Independent ie article! Madness if you drive a ten year old plus car !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069353#Comment_118069353

This is an axle from a mid-00s car. Box steel that could crack in two anywhere along its length. Or crack just behind the wheel-hob which will leave your wheel at a 45-degree angle to the car. I wouldn't want that to happen to me on the M50, which is why if I had my way all old cars would be crushed or subject to full metallurgical testing.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072136#Comment_118072136

That's rolled steel, 5mm by the looks of it, Clio? Make a grand trailer for another 20 years, some very gullible people out there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072208#Comment_118072208

So if the chassis is so durable and reliable, why are there so many NCT structural failures? Why are replacement rear subframes necessary?

You the gullible one depending your life and those around you in 20 year old rust buckets.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072319#Comment_118072319

Again living in the past, bit of rust on a sill is structural failure, needs a plate welded on to pass, chassis welding went out with the MK2 Escort,

Good wee lemming, spending your whole life paying back finance,

Imagine thinking that some half interested NCT tester is able to randomly poke holes in your rust box and thinking that welding over it is a cure.

Ask yourself if the tester can pole holes in your car, how would it fare in a crash.

Get the bus if you can't afford to upgrade your car

You talk out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand the NCT test catches unsafe cars yet you don't trust an NCT tester to catch severely corroded vehicles. Which is it?

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072491#Comment_118072491

He doesn't think people should have a life without being beholden to some financial institution, buying new stuff is probably its only pleasure in life as any human over 3 years old would be obsolete in its world

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072455#Comment_118072455

Probably can afford it better than you but if it isn't broke it doesn't need fixing,

Dartz

Isn't it strange how the solution to the climate crisis is always to keep consuming, to keep buying the newest thing - rather than just keeping older **** running for longer?

That does seem counter-intuitive to me.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072556#Comment_118072556

No money in it for the cronies, whole Green agenda seems to involve buying lots of stuff and putting yourself in tens of thousands of debt, suppose having people dependant on their next paycheck keeps a submissive society,

elperello

This "new car buyer versus old car keeper stuff" is a bit of a circular argument.

We are all dependent on each other as every car has a life cycle with a value at each point along the way.

There is a few euro to be made every time a car changes ownership, needs servicing, requires spare parts etc.

Live and let live, if someone wants to spend their money on a new car that's ok and if someone wants to hang onto the one they have that's ok too.

Montage of Feck

But it's a ridiculous argument to say a twenty year old car which has tested yearly for the last ten years is a rusting death trap.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072661#Comment_118072661

Fanatical consumerism is a religion to some,

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I genuinely thought the article was behind a paywall. Is that it? Absolute and complete bollocks! I drive an older "proper" car as opposed to a brand new 40k econobox. Who funded the article, it has all the hallmarks of brown envelops for it.

Disgraceful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072661#Comment_118072661

What metallurgical testing do cars undergo every year? I hope you're not calling some fella poking with a screwdriver a 'test'?

E36Ross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072319#Comment_118072319

My daily is not far off 28 years old now....... Pretty sure its looked after a bit more than Mary buying a new Yaris and not having a look at the tyres or brakes until its first NCT 4 years later.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083026#Comment_118083026

What testing have you done on the steel structure of the back axle to ensure it does not snap at the wheel hub for example?

What method did you use to check for any fatigue fracturing?

Atlantic Dawn

The same clown in his most recent review said he would buy a new diesel car...

So would I buy it? Yes for the space, the height, the diesel, and the excellent cabin, the cabin.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/why-citroen-c4-diesel-could-well-be-one-for-the-long-haul-40976447.html

E36Ross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083041#Comment_118083041

How many axles have you suddenly seen to snap?

My rear axle is one unit with my differential and half shafts inside it, it ain't snapping. 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083113#Comment_118083113

So you haven't tested it and your flying along on a wing and a prayer. Just like I thought.

It just takes one snapped axle to end your life or another's.

I know of a couple of cars where the axle snapped or where the front torret holding the front shock collapsed in on itself.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083170#Comment_118083170

I had the front torret snap. Thank god it did so at a glacial pace, reversing out of car park space. A few hundred metres from home!

E36Ross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083170#Comment_118083170

You genuinely have to be trolling?

7 hail Mary's and thats only to get it started in the mornings. 👍

As for a suspension turret collapsing IN.... How does that happen when a shock is putting upward force on it?

Have you any actual mechanical knowledge or just half make up random **** and go on a rant about it?

An Ri rua

All of my bangernomics have snapped their axles.

When the second axle snaps, I usually give in and buy another car. So I get about a month out of them and 1-3wks per axle.

I'm on my 3rd wife. The first 2, God rest them, dodgy seatbelts and then finished off by the flying axle.

It's ironic, as they both had premonitions they'd die by turret. But no.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083253#Comment_118083253

See, you have absolutely no idea despite two posters on this thread giving their first hand experience so you resort to petty name calling.

Your head is in the sand. You'll be thinking of this thread one day when your rust-box lies down on the side of the road.

Do you really not understand how it's possible for the front turret to collapse from rust? Have you any idea of the stresses and strains it is placed under holding the shocks in place?

Just to show how wrong you are, here is an example from a quick Google search: https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/e-class-rust-buckets-front-suspension-turret-collapse.12593/

Toyotafanboi

I dont think anyone is saying it doesn't happen just that's it's not nearly as big a thing as you are making it.

It's not popular or in any way common to see older cars buckling with rust and even though it may happen to the very odd one it's far from the biggest risk in driving one.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072661#Comment_118072661

Playing devils advocate here but the NCT is only a test of a single snapshot in time - Ive seen cars pass an NCT and end up in the workshop a week later with serious issues.

Regarding structural failure - in 27 years in the trade Ive never once seen an axle snap or even a chassis rot to the extent that its dangerous.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083597#Comment_118083597

Man in trade for 27 years and never seen an axle snap. My 22 year old "rust bucket" has not a trace of rust either on the body or underneath. Think I'll take the risk that the rear axle has a mass of hidden rust and continue driving it 😀. 128k miles on the clock, looking to add a lot more.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083780#Comment_118083780

Oh, have you figured out how to prevent the chemical reaction of steel, oxygen, salt and water?

Let us know the secret, we'll all be billionaires.

How did you check the inside of the steel work to be so sure there is no rust?

E36Ross

What do you drive Salonfire?

DoctorEdgeWild

One of the things I missed about boards while it was down was seeing how quickly a discussion thread could descend into absolute madness.

Oh well, I probably won't survive the day as I'm driving my 1991 car today. Goodbye cruel world. Avenge my death fellow posters. Kill all rust in my name.

Hellrazer

You dont have to be that smart Salonfire -most of us in the trade have never seen an axle snap or corrosion to the extent that a vehicle is dangerous.

basill

https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

I think some of you people should go back to the covid fora. Statistically speaking I can't see how anyone here on Boards is going to feature in a death based on an axle snapping. More chance of dying from covid. So you might as well stay at home and put the feet up and look out the window and watch the rest of us getting on with our lives.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083041#Comment_118083041

Show us one example of the so called fatigue accidents you claim are happening ,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084453#Comment_118084453

Thankfully, the average age of cars in Ireland is under 9 years old which means vehicles are safer which feeds into a reduction in Road Deaths. It's well known that a younger national fleet means safer roads. It would be a different picture if we were all driving about in 28 year old rust buckets.

Two posters in this thread give first hand experience of serious damage and I linked a whole thread on the subject a few posts up. Plenty more examples online if you want to search. Just because someone in the trade has not seen it doesn't mean it's not a risk.

Ridiculous the people proclaiming proudly how safe their 28 year old car is without actually subjecting it to proper metallurgical testing. Rust occurs from the inside out which makes it impossible to see visibly. These people are living on notinhg but hope that the axle is not about to snap at the wheel hub, the most vulnerable point and a single point of failure.

As I said, I wouldn't put my family at the same risk. That's why I have a modern, safer car.

colm_mcm

How common is an axle breaking off a wheel hub?

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087310#Comment_118087310

Very rare in my 30 years experience in the motor trade.

Go to Mondello and watch the historics racing. Surely if the hub is the 'most vulnerable point and a single point of failure', there should be wheels flying off left right and centre?

E36Ross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087074#Comment_118087074

Again, What do you drive that's so incredibly safe?

I was out in a 1988 car earlier, in the rain in the dark.... I died 7 times on my way home!

Montage of Feck

I don't know how Jay Leno is still alive...

https://youtu.be/rUg_ukBwsyo

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083170#Comment_118083170

Where do you live, Russia? LADAs have been known to do that.

Come back to reality.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087310#Comment_118087310

Failed bearing on a car with drum brakes would see the drum and wheel come off, would be roaring like a bull elephant beforehand,

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088057#Comment_118088057

I've seen rotten turrets but the car just drops a bit, rarely get a full break and we are talking pre-NCT, mid 90s,

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088065#Comment_118088065

Yeah, but I’m asking how common is it for a wheel to fall off a car, Or a hub to detach from an axle, as suggested earlier by another poster as a reason to buy new cars.

I already know the answer.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090998#Comment_118090998

Never ,think the Indo sent him out to bat for their half-assed opinion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087565#Comment_118087565

Have you never seen the difference between a modern car and an old car after a collision? Or the euroNCAP videos of older cars vs today's cars?

I'm glad you can so glib about dying in a 28 year death trap.

Many people lying in graveyards now who would have walked away had they been driving a modern car of today's safety standard would certainly have choosen to be driving a modern car or been a passenger in a modern car.

Wombatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091925#Comment_118091925

Your cost - benefit analysis is coming up with some wildly different results to mine. Doesn't necessarily mean your or I are 'wrong'.

Our results are different because you are highly risk averse and possibly in a financial position to mitigate perceived risk . Most people who are arguing with you are prepared to take on an acceptable level of risk based on common sense or simple can't afford an all singing all dancing new wagon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091991#Comment_118091991

A modern car does not have to be brand new. But there ought to be no place for 20+ year old cars on our roads like some Soviet-era country. They're more dangerous to the occupants and to others, these are indisputable facts.

Luckily most of the country agrees with me, leaving our national fleet age at just under 9 years.

E36Ross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091925#Comment_118091925

Life is about choices, If we all chose to be extremely safe and mitigate risk all the time... Life would be no fun.

I'm willing to drive old stuff because it's cooler, I can maintain them myself, No DPF to get blocked, No specialist equipment as its simple nuts and bolts, No sensors throwing stupid lights that require a dealer diagnostics computer and best of all I don't have a €40/€50k finance balloon hanging over my head. (So I can spend my money on more 1990s death traps!)

So again for the third time, What extremely modern safe car do you drive?

Andrewf20

I have a classic and am willing to take the risk of driving it 2000 miles a year. Life is for living. For car enthusiasts its not just about getting from A to B. There's a sense of occasion about driving a classic. Like rock climbing, cycling, sea swimming or any other activity that involves some risk, the gains often outweigh the risks.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072556#Comment_118072556

Oh it is. The consumer beast needs feeding and our society is geared up to feed it. Note how the falling birth rates are seen as a problem in many western societies. The fact is about the biggest single environmental impact a person can have is have one fewer child. But that means one less consumer. It's got eff all to do with being "green". Buy our new phones in plastic coated cardboard boxes* with plastic inner wrapping, all destined for landfill, including the phone after a couple of users. But it says environmentally friendly on the box somewhere and has a recycling logo. Of course repairing or upgrading the phones is difficult, if anyone will bother as we've become very used to getting rid when the new shine fades. Pretty much the same goes for cars. There is an awful lot of bullshít involved in the industry "green" stuff, but we buy into it because a) we've become so used to the dopamine hit from new stuff and b) our economies and the wealthiest among us are reliant on us buying into it.

*they'll often have the brass neck to claim made with recyled paper, but by coating the cardboard with plastic means it can't be recyled again.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087538#Comment_118087538

While I agree with you regarding the daft paranoia on show S, to be fair race cars are not a good judge. They get significantly more attention to the mechanics and structure than a family Tesco school run bus would and will have uprated components throughout. You take I dunno a 60's Mini race car. What's left of the 60's mini amounts to the bodyshell, the basic metal lump of the engine, the badge on the back and little else. The shell might be seam welded, it'll have a roll cage adding to the structural strength, the interior removed so any rot will be seen far more easily, the suspension will be completely replaced and uprated, the brakes certainly will. Plus it will have been checked off by scrutineers before it's let near a track. If you took a pristine all original concours winning 60's Mini out on the Mondello track it would be far slower, if you still had brakes after a lap or two you'd be lucky and if you crashed it would not be a pretty sight.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087565#Comment_118087565

Well so long as it isn't an 80's Lancia... 😁