Ryanair ambush of passengers who used chargebacks during Covid

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013444#Comment_118013444

I'd guess the difference is that your flights were actually cancelled, so you had a legal entitlement to a refund (whether or not Ryanair wanted to offer it or not!)

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012797#Comment_118012797

Would retaining credit card details between one booking and another be Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards compliant?

I think how Ryanair have identified returning customers who previously made a chargeback needs to be clarified and whether it is PCI-DSS compliant.

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212895/ryanair-ambush-of-passengers-who-used-chargebacks-during-covid

Vendors are not consulted when a chargeback occurs. Worse yet, there is often an administration fee levied.

I used to sell a small selection of software for macOS through a third party payment processor. When a chargeback occurred they hit me with a $15 bill in addition to taking the money back. I did have the ability to contest, but that cost another $15 minimum with no guarantees, and as the fees were more than my sale price there was no point in chasing things.

These days I sell on the App Store instead: https://apps.apple.com/ie/app/superior-solitaire/id1570982173?mt=12

Coming back to the point, though: I don't think Ryanair are in the wrong here.

To those saying that the debt should be collected at booking time, think about what you're saying for a minute; if you're booking a flight and the price suddenly jumps up by €700 because of an outstanding debt, you're presumably going to go to another airline and Ryanair will get nothing at all. If they were to email you after your booking was made, that wouldn't help either; you'd issue another chargeback and Ryanair would be even worse off and they'd have to chase you through the courts.

Ambushing passengers at check in is a bit tacky, sure – but I'd suggest that the customers started it when they stole money from Ryanair by making invalid chargebacks.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013646#Comment_118013646

If thats the case, I'd be charging back this flight and another payments made to ryan air.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013646#Comment_118013646

I take your point about how chargebacks work but to describe it as the customer "stealing" money from Ryanair is a bit OTT. I saw in a report in the Guardian today that Ryanair are in fact offering a refund of the subsequent fare, if the passenger chooses not to repay the chargeback. That I suspect is to avoid them being accused of stealing (obtaining under a false pretense) part of the chargeback back from the passenger. The implication of allowing companies to do this could be fairly severe. Eg anyone who has a direct debit mandate could dip into your bank account and take money they believe they are owed. A lot of people here seem to think Ryanair are in the right here, and maybe they are. But, the reason why we have courts is to adjudicate on questions like that. If I feel a company owes me money and they aren't playing ball, I can't just put my hands in their till and take it back.

Noxegon

Respectfully, I disagree. Customer purchases service with specific terms and conditions with respect to refunds. Customer decides not to use service, and is declined a refund. Instead of accepting that, they go to their credit card company and use the chargeback mechanism to take money that they're not entitled to under the terms they themselves agree to.

For me, that's theft.

dubdaymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014511#Comment_118014511

Bank of Ireland has now admitted they were wrong to instigate chargebacks.

Bank of Ireland says it was wrong to seek refund for Ryanair passenger who requested it (irishtimes.com)

A spokeman for the bank adds, “We didn’t handle this matter appropriately, and we have contacted the customer to rectify things.”

No sign, though, of an apology to Ryanair for stealing their money. They agree that before the chargebacks were instigated they didn't bother to contact Ryanair and check which says a lot about the bank and its procedures.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024821#Comment_118024821

So, that implies that vendors are normally consulted when a charge back occurs. Though, I'm not sure whether I believe that 100%. Is Ryanair a major customer of Bank of Ireland, I wonder ..... ? Anyone know what the rules for charge backs actually are?

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026643#Comment_118026643

They're not consulted – the bank reviews the case and makes a decision. See here:

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/merchant-chargebacks-101-what-they-are-why-they-matter

Seve OB

How long does it take for a chargeback?

I was double charged in a shop I was in and put through a chargeback claim over a month ago and still haven’t been refunded.

I know on the otherhand in my business we get hit with a fair few chargebacks, they take the money off us straight away and make us state our case

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027177#Comment_118027177

Vendors typically are offered a chance to dispute the chargeback, and to submit any evidence to dispute the customer's claim.

We use AIBMS for our card acquiring, and there's a standardised letter we get informing us of every chargeback, and giving us a deadline to dispute it within.

During the height of covid, AIBMS warned us that most of the merchant responses weren't getting looked at - due to volume - and that the card companies were typically paying out the majority of chargeback requests without any investigation. The BOI statement above seems to bear that out

goingnowhere

Presumably they are joining the dots via the chargeback itself as the transaction description should include the booking reference number?

Qprmeath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032578#Comment_118032578

I put in one against Aer Lingus Sept 2020 and got money back May 2021.

theteal

Weird update in line with this topic. As mentioned previously, my flight was cancelled and the unasked for voucher provided instead of requested refund so I did a chargeback and all went through in no time at all. I have since flown with them with no issue.

Just today I have received an email from them reminding me that my voucher will expire soon and provides a couple of options - one of which is refund. Not really sure what I'm going to do with that. It's a tiny amount in the scheme of things.