanol. It's a completely makey uppey word by US college social studies types.

    Not sure why you're getting tied up on what we could name a potential Central and South American Month. I'll leave you to name it.

    I see what you did there. Man, could you be any more obvious? I made no comment on the content of the post, didn't thank it and only referenced it as an example you brought up. For the record I found it overly simplistic and one sided. However if we truly wanted to discuss Black history in Ireland in recent years; leaving out the jui soli loophole, the sudden influx of "asylum seekers" often with remarkable fecundity in a fair few and the fact that the vast majority would be rejected for residency if they had applied in the last ten years would be a tad disingenuous. Indeed it would be rewriting history. Not just African folks either, Georgia and Albania would be in that mix too and last time I looked they're White. Indeed the first law case that made the news on this loophole was a Chinese woman. When Leo Varadkar mentioned this in relation to recent rejections of bogus asylum seekers he name checked the latter two, but studiously avoided the first in the list. That which must not be spoken off apparently.

    All I did was point out how you ignored blatant racism by a poster and instead choosing to repeatedly correct my semantics - it wasn't anything but obvious, as I am always intrigued by posters who take that approach.

    Agreed. Nobody, Black, White or whatever you're having yourself, really gives a damn and it's more for minor political currency, photo ops, RTE to throw in a tokenism here and there and for the bunch of vested overlapping interest NGO's to look relevant.

    Mostly agree, though I would add I am sure there are a few openminded people learned something new and it his also been some good red meat for those who are forever outraged by anything associated with the black community (as seen here).



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    He was far too scary for many, MLK is much easier to sweep away his more 'controversial' elements - leads many to be unaware of them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's unreal. The average Chinese person doesn't know anything. It's such a shame because Chinese people raised and living in the West tend to do quite well.

    They know their provincial history and culture better than any other nationality I've encountered. They also still have the ability to know their complete family lineage going back centuries, which few westerners could manage to do. Most of my students will still have a solid connection to their national culture, knowing the words to all the songs, being able to repeat the stories in both modern and traditional Chinese, along with their local dialect.

    TBH I'd consider Chinese people, on average, to be more practical than modern Irish people. In many ways they remind me of my parents generation or my grandparents. Less interest in philosophy and more interest in what puts food on the table.

    There's a lot of downsides to Chinese culture and modern Chinese society.. don't get me wrong.. there are serious problems from bullying, abusive personalities, to the focus on examinations so students learn for the exam, and forget everything the next day. Yes, there are problems, but there are a crapton of positives too. China is one of those places where extremes rule, and most of them have opposites present depending on which province you're in, or whether you're talking about girls vs boys, or whatever.

    You seem to have a rather negative impression of Chinese people... where and what did you study?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Ah the paragraph where you weren't sure what I meant so jumped to a conclusion and claimed they were opinions rather than facts...

    You also missed my sarcasm in my last post - I wouldn't be up my arse enough to expect people to waste time digging through other threads for 'evidence' 😂

    I'll leave you to your blinkered world where boards isn't a complete sewer for racial ignorance, most of the time completely willful ignorance.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MLK became the acceptable Black face for White middle America. He pandered to their sense of charity and patronisation and the BS of "colour blindness" with admittedly pretty speeches. Malcolm didn't and couldn't. Plus Malcolm evolved massively in his short life. From a bloody harsh background never mind being Black in Jim Crow America, turning to crime, ending up in gaol, then becoming a self educated widely read man who turned his life completely around. He came to conclusions, sometimes from external influencers yes, but would always question those conclusions and come to his own in time. A sure sign of an actual thinker. A rare enough commodity. You could see that with his connection to Islam. Starts off as a Nation of Islam* adherent who goes to the top levels there, questions that and after he decided to dig deeper and go to Mecca and fully changed his position. Ditto after meeting various White revolutionaries and aid workers in his trips across the world, he rethought and acknowledged his own prejudices. Malcolm X was a far more rounded and complex and intelligent man than MLK ever was in my humble. Now he was a ginger too, but nobody's perfect. 😁



    *a wacky American sect, from a nation that was founded by them and remains full of them. It's only got a passing resemblance to Islam and handily forgets the part that Muslim slavers played long before and long after the trade that carried them to America. It's easy to be derisory about it, but this was pre these interwebs days when we're all armchair experts after a quick google and it did give a lot of urban Black men and women a sense of pride, community and purpose and more a sense of pride community and purpose beyond and without Whitey in the mix. They weren't looking for scraps from the oppressors table, they were looking to build their own table and eat their own food on their own terms.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Dr Hart argued that there was about 1,000-10,000 Africans in Ireland in the later half of the 18th cen but it is very hard to know. Basically he found 160 mentions in papers of  'blackamoors', 'negro blacks', or simply 'blacks between 1750-99. He then estimates the records would only mention 1 in 10 to 60, but there are a few problems, some of these people might be the same individuals counted twice and we have no idea what 160 mentions means or how to estimate a population from that. But fair play to him for doing the work and writing this paper. Hopefully this will be detected on sites like 23andMe.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    He did an awful lot of extrapolation, to the point where his hypothesis is essentially worthless beyond a passing fancy that makes for a small headline. There have been a few genetic studies of the Irish population. There was from UCD iirc a few years back and that found the Irish population was pretty, even remarkably generic by European standards, with some Viking/English in the East and Scots in the North. No mention of African found in the mix. In similar studies in the UK they find ancient Britons, Vikings, Saxons, even traces of Roman and yep some later African genes too. Which makes sense. Britain was invaded more times and had more back and forth with the closer continent and was wealthier with a larger population density than Ireland. By the Industrial revolution it was an economic powerhouse which tends to attract more and more people from outside.

    Ireland by contrast outside of Belfast and the building of canals and later railways(but not at the same density as England )pretty much had no industrial revolution to speak of. For a start it didn't have much coal or iron, the fuels of the new age. It had food and textiles and that was about the biggest export through the ports. I could certainly see Black sailors and merchants showing up from time to time in ports like Cork, Dublin and Waterford, or Black servants which was the "in thing" in the 18th century for the well heeled, but people actually living here in those kind of numbers? I'm not seeing it. Never mind that they appear to have pretty much vanished by the 20th century.

    Consider another diaspora that did and do still live here and had influence and impact on Irish history and were recorded as such*; Irish Jews. There were significantly more Jews in England than in Ireland and for the above same reasons.



    *going on memory here; there were a couple of lads, merchant types, who showed up to some Irish royal or other in the 11th century, probably got the bum's rush and fecked off, then not much recorded for a while, then a Jewish lad gets elected as mayor of Cobh in the 1500s. Interesting one that. There would have been vanishingly few places in Europe that would have elected a Jewish mayor back then. Even these days might be a stretch in some places. The involvement with politics seems to have become a thing with the Jewish Irish and there are a fair few examples from then on.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,507 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    How earlier? I don't remember anyone in this country ever referring to Japan as a manufacturer of cheap goods in such a manner. It was always a jibe at China or Taiwan who have a long history of selling cheap tat to the west, especially in the form of toys and trinkets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,507 ✭✭✭✭Esel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That's Americans.

    Plus, how old are you that you "...remember a time when made in Japan was a way of saying 'cheap and shoddy'"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,507 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    We got the same shíte toys etc. here. Just because you never heard the phrase in that context does not mean it was not used here.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll leave you to your blinkered world where boards isn't a complete sewer for racial ignorance, most of the time completely willful ignorance.

    Ahh well, I don't think boards is such a sewer of racist opinions/beliefs. It's the internet. Different opinions exist, and most of them aren't truly racist, but designed to get a rise out of someone, or simply the definition of what racism includes has been expanded so much by American culture to include just about any negative observation or criticism. Regardless of whether it's based in fact or not.

    Although I would point out that your statement above works both ways. There are a lot of posters who seem to believe that Black (or insert disadvantaged racial group) can't do any wrong, can't ever be held responsible even slightly for their present circumstances, and will flat out refuse to recognise the racism that goes on by that group towards others. These same posters seem to have embraced some kind of masochistic self-hate of the white race, going out of their way to express their thoughts on how white people are some kind of scourge to all those innocent preferred racial groups. Just as these same posters will claim some amazing and inslightful superior knowledge that can't be measured because they dodge and deflect whenever asked to clarify their observations.

    So... yeah.. there's all kinds of posters on boards. Gosh. Isn't it great! Not the echo chamber you can find on American forums, or other forms of social media.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dunno much about Malcolm X... is the movie reasonably accurate? (It is a brilliant movie)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Ok and we're going more than a little off piste here... I was an ickle baby when the Beatles were still a band, Elvis was still skinny and Neil and Buzz bounced about on the moon, so going back a fair while. My abiding memory, a 70's one to be fair, was that Made in Japan was pretty good, Made in Germany was very good, Made in the USA was rare enough, but the lowest by a Hector Greys(showing my age) was Made in Hong Kong. Made in Taiwan similarly. That was the cheap tat. Made in China from my memory was low on the list of recognisable stuff at all. TBH my general memory is that Made in China only really took hold in the 90's?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Oh I know of it as a post war racist hangover for Americans. And during the war Zippo used an advert saying "Don't flip the wick of some Jap crap". There was lots of racist anti Japanese sentiment floating around in that part of the world. But I would be surprised if it was ever used here, in Ireland, as a pejorative.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    "Made in Japan" was never a sign of dodgy goods here in Ireland and by the 70's/80's every Tom, Dick and Harry was driving around in a Datsun or a Toyota, or watching a Sharp TV or watching a Sony video...and I remember the tat that Hector Greys sold very well. I had plenty of toy guns bought from there a lot of which had "Made in China" or "Made in Taiwan" stamped on the side.

    The Japanese always had a good name, especially as far as electronic goods were concerned.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Japan, as part of their initial economic recovery, went the way of cheap manufacturing goods, and gradually moved into high quality products. Most of their manufacturing centers were originally created to produce cheap products to sell to S.Korea and similar emerging markets in Asia and Africa. They upgraded to car manufacturing and then better quality products to take advantage of the US's own decline in manufacturing of similar product lines.

    The foundation for Japan being held up as a leader in management theory was started around the same time as their switch to higher quality products, but many of the Japanese theorists had worked for both type of companies, which is why their theories appealed so much in America, who had both kinds of product manufacturing lines.

    S.Korea went the same way, initially focused on low quality manufacturing and switching to the more expensive products once the framework was in place... China has tried to remain involved in both kinds of manufacturing, but that's more to do with the costs involved in upgrading such a wide network and educating such a large workforce effectively. Which they've mostly failed to do except in some industries.

    So, yeah.. in the 50s/60s Japan would have had a rep for shoddy products. (depended on the industry.. as has been said their electronics were always considered top quality)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well that's what I heard 60's early 70's. It changed as the 70's went on but Datsuns were not highly regarded at all pre mid 70's. Tinny rust prone too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭archfi


    Same here.

    I can't remeber Made in Japan being considered tat. 70s onwards anyways

    Made in China was extremely rare, if it existed at all

    Hong Kong and Taiwan were the cheap tatty ones.

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Surely the fact that the people being celebrated were/are Irish is more relevant than their skin colour.

    Pointing out their "difference" is just saying they're "not really" Irish.

    Anything that draws attention to frankly unimportant issues like skin colour (we're all equal in the eyes of any rational person) isn't a worthwhile endeavor and the knots some people tie themselves into defending this as a concept never ceases to amaze.

    Glazers Out!



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    With anything like that they have to edit and simplify, but it's pretty accurate.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If we are all equal, then there are fewer crusades to follow, and agendas to fight for. Less reasons to feel special for something someone is born into, too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Holding a view that black culture is negative is not the same as saying we are all equal how do you marry these two beliefs you have?



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not all well intentioned ideas are good in practice. Identity politics can --and often does-- end in disillusionment, disunity and ultimately, segregation... segregation enforced by those who steal the thunder of people that actually fought against segregation and institutional and legalistic racism.

    IMO, Identity politics is for kids and underdeveloped adults who think in oversimplistic categories because they lack the intelligence/experience to know that no two people are alike. Granted, it is less taxing to think in general terms using categories like 'black' 'white' 'latino' 'muslim' etc. but it is incredibly vulgar and massively dehumanizing.

    Separately, RTE website content such as their 'Climate' section and 'Black History Month' isn't aimed at adults. It is aimed at children. It's silly to get overly annoyed by it, just as it is silly to get over exerted about Greta Thunberg (similarly, her spiel is aimed at kids, not at adults).

    Apropos of feck all, It isn't just Ireland that has absorbed irrelevant US discourse around race. A lot of Africans have absorbed US culture too! This has a lot to do with our entrapment in the Anglospherical language bubble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭SnazzyPig




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    A glance at the weekly headlines will tell you that a certain ethnic minority I'm not allowed to name have that market cornered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    Won’t be long now until RTÉ are producing documentaries with a black lad with dreadlocks defending the GPO from the British.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Welcome to inclusive history, yeah we know who was and who wasn't there but that won't stop people telling us that there should be adding others to make them feel included in Irish history ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    In Ireland? I dunno.

    Were we even that big a consumer of Japanese goods in the post war period?

    In America for sure there was a lot of anti Japanese sentiment both before, during and after the war. But here? I'd be hard pressed to even name a single commodity that would have been sold regularly in Ireland that was made in Japan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    It's bollo5ksology of the highest order and my licence fee going towards this carp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭donaghs


    MLK was idealistic, but also pragmatic and mostly moderate about how to achieve his goals. He understood that African-Americans were less than 12% of the US population (at the time), and that the best outcome for them was to achieve equality in the US, alongside all other Americans. He knew that to do this, he couldnt simply get on a public platform and start making angry demands. He might be right, be he wouldn't get anywhere. Instead he built up a coalition of all kinds of Americans. He explained in moderate language what the injustices facing African-Americans were, convinced the majority of righteousness and the urgency of his cause. And the created a path the remedy these issues. What does he have to show for his efforts? All the civil rights legislation of the 1960s.

    Its true that he's less exciting than Malcolm X. But what are criteria for greatness here?

    Malcolm X entered public life after joining the Nation of Islam. Still a rather odd group. They have a racist founding belief that the original people of the world were created "black". But that a black scientist Yacub who lived 6,600 years ago began the creation of the white race/white people. He is said to have done this through a form of selective breeding referred to as "grafting". The brutal conditions of their creation explains the inherent evil of "white" people. During most of his time with the Nation, Malcolm X preached this doctrine of Black Supremacy, "white devils" etc.

    The Nation believes we are living in "end times", and they will be rescued by a Mothership when the Apocalypse happens.

    What we know of as the "civil rights" movement was hugely involved in restoring and protecting the voting rights of African-Americans, but the Nation forbade its members from voting.

    They preached self-sufficiency and being "separate". In 1961, the Nation invited the leadership of the American Nazi Party to one of their rallies. The idea was that Nazis and Black Muslims could be allies since they both sought the same goal—separation of the races. At this rally, Malcolm delivered a talk entitled “Separation or Death”. “Muslims are not for integration and not for segregation, Separation!”. The Nation met with the KKK for the same reason around that time.

    George Lincoln Rockwell and members of the American Nazi Party attend a Nation of Islam summit, 1961 - Rare Historical Photos

    Around 1963 Malcolm became disillusioned with the Nation. He could see its divergence from mainstream Sunni Islam. He became aware of its leaders (elijah muhammed) affairs with young women, etc, etc. in 1964 broke with the Nation, and advised African Americans to vote, he moved towards sunni islam. He made a pilgrimage to Mecca, seeing Muslims of "all colors, from blue-eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans," interacting as equals led him to see Islam as a means by which racial problems could be overcome. Then in Feb 1965, he was assasinated. Most likely by the Nation of Islam.

    So what did he achieve? Promoting a message of "empowerment" perhaps. But he was dead two years after having a massive change of direction on so many issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,761 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Malcolm X entered public life after joining the Nation of Islam. Still a rather odd group

    Odd is being kind D. 😁 Black scientology would be closer.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That's about right. It was mainly Japanese tin toys and similar knick nacks, a few small tinny transistor radios too. I knew people that for years wouldn't touch a 'Jap' car.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Unsurprisingly, I'd argue the complete opposite. Trying to ignore differences, like race by claiming to 'not see colour', is the much more simplistic and childish way of looking at the world.

    It is really the type of comment you expect from an insulated child, who hasn’t seen the world outside of their safe bubble. Even in the extremely unlikely situation where you truly see everyone as equal, the perspective only holds up if you again take the childlike view that everyone else in the world sees things the same as you and also doesn’t see and act on differences – which we know for a fact isn’t true due to the many examples of racism, sexism etc. 

    By trying to push your narrative you ignore the experiences of those who have and are treated negatively due to their differences, in the case of race where these negative impacts can be seen generation after generation. The view also shows the lack of self awareness and arrogance seen in a lot of teenagers who are repulsed when it is pointed out that maybe they were put in a position where it was easier for them to succeed than others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    This strawman gets trotted out over and over on these threads, I haven't seen one poster who believes this:

    There are a lot of posters who seem to believe that Black (or insert disadvantaged racial group) can't do any wrong, can't ever be held responsible even slightly for their present circumstances, and will flat out refuse to recognise the racism that goes on by that group towards others.

    Don't worry I won't send you into another tailspin by repeating your own tactic of requesting multiple examples 😂

    Time and again in these threads examples of elements of those communities doing something bad and every time I've seen posters say 'they should be charged' or the like. Ironically, it is usually those who consistently complain about these minority communities who end up twisting themselves in knots trying to defend those who break the law, like the many, many instances of cops breaking the law caught on tape and even after they are found guilty in court.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    A bizarre misconstrual of my post. I said nothing about trying to ignore differences. In fact, by claiming primacy for the individual (and not for the group identity) I am arguing that we pay more attention.. to the details --the important details mind, not skin colour, astrological sign or curliness of hair-- that makes a person an individual and pay less attention to practically meaningless categories such as 'black people' or 'white people.' Neither did I say anything about equality. It's the categorization of huge groups of people under over simplistic banners that I object to.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This strawman gets trotted out over and over on these threads, I haven't seen one poster who believes this

    Oddly enough I don't care all that much as you made claims about the rampant ignorance of posters on the thread and nothing came of it beyond your repeated belief. That you haven't seen or have seen something doesn't change my opinion even slightly.

    Don't worry I won't send you into another tailspin by repeating your own tactic of requesting multiple examples

    Except I didn't make any accusations about posters on the thread. I responded to your own general observation with one of my own. Hence my quoting you, and responding directly to what I quoted. You really should try it sometime.. sticking to the quoted piece as a solid basis for a response.

    Time and again in these threads examples of elements of those communities doing something bad and every time I've seen posters say 'they should be charged' or the like. Ironically, it is usually those who consistently complain about these minority communities who end up twisting themselves in knots trying to defend those who break the law, like the many, many instances of cops breaking the law caught on tape and even after they are found guilty in court.

    How wonderfully irrelevant to what I said, or the context of my response to you. Still, that's hardly a surprise considering the manner of your previous responses to me.

    Look. I'm done chasing you around in circles because there is absolutely no value in doing so. Won't be doing it anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    The fact that you seem to believe your post has nothing to do with equality is very telling. Nearly all evidence says that race isn't 'practically meaningless' in the outcomes for generations of people across the world.

    Again, even if you truly only pay attention to the individual for your approach to work you have to take the sheltered, childish opinion that everyone sees the world and acts as you do - which they clearly do not. There is no way to deal with racism today, ignoring historical racism impacting people today, by looking at each individual, all you're giving yourself is an excuse to put your head in the sand to the facts of the world we are living.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    In your previous post you said:

    "There are a lot posters...

    And when I called you out on it you now claim:

    "I didn't make any accusations against posters..."

    🤣

    Refuting the allegation in your post and pointing out the irony that you have it completely backwards and it is actually those who love to pick on minority communities here that are usually the culprits of defending the criminals is very relevant.

    Glad you're done chasing as you've tied yourself in a laughable knot here.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Your thinking seems a bit tangled here. Discriminatory laws, such as apartheid, are put in place when the powers that be emphasize vulgar differences such as race, instead of treating people as individuals and on the basis of important (not trivial) qualities.

    The only thing more absurd and offensive is people who give their individuality away by thinking of themselves in childish, oversimplistic categories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Nope, not tangled at all. I live in the real world, while you seem to believe that once you get past overt laws that are discriminatory, like apartheid, there is an end of racism and you can ignore trends and just look at individuals - which is far more of a childish view than anything you called out other for earlier.

    Yes, there was/are some clearly racist laws but racism goes far beyond that - pretending racism doesn't exist when those overt laws do not exit is living in a simplistic childlike fantasy land, where your claim to care for individuals trumps human nature.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Extremely tangled. Like an army of straw men trying to conquer a distant windmill.

    Who is pretending racism doesn't exist? Racism is born out of exactly your type of fixation on superficial qualities. This is the common ground you share with racists. Well done. :)

    You also seem to be proposing that racist thinking is combatted by racist thinking. However well intentioned, however comprehensible, it's vulgar in the extreme. I'll stick to using people's names and treating them as individuals and you keep subsuming and gathering individuals on the basis of whatever superficial quality you deem sufficient.

    ooh wait. The 'real world' argument. Dang it. You must be right :D



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    How do you believe race is 'practically meaningless' while also seeing racism existing? Race is either meaningful in how people are treated and unfortunately racism exists or it race is meaningless and people do not experience racism.

    You seem to love the word 'vulgar' and a good example is someone trying to sound intellectual and announcing to people who experience racism that race is 'practically meaningless' them.

    As it seems surprising to you - yes, I am proposing tackling racism by supporting those who experience racism. If you aren't pretending racism doesn't exist, you're going about solving it in a the most futile fashion by trying to assess and support people who aren't in a position to be discriminated against due to race.

    Your posts stink of the childish 'what about me, give me attention too' mentality that brought us the All Lives Matter nonsense.



Advertisement