Complications with lifelong family friends...

penovine

So, this is a long story,.. will try make it short..

My family home is no longer but I still go home to where I am from, from time to time and for the last 6 yrs I have been staying with my neighbours/friends (they are a brother and sister). Before Covid this would have been about 4 times/year.. 1 or 2 nights at a time.

During the restrictions we talked on the phone all the time.. always messaging/calling each other..

But in the last 4 months I have stayed with them on 4 diff occasions.. 1-2 nights at a time.

I always bring them something.. sweets, biscuits, wine, vouchers for supermarket or buy them Chinese, thank you cards, candles etc.. various things over the years. I always bring my own food.. and wash our dishes etc,..

Our families have been friends for generations.. grandparents, parents, (helped one another out with farm work etc) siblings who grew up together - have always felt like we wer all more like sisters and brothers as oppose to just neighbour friends..

Its not just a place to stay - I love MOD EDIT - REMOVED REAL NAME like a sister.. missed them terribly during the restrictions...

Last time I stayed with them was about 2 weeks ago for 1 night..

I asked if I could stay again in a few weeks time and long story short she said no.. that she feels I have taken them for granted... I was flabbergasted by this and told her how much I appreciate and love them.. and how I always brought things and gave them cards and continually told them how much I appreciated them having me stay etc.. then I asked "should I have given you money?" she said "well, it would not have gone astray!"..

I was totally gobsmacked by this.. it would never have dawned on me to give them money... I use to think I went overboard with my thanking them.. but it seems it was not enough... money talks I guess.. I am hurt that they think I took them for granted... cos I really love them..

I feel a great loss now - and its not about having a place to stay.. I feel I have lost a great friend.. a dear family friend.. a connection to my home place/generations of family - now broken (and I do not have a lot of connections to home anymore {a lot of family gone or moved on})..

Should I have been giving them money? Was this naive of me? It would never have dawned on me to give them money.. like I know we are not family but friends thru generations... to me it was about seeing them too - not just a place to stay - I guess they don't love me as much as I love them?.. I guess I was an inconvenience?..

Thoughts?

PS they have a lot of stress in their lives at the minute..

Thanks for reading

FutureGuy

The second-last line should have been one of your first lines.

pc7

Oh that's very tough, but honestly, we have a saying in this house 'we don't do visitors', meaning over night ones! We've seen it with family members who used to come from UK and stay with my parents, while they were family and loved them its a huge amount of work having someone stay over. Alright if once in a blue moon but a bit like yourself it turned into a few times a year. It can be a real imposition, gifts or no. We entertained a lot (pre covid) but it is nice when the dinner party/party is over to shut the door and sit down in your own home, if someone staying its just not the same.

Perhaps leave it a few weeks and give them a buzz, you acknowledge they've a lot going on at the minute.

seamus

As above, if they have a lot of stress in their lives at the moment, then that's likely colouring their response.

But at the same time, the fact that they are going through a stressful time and you still asked if you could stay over, suggests that to a certain extent you're tone deaf to what is going on in their lives. And they might just feel a little bit like you treat their house like a hotel.

If you were going through a stressful time in your life and a family member rang up asking if they could stay overnight because they were visiting the area, you'd also feel a bit annoyed. If they were doing it a few times a year, you would probably also start to say "enough is enough". It would be different if you were coming down to visit them, but it sounds more like you come down to visit the area and use their house as a B&B.

Really, if you knew things were difficult for them at the moment maybe you should have considered finding somewhere else to stay rather than becoming another burden on them. I know you say you're not an inconvenience while you're there, but you are. A visitor is always an inconvenience one way or another. And most people are happy for it every now and again for the benefit of that person's company. But when it becomes a regular thing, the inconvenience begins to outweigh the benefits.

You also give no indication as to whether there's any reciprocation. I'm not talking gifts or cards or flowers, or even money. All of that just makes it even more into a hotel-like situation. I'm talking about offering up your spare room for them to visit you. Offering to come down for a week to help them out with some DIY or child minding or dog-sitting, or whatever.

Don't consider this is a long friendship broken. If them not offering to put you up in their house anymore means that you no longer consider them to be friends, then it suggests that maybe you don't really consider them to be much more than a hotel?

Food for thought.

Talk to her again with the intention to make amends. Try to understand their point of view without trying to defend yours.

hawley

So you've stayed with them on four occasions in the last four months. That's utterly ridiculous; you really are overdoing it. You put them in an invidious position. It must have been difficult for her to tell you not to come, but hopefully you can remain friends. You need to organize alternate accommodation in future.

bucketybuck

I doubt they really want money, they just think you are there too often and it is a hard topic to talk about. Remember that you brought up the money, not them.

I think of that old saying, "How can I miss you if you won't go away". It does sound like you have strayed into that territory, 4 times in 4 months and asking again for number 5 would definitely be taking the piss if it was one of my friends.

Depends on the ages involved to some extent as well. People in their 20's may not mind so much, but older people definitely value their privacy and personal space a hell of a lot more.

tara73

agree wit the other posters. what's causing them stress anyway ? Is it money issues, some of them lost their job by chance? Would explain why they have enough of a visitor who is using them as a free b&B. might have been ok for them when it was just 4 times a year, without stress in their lifes, but now 4 times in 4 month, with stress in their life whichever nature it's understandable they are not happy with the setup anymore.

If I were you, I would apologise immediately and let them know you'll pay them retrospectively for your visits the last years. ask for a bank connection to tranfer it or if they prefer cash.

Sorry, but from your post it still sounds like you are only seeing yourself in this situation and how they could hurt you like this, daring to expect money. But even life long friends have their own feelings (and stress in their lifes) and you need to accept that they are not selflessly there to fulfill your expectations.

tara73

I read your post again, and as all is still valid what's been said, I see something else in all of this: Are you very lonely? You obviously don't have family there anymore, but it was your home(town). Could it be, deep inside you wish these couple to substitute real relatives, maybe even as far as a mum and dad? I think there's something at play here like this which makes it all very sad and is explaining why it never occured to you you could be an 'inconvenience' and the last thing you would give a mum or dad (and the last thing mum and dad would expect) would be money if you visit them. they would be just happy, the more you visit, the better.

maybe you don't even admit this to yourself but might it be the case?

Dial Hard

I have to agree with everyone else, OP: gifts, cards, expressions of love (which might have been a bit much, tbh) aside, anyone inviting themselves for overnight stays once a month is imposing, no matter how thoughtful a guest they might be. I think you (unwittingly, to be fair) made a nuisance of yourself and your friend's reaction to you asking could you stay over yet again was a reflexive response borne of her desperately needing some space from you. Added to that the fact that you acknowledge they are going through a stressful time... well, I think you're in a situation of your own making here, tbh.

I don't think for a second they actually want any money off you and I don't think this has to be a friendship-ending drama - I think you need to just apologise for putting them in an awkward position, give them some space, and then attempt to move forward with the friendship on a different basis than you were used to, i.e. no more assuming there's a bed for you there whenever you want it.

partyguinness

I have to ask OP..what age are you..I am going to assume you are well into adulthood so in the sense are you not a bit old to be crashing on neighbours couches/spare bedrooms a few times a year?

TBH it sounds like you have outstayed your welcome. It is not beyond repair but next time book a B&B or something and take them out for a meal.

gmisk

Errr you have been using them like a hotel....kind of bizarre.

Once or twice a year grand....maybe.

But four times in four months for a day or two at a time?!? Come on.

Take the hint, some great advice already on thread.

Baybay

OP, in all friendships things can get a little strained at times so I don’t think your friendship is over. I’d say that is your call. But it is also your friend’s call to say enough. For now or forever may have to be determined.

I enjoy having visitors, for coffee, for dinner, for the weekend but I don’t want them to see them every day or even every weekend & I’m always just as happy to see them go as I was to see them arrive.

You feel hurt & that’s ok. Your friend has clearly felt something akin to hurt with the frequency of your visits or the taking for granted or whatever. All of that is ok.

I think it’d be a pity to throw away all that history over this, whether or not I understand it or whether or not it’d be for me. It’s important to you so arrange a visit, don’t stay over & chat about the expectation on both sides.

JimmyVik

If you come to stay with me you do it because I invited you.

You sound like you have been inviting yourself and then ask them do they want money when they say they have had enough.

The "it wouldnt have gone astray" when you brought up giving them money just sounds to me them trying to get across to you "Well you treated us like a hotel".

partyguinness

OP...the next move is up to you. Personally if had acted in a tone deaf manner (TBF you didnt do it on purpose or maliciously), I would make light of it very quick to get over it. You mentioned that you see them a few times a year. Rather than letting this simmer for the next few months I would make a special effort to back home, stay in a B&B/hotel whatever it takes. Severe danger that if you let things the way they are for a few months you might do some terminal damage to the friendship.

Take them out for drinks whatever- laugh it off, make light of it while empahasising you have taken the hint but at least you get to go back to separate houses that night.

Of course you have taken it personally but you need to step back and probably accept in the cold light of day that perhaps you have gone a tad too far. Accept it and make amends.

Hannibal_Smith

money talks I guess

Thats a bit unfair OP. It sounds like something that grew legs as the years went on. You saw it as a place to stay, they didn't but didn't know how to say it to you.

I don't see a need to end the friendship. They're not obliged to keep a space for you as and when you need it and you're not entitled to have a place there. It was extremely kind of them to do it for you for the last six years.

I wouldn't consider the friendship ended and I wouldn't offer money at this stage. But I would just put another call in and apologise for taking it for granted that you could stay there as and when you want, it was a misunderstanding and taking them for granted was not your intention. If they're stressed out at the moment, ask them if there's anything you can do to help.

penovine

hi thanks for all the replies and some food for thought there for sure.. however...

I did not know that they wer under stress... she only told me at the time of said conversation..

@dialhead why wer the gifts too much? We are life long family friends - have been giving one another gifts since ever,..

@tara73 no I don't see them as parent's - i am younger than the brother for starters.. but I do see them as v close family friends which they are.. but perhaps I see them as being more important than they see me which I am realising now..

@JimmyVik with regards to the money.. I basically verbalised what she was getting at.. like I said.. had never dawned on me..

@partyguinness I actually took them out for dinner in Sept and bought them take out in Aug..

The fact that I have stayed with them 4 times in the last 4 mths is due to unforeseen circumstances.. out of the norm..

But at the end of the day, I overstayed my welcome - and the fact that they are stressed at the mo is obv a factor - I did not know about this..

I wish she hadda said to me months ago.. listen, now is not a good time.. we have a lot going on.. I wudda totally understood..

But its the money thing that has throw me off - if I had given them money, would that have been ok? Should I have given them money?

I have NO problem staying in a B&B - I didn't think it a prob to stay with them - thought the friendship was mutual.. like I said - we talked on the phone all the time during the restrictions..

As it stands, we are friends.. she said they are under pressure - and I said I am sorry they felt I took them for granted.. sorry if I have been an inconvenience etc..

But I would love clarification on the money thing but not gonna ask obv..

thoughts?

In any event, I am thinking of sending them a voucher for the supermarket they use.. (though I always brought my own food - but just to show my appreciation,.. I would not be comfortable to give them money.. ).. but I am unsure what to do at this stage - dunno how they will feel about that.. not sure what to think.. i wish they hadda said something before now.. its the money thing that bothers me.. i would hate to think that they thought me sponging off them... like I said, it wasn't just a place to stay.. I love them like family.. but guess they do not see me that way.. realising that now...

Still not clear on the relevance of € though..

JimmyVik

OP, you really need to sit back and think about this.

You have been inviting yourself to their house for years.

They didnt know how to say it to you to not do it anymore.

Then you bring up money and they try and deal with it with an off hand comment.

Now you talk about sending them a voucher like it really is a money issue. Its a being taken for granted issue if you ask me.

What you should do now is not ever invite yourself to stay again. And even if they invite you, do not, because they probably just feel guilty and dont want you to stay again really.

You should go back and stay in a B&B and invite them out and have a good time and apologize for inviting yourself before. They will probably want to make light of it and invite you again (in the way you say to people you met on holidays to come stay with you. You dont actually mean it and only Australians dont understand that and come to stay) say no thanks, i will arrange somewhere but we can meet up . Dont be trying to give them vouchers or payment for the past. It will just go down the wrong way.

Its just an awkward situation that can be unwound, but dont get back to the thing that caused the awkward situation by staying in their house again.

For example I love when my family come to stay with me for a day or two, but no way would I want them to stay more than once or twice a year and even then would not be impressed if they invited themselves. And its the same in the opposite direction. I wouldnt stay in theirs more than once or twice a year not matter how many times they invited me out of niceness.

penovine

oh I just remembered another thing she said.. @Hannibal_Smith @bucketybuck @dialhead .. seems € is v relevant.. when I said "but I always brought bickies, sweets, wine etc".. she said "what, a €6 box of bickies, big deal".. then I said about the Chinese,... oh and her brother was ill when I was there last (hurt his leg) and I gave him a get well card and a book... (just remembering other bits now).. so can you see how I am so confused by the mention of money?? She said I took them for granted.. but I didn't... always brought stuff to show my appreciation etc..

Granted, I realise now I over stayed my welcome but I was not to know... (as kids I went up to their house after school as my folks wer not always home for personal reasons).. I wish she hadda said something before it got to this but I am still addled about the money thing.. and yes it seems to be an issue for her

Big Bag of Chips

I would be willing to bet my house on it that they would never have accepted cash from you if you offered it at the time. But now, your friend is stressed and going through a tough time and gave a knee jerk response to your question.

You keep repeating that you love them like family but guess they don't feel the same about you. They probably do like you. A lot. But - you are more attached to them because they are in your home place. A place you are still obviously very much attached to, and your friends are the manifestation of that. You don't hold the same nostalgia for them, as they are still living in the same area. It doesn't mean they don't feel affection for you. But it is obviously different.

I think you just have to accept that you imposed. No matter how much you thanked them, or brought to them or offered them. This has been going on for 6 years, and the frequency has increased recently. Your friend obviously felt this was becoming more than an occasional visit.

Next time you visit your home area stay in a B&B. And ask your friends to meet you somewhere for dinner.

Hannibal_Smith

She could have been afraid to bring it up, until now when she's had enough.

A €6 box of chocolates/sweets/biccies and a Chinese is not the same as putting a roof over someone's head as and when they want. Also, buying her brother a get well card and a book is a nice gesture and if you're life long friends, it's something you might do regardless?

It sounds as if things got quite heated between you. And it would be a terrible shame to end a friendship like this when it can be easily fixed. I can't see how you can be anything but the one who should apologise.

Tork

I think you'd have ended up with much the same argument, no matter what presents you gave them. Though maybe it's worth mentioning that in my family, we mostly don't give each other boxes of biscuits and sweets at Christmas any more. Back in normal times, our office canteen would be awash with sweets and biscuits in January because colleagues wanted to get rid of them from their houses. They're not a present many people value, especially nowadays when you can buy them for a few euros at any time of the year. Anyway, that's just a side note. The greater point here is that you outstayed your welcome and it has blown up in this unfortunate way.

I agree that if you had offered money they'd have refused it and handed it back to you. Maybe a voucher might've worked better but I think they'd still have come to resent you staying so often. I get the impression that this may be a somewhat lopsided friendship and that you're more dependent on them because of your family circumstances. It might explain why you're talking so much about how you love them and various family members are like siblings to you. That's a lot closer than how most people would describe lifelong friends.

It would be a shame if you all fell out and I think it is something to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible. From now on, it would be better if you didn't stay with them but booked into a hotel or B&B locally. You'll be a lot more welcome if you just pop around to visit for a few hours and go again or meet them for a meal. There is no easy way to tell somebody that they've worn out their welcome and your friend may now have regrets about how this has turned out. If this friendship is repairable, she'll be all too eager to put this behind her once you apologise.

Big Bag of Chips

Forget the money thing. It's not the issue. The issue is you treated their family home as your own family home because you don't have a base yet want to still return regularly.

Your friend got pissed off. YOU mentioned money. She responded in anger. She feels totally taken for granted, and honestly I can see why. You don't seem to get it. You seem totally and utterly flummoxed as to how or why your presence could have ever been a problem for them. Playing in their house every day as kids is not the same thing as inviting yourself to stay every few weeks as adults. It's not even comparable.

I can only imagine that you felt somehow entitled to their house, their hospitality and their time. You now know that's not the case. I feel sorry for your friend. The last few times you stayed she must have been feeling like this but hosted you just the same. Making it a monthly thing was a step too far, and completely taking advantage. It's not your family home.

iffandonlyif

I haven’t read all the responses but most are taking the line that four stays in four months is excessive. While it may often be, I don’t think it’s necessarily so. From what OP says, she/he is very close with both and is a clean and considerate houseguest, staying for only a night or two. It seems more equivalent to a sister/brother staying over. And given they hadn’t seen each other during the lockdown, perhaps that frequency is understandable.

Now, evidently, it was felt to be excessive. But expecting money as compensation seems bizarre to me.

Okay, it was an honest mistake on your part. You didn't realise you were pushing boundaries.

So how do you mend it? Well, if I was in your shoes I'd apologise for any overstep and invite them out to a meal in a nice hotel/restaurant to say thank you for all the times they've hosted you.

There are probably airbnb's in the area you can look into for future stays.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059394#Comment_118059394

2 nights every month for the last 4 months is excessive tbh.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059394#Comment_118059394

This is one of those threads where the thoughts of the OP's friend would make for interesting reading. Everybody has their own definition of what "too much" is, along with their own boundaries. This all boils down to being a genuine misunderstanding and something that can hopefully be fixed. I think the money thing just became a lightning rod for the resentment that had built up.

Idle Passerby

You keep saying "she said I took her for granted but I didn't" . You did though. Landing yourself in someone else's house for overnight stays several times a year is an imposition no matter how good the friendship.

"But I bought biscuits and takeaway". It's a given you'd do those things when your putting them out, it's a standard gesture of thanks but it doesn't make up for depriving people of privacy in their own home on a frequently recurring basis.

To you the visits were a holiday, to them they are playing host to a friend who has totally overstepped the mark and hasn't the cop on to see they're making a total nuisance if themselves.

Your not a child going for sleepovers anymore. Stop being such a mooch and leave your friends to enjoy their own home in peace. Get your own accomodation in future and I'm sure they will be happy to see you.

I don't think she actually expects money from you, it sounds like she had just reached the end of her tether with how clueless you've been. I'm willing to bet that plenty of hints were missed before it blew up into an arguement.

You've stayed four times in the last four months and two weeks after your last visit you've already tried to book your next stay...

Come on, OP.

wrangler

We always stay in a nearby b and b or hotel if we visit someone, best all round. and we'd often go for a meal together rather than expect to be fed.

Never under a compliment then

Deeec

OP it's alot of work having someone coming to stay. Getting bed and room ready, cooking meals etc. In all honesty you should only be staying with them no more than twice a year. My guess is they would be very happy to see you then - it would make the visits more special. Also you should return the favour and invite them to stay with you. Also help out in the house when you visit - don't expect them to be your butler and maid for the stay.

Do you have any other family members. Do you look as these people as your family? Is there a specific reason why you have to visit the area so often.

Also do you mind me asking what age you all are?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059031#Comment_118059031

Jeez dude, forget about the bloody money. You brought up the money, not them, it is clear as day that the issue is not what flavour of biscuits you bought or how many take aways you paid for. That you keep going back to the money tells me that you don't quite get it at all.

Buying them a voucher now would probably just make things worse to be honest, because it would be a clear signal that you think the problem was that you didn't pay them.

They aren't a hotel that needs to be paid, they are a home that needs to be respected.