GAA need to step up

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051525#Comment_118051525

It has never been explained what, other than trespass by a few idiots, it has to do with the GAA?

The home of the Ulster football was used similarly by supporters of the H-Blocks the night before an Ulster Final. Massive H's drawn in cresote on the grass. The grounds walls are STILL spiked and barbed wired to try and prevent reoccurance.

People use sports all the time, loads of examples. Reasonable people aren't opening threads to have cheap shots.

ArnoldJRimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051525#Comment_118051525

I'm using an example from the late 80s/ early 90s when tensions were extremely high and the communities in the north were at their most divided. You can look to Windsor Park 1993 for probably the lowest point of sports and politics mixing in Northern Ireland. You seem to be claiming that this is the norm for the GAA in 2021, which is simply not the case

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051525#Comment_118051525

Hi Mark.

I posted this earlier in the thread but I think you may have missed it. It is an official statement from the club concerned.

Screenshot_20211014-093814_Samsung Internet.jpg

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057477#Comment_118057477

This being one of the many pile on threads on Boards facts that run counter to the OPs politics will be ignored at all costs

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050409#Comment_118050409

Buying a poppy is donating to terrorism, unless you think the murder of Innocent Catholics is justified.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057933#Comment_118057933

It also raises money for the lads who sauntered off to Iraq and committed war crimes.

And then of course you have the crazed nationalistic witch hunt for anyone who doesn't wear one

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058047#Comment_118058047

How do you feel towards the Irish army?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057477#Comment_118057477

They had a great opportunity to condemn it and they had to work hard in the wording to ensure they did not condemn it.as said before it was also factually untrue as the event did take place.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058473#Comment_118058473

As in the Defense Forces ?

I don't ever remember hearing of the bombing Iraq or anything similar

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058482#Comment_118058482

I imagine there's always a counter argument if you look hard enough.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058482#Comment_118058482

Surely surely even you can see that Mark's claims that the club

"has appeared to just whitewash the incident" and

"clearly some of its members organised this"

are at best lies and at worse libellous when read alongside the official statement from the club?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058563#Comment_118058563

Are you struggling to answer the question?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059254#Comment_118059254

I completely agree with the sentiment of what he is saying. The local, county and national GAA refused to condemn the use of their facilities by those who are connected to the murder of Lyra McKee. That must be pretty clear to you??

as for members organising it. I don’t have evidence, but I would be shocked if several of those in paramilitary gear are not members of the GAA. I think we all know that.

I saw stats that of the the people killed by republican terrorists, it is estimated that over 1,000 were killed by members of the GAA. A far greater figure than the murderers who had membership of the orange order, udr, ruc and British army combined. Your boys have a great pr machine

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059658#Comment_118059658

I'm pretty neutral (haha) on the Defense Forces in general but very happy we have an army that never goes to foreign countries to invade.

I'm sure you have some sad big shock reveal now to catch me out about the Defense Forces otherwise you wouldn't be banging on

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058482#Comment_118058482

And as also said before, the statement is dated 9th of September. Worth pointing out too that it clearly states the club did not grant permission for the event, because you appear to have missed that too (again). It only became "factually untrue" after the fact, when the event organisers chose to ignore the statement and turn up there without permission anyway.

I believe the GAA is a great organisation in many ways, but its greatness doesn't extend to the ability to see the future.

If I put up notices to say there'd be a rave in your garden next weekend, you replied with "I have not given permission for a rave. There will be no rave", and then I went ahead with it anyway, would it automatically follow that you must have in fact have been complicit in the rave in the first place? Because of your "factually untrue" statement?

And if I and the other organisers of the rave were self-styled and intimidating "hard men" who are capable and probably willing to give you a good beating or exact some other retribution if you stood up to us, would you publicly condemn us anyway, or would you stay quiet about it for the sake of your own and/or your property's safety?

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059697#Comment_118059697

I saw stats that of the the people killed by republican terrorists, it is estimated that over 1,000 were killed by members of the GAA.

Can you link to these stats please?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059920#Comment_118059920

The thread where mark and downcow make stuff up and hope it sticks.

ArnoldJRimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060217#Comment_118060217

I've heard of some pretty bizarre studies before, such as whether corn flakes get less soggy if you put the milk in first. But I highly doubt someone completed a dissertation on 'The Hobbies of Northern Irish Terrorists: 1969-The Present Day.'

Uncle Pierre

More than 1,000 people killed by members of the GAA? Sounds pretty bad all right. I'll give him that.

But here's one that's even worse:

Just about all 3,500 victims of the Northern Ireland troubles were killed by people who'd watched TV in the previous week.

The BBC and ITV must be complicit in the whole thing too.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060217#Comment_118060217

Like many things this poster spouts, it's a load of contradictory and goading nonsense anyway, something is either a statistic or an estimate, statistics can't be estimates for crying out loud!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060568#Comment_118060568

You think thats bad you should look at how many of the terrorists speak English.

So I reckon based on that stat that its actually the English are at fault for this whole mess.

Duckworth_Luas

"I saw stats that of the the people killed by republican terrorists, it is estimated that over 1,000 were killed by members of the GAA."

Well those jerks should be turfed out of the organisation posthaste.

What I'd like to know though is who was the statistician who came up with this "estimate"?

It seems odd that some poindexter was not only able to identify the perpetrator of many crimes that law enforcement were unable to at the time, but this egghead was also able to gain access to all these GAA club subscription records.

But saying all that Downcow seems like a guy who pours over these many, and I'm sure frequent, statistical studies that links murderers to their sports clubs of choice.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059697#Comment_118059697

I have read some ridiculous posts on these forums but this one has to be right up there with the very worse.

... Where to start ...

To actually state that it must be "pretty clear" that the "local GAA refused to condemn the use of their facilities" AFTER BEING SHOWN THEIR OFFICIAL STATEMENT is bordering on trolling.

Next up without a shred of evidence we have the poster would be "shocked" if they were not "members of the GAA" and "I think we all know that" ... again not a single shred of evidence just plain and simple ignorance and bigotry.

Then comes the killer quote ...

"I saw stats" ... "over 1000 were killed by members of the GAA"

I think when you resort to this type of nonsense Downcow, you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

It makes me sad to see such levels of prejudice against a sporting organisation simply because "them-uns" play those sports. Those views do not belong in a progressive society of the 2020s.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059771#Comment_118059771

Well that says it all. Seems you are saying that the GAA are afraid of violent republicans. A shocking admission that they can do what they like.

it takes courage to create Change. Believe it or not, I actually would have a more positive view of the GAA than you are painting. I am confident there are many good courageous people in it - they are just clearly not the ones in control. Maybe someday they will be.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059920#Comment_118059920

I’ll try but it’s a while ago.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060420#Comment_118060420

Oh they absolutely have. Lots of stuff on how many orangemen done everything from murdering people to drinking a beer in public places.

this was a ‘survey’ of a group of republican ex prisoners as to what percentage were GAA members and then they multiplied out percentage to estimate murders committed by GAA members. Hardly rocket science.

by the way they done same with a group of ex loyalist prisoners and membership of OO was surprising low - less than 20%; their band membership was higher.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060568#Comment_118060568

Thanks uncle. My point exactly. The OO get these stats thrown at them when OO are less likely to commit murder than non OO male Protestants. Lies, damned lies and statistics

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015856#Comment_118015856

Oh give over

lawred2

Actually opened this thread thinking it was going to be about the special Congress..

Had I noticed the OP, I'd have not bothered.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060813#Comment_118060813

I don’t think I referred to it as a statistic? But you are quite right, ‘estimate’ is a much better word.

it is estimated that over 1,000 murders were carried out by members of the GAA in the north.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060907#Comment_118060907

Haha. That makes us all English in this thread and all responsible

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060941#Comment_118060941

as mcmurphy says , it was an estimate. It was from a study of republican and loyalist prisoners.

it identified how many were involved in the GAA and then extrapolated that across the murders carried out by republicans. Your right, they may only have killed 900 people.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061167#Comment_118061167

You referred to it as a stat. That's short for statistic.

Instead of a discussion about something you might have read, why don't you go away, find the info, and then come back to the thread? That way the thread doesn't descend into nonsense for a few pages.

Also, members of the gaa and involved with the gaa are completely different.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061016#Comment_118061016

Bit of a sad post there. No responsibility taken.

can you post the sentence where the GAA condemned the dissidents for using their facilities? If you can’t then stop claiming they did. I haven’t looked, but I imagine it wouldn’t take long to find a crystal clear condemnation by the GAA of the British army using their facilities - but that’s different because they don’t like what the army stand for or do. lol.

then you cropped my words to misrepresent me. I said that I’d be shocked if SOME OF THEM were not members. Are you really trying to tell us on here that you would guess none of the terrorists demonstrating in bellaghy grounds that day were members of the GAA - come on now, we are entering sweetie mice territory and every single poster on here knows that.

your third point has some validity, but only if you apply this approach equally to OO etc. You can’t throw this about at ‘the others’ and then get upset when someone holds a mirror up at your community organisations.

some shocking prejudice and naivety on this thread.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061166#Comment_118061166

No surprises there then. Confirms the whole basis of my argument and the ostrich-type behaviour of many in GAA

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061189#Comment_118061189

Yes I see I did. I have subsequently agreed with mcmurphy that ‘estimate’ is a more appropriate word, but there is not much wrong with ‘stat’ either. Many stats are based on polls or estimates (I think)

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061211#Comment_118061211

not really.. every single one of your 'threads' is the exact same. Seen one. Seen em all. That's all.

FrancieBrady

So were these 'murderers' working for the GAA, is that the point you are making? Did they dress in their county colours while on manoeuvers? Whack someone with hurl?

Like the incident that prompted the OP, I am failing to see the responsibility of the GAA here.

Funny stuff actually.

downcow

There is a clear attempt to make this thread about the validity of this estimate. If you would like to claim that few if any members of the ira were in the GAA, then make that claim - a bit of humour would lighten the mood. If you think lots of Ira killers were also members of the ira, then don’t chase down a cul de sac of looking for evidence of something you know to be true.

the GAA are not to blame for sectarian terrorists being in their ranks anymore than the OO are. It’s how they manage the situation that is the issue. Do they let them hold them back by letting them name clubs after other terrorists, give prizes to kids that celebrate terrorists, refuse to condemn terrorists of one side using their facilities, not act when their senior teams openly support terrorists, etc,etc. ??

so let’s stay on topic.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061254#Comment_118061254

You pre-empted my later post. GAA are not responsible for what their members do outside their facilities if not on official GAA business. Same exactly for OO.

And I don’t think it is any more likely that the ira would have worn GAA shirts on active service that the Uvf wearing orange sashes. Hurls - now that’s a whole different story.

I do think the OO is completely responsible if those on parade abuse residents, just the same as the GAA is completely responsible if their county team members shout IRA at young Protestant girls. I would expect both to act decisively and openly.

mis that clear and consistent?

FrancieBrady

'The GAA are not responsible' but when your argument begins to fail you throw in some 'stats' for a while and then walk backwards from them later when called out on them? Now you are claiming 'consistency' 😁

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061335#Comment_118061335

No idea what you are saying.

I do not hold the GAA responsible for the historic makeup of their membership or what their members get up to in their own time.

I do hold them responsible for any sectarian attitudes tolerated within the organisation and any activities, meetings, concerts, etc with sectarian overtones. I also hold them responsible when they don’t act against clear sectarian acts whether their teams shouting from buses or minorities feeling intimidated away from participation. They are also responsible for not addressing chill factors to Protestants.

I would apply the same measure to loyal orders, other sports and workplaces, etc. That’s all. Not much to ask.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061167#Comment_118061167

To be fair to them, the GAA did have Rule 21.

And only for that rule, that figure could have been multiples of that

So you have to give them credit for that downcow!!! They kept most of the murders out!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061574#Comment_118061574

And you are also, by opening this thread, attempting to hold them responsible for something outside their control. And also throwing any old made up muck at them when that original argument falters for lack of credibility, i.e. the mythical 'stats' you threw into the conversation.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061200#Comment_118061200

Here we go with the "them-uns" crap again.

Please don't refer to "your boys" and "your community" when addressing my posts. I am an individual with my own opinion.

Then you go on to compare the Orange Order with the GAA.

Why?

The Orange Order is a fraternal organisation open only to protestants who should "scrupulously avoid countenancing (by his presence or otherwise) any act or ceremony of Roman Catholic or other non-Reformed Worship; he should, by all lawful means, resist the ascendancy, encroachments, and the extension of their power" (a DIRECT QUOTE from them)

Whereas the GAA is a SPORTING organisation which is "anti-sectarian, anti-racist and committed to the principles of inclusion and diversity at all levels" again a DIRECT QUOTE from the organisation.

Please stay on topic. Can you not for once debate a topic without playing the "my community v your community" card ?

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059697#Comment_118059697

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061167#Comment_118061167

That auld amnesia must be a terrible affliction.

I saw stats that of the the people killed by republican terrorists, it is estimated that over 1,000 were killed by members of the GAA. A far greater figure than the murderers who had membership of the orange order, udr, ruc and British army combined. Your boys have a great pr machine

Uncle Pierre

I got involved in this thread while not knowing the track record of the OP. I'm leaving this thread now.

He might accuse me of burying my head in the sand as well. My reply to that is that if I need to take my head out of the sand, then he and far too many others like him (on both sides of the divide in the North) need to take their heads out of the last century.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061594#Comment_118061594

Back on message.

its a pity that the GAA neither locally or nationally could say one word of condemnation about those implicated in the Lyra McKee murder using their facilities.

it is nothing short of shocking!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063632#Comment_118063632

The GAA has no business involving itself in politics. It doesn't condemn hooded Loyalists running about the streets either, or comment on other events. Didn't you and mark want 'sport' and politics to be separate?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063724#Comment_118063724

Francie you take such a partisan hypocritical positIon. Are you really saying that the GAA don’t condemn stuff that happens on their facilities that they don’t agree with?? Do you want some links of them condemning stuff?? They don’t condemn stuff republicans do. They condemn lots of other things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063724#Comment_118063724