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Civil claim v criminal trial

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  • 09-10-2021 6:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21


    Hey guys

    Prob a stupid question but can you bring a civil case against the gardai at the same time that you are the accused in a criminal trial where said gardai are the ones who charged you? All to do with the same thing

    If so what law should i read up on just for clarification?

    Thanks



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    You can't sue the Gardaí for actions arising out of their prosecutorial or investigatory functions if that's what your getting at?

    Otherwise, a case of negligence is actionable, but, only when outside the remit of their prosecutorial or investigatory functions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    @GM228

    Thanks for that.

    Its just a breach of constitutional rights they committed and the cover up they did afterwards.

    ^^ this can be proved but any legal professional i have received advice from says judges look the other way and are "pro gardai".

    A frightening concept if someone was actually innocent. I have learned the hard way that gardai seem to be above the law.


    Thanks again



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭hierro


    Make a complaint to GSOC and quit relying on a civil case your legal advice doesn't wish to entertain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    @hierro

    A family member of mine is a garda. He said complaining to garda obudsman is like a badge of honour to guards. And forgive me if my level of trust in the justice system is shattered.

    They dont wish to entertain because they said id never win against garda. Not exactly stellar advice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭hierro


    Fair enough, but these are unprecedented times in relation to Garda discipline and if you've proof of wrong doing then I'm sure a badge of honour, it would never be.

    Either way it appears you have little to lose rattling off an online complaint to the GSOC.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,116 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    What sort of a breach; did his cap fall off when he nicked you? ☺️



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Let me get this straight, you have a family member who is a Guard and have sought legal professional advice, and then came here asking for advice and enquiring what law to read up on? I don't buy that, but let's run with it anyway.

    I come from a family of Gardaí and also take a special interest in the Gardaí when it comes to my legal studies in relation to misconduct, breach of rights and all sorts of related matters and I can tell you that your legal professionals and family member are talking s***e (assuming of course that is what they advised) saying judges look the other way and are pro Garda and that a GSOC complaint is like a badge of honour, that's just a load of rubbish.

    There's plenty of case law concerning the Gardaí falling foul of Constitutional and statutory requirements, so much so that a breach can and has many times seen a criminal trial collapse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    @gm22

    Well that is what i was told. Hence why i am here for other peoples views.

    What do i have to gain by going on this site and lying for the craic?

    What you are saying should be rubbish but im being told this and i am up on a heap. I dont get the rudeness and your ignorant assumptions.

    If you dont believe me thats your perogative but you do have the option of scrolling on passed my post. This kind of attitude is not helpful in the slightest and goes against the whole point of boards.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rubbish. There is no such thing as a badge of honour for being the target of a GSOC complaint. Perhaps your family member is trying to stop you from complaining?

    When this constitutional breach was happening, what did your solicitor do? Were you in custody/arrested at the time?

    GSOC are the independent body who deal with complaints against AGS, that's who you complain to. Maybe, if your complaint is upheld, there may be a case for damages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    @Losty Dublin

    Its very complicated but include

    Entering premises without a valid warrant.

    Coerced confession with a serious threat. (Including being forced to say i invited them into my premises).

    Told i had to come into garda station straight away but not told it was voluntary until interview began.

    Told i didnt need a solicitor because i wasnt under arrest while repeating the threat.

    Interrogation/cross examining in this "voluntary" interview.

    False and conflicting statements in book of evidence by two detectives

    Lying about my location, my confession etc (three witnesses can attest to these lies)

    Yes once i knew it was voluntary i could walk but if i did the threat would seriously affect another family member.

    Etc etc



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well then GSOC is where you need to go.

    Is there any reason you have waited this long?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    So.... you did actually commit the crime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    @Former Former Former

    Yes. That doesnt mean the gardai can break the law in carrying out their duties now does it? One law for me and not for thee..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any reason you have waited so long to complain?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    No, but just trying to gauge how much sympathy we should have for you.

    If what you're saying is true, any half decent barrister will get the case thrown out anyway. That would be the time to look at your options.

    Bit much to be looking for compo for getting caught breaking the law, IMHO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,116 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    With all of that to consider, most solicitors would be ordering the extension to their house along with the new Beemer if even some of this is credible.

    Seriously, you need to consult a competent legal firm if even some of all of this happened, ASAP if this trial is ongoing or a contender for appeal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Has the criminal trial concluded?

    Plenty of solicitors would be all over a provable breech of constitutional rights tbh. The pro-garda stuff is not true.

    The issue is that a out of people, when accused are very anti-garda. And sometimes take thier actions when simply doing their job as personal attacks.

    I appreciate that a summary and there's no details. But on the face of it.

    You don't need a warrant to enter a premises. Did what did they do when in the premises?

    What was the threat? Is the threat recorded in the interview? Was it a false confession.

    If you came in on your own then it was voluntary. Nobody dragged you there. If you were told it was voluntary at the start you could have left.

    If you weren't under arrest you didn't need a solicitor. That doesn't appear to be a lie.

    Who interrogated you? A certain amount of question should be expected in an interview. You could have left.

    Conflicting how? There's a huge trivial notes to false evidence.

    Lying about you location in court? Or where?

    The one about affecting a family member doesn't make a lot of sense.


    Which constitutional rights do you think have been infringed. I'm not doubting you, but Im sure you can see the above could be anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    I've learned its what can be proved that counts both by the Garda & the court system, being innocent or guilty is a side issue to them.

    www.sligowhiplash.com - 3rd & 4th Aug '24 (Tickets on sale now!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    I'm not saying your lying, I just find it odd, very odd in fact that anyone would state such to you, I'm not trying to be rude or make ignorant assumptions either, but, anyone in the profession or a legal advisor is talking rubbish if that is what they are telling you.

    On the point of boards, it is actually against the forum charter to seek or give legal advice anyway, we try to deal in the hypothetical, rather than real life situations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha




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  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    Not about compensation. Couldnt care less. Just want to be held accountable while they are also held accountable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    Yes. But i was asking a generic question and replying to ppl has turned into legal advice.

    And i would say that 99.9% of threads in legal advice is not hypothetical!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    Yes i do get the whole voluntary thing. But what if you were told you HAD to come in. Threatened to talk or they would be going after a family member (i cant go into it) then were told it was voluntary once you were in the interview room.

    I walked in under the illusion i had to be there and then when i found out i didnt need to be there i had no other choice anyway because of said threat.

    Then being pressured to co-operate about crime details you could barely remember and made false details in the interview out of fear the threat would be carried out if you didnt talk. ( i wasnt trying to actually hide anything i was just confessing while making up details that were still bad)

    I was there against my will and sang like a canary against my will and was attacked verbally when something didnt make sense to them (and that exchange was the only thing missing from the transcript in the book of evidence).

    Sorry i know its confusing. Appreciate the reply all the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    And by the way. Im very pro gardai. Well i was. I have many family/friends in the guards.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But is the threat not part of your complaint?

    Why didn't you go before now and complain about that? What has changed in relation to this theat, that you can now complain?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    I have probably one of the best solicitors in the country but he is basing all his advice on the book of evidence without having all the facts. When i try to tell him he cuts me off and then says judges will look the other way bla bla.

    Was with another solicitor before him who was a complete disaster in communicating etc so im not moving again and im in court in 2 weeks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    They cant touch the person they were threatening me about anymore



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Buttscratcha


    Very helpful.

    Believe it or not good people can still commit crimes, almost inevitable to some people with particular mental health issues.

    Dont worry i have suffered for 3 years far far far worse then any punishment the courts can hand down.

    I would gladly go to prison if these gardai were also punished. They committed a crime too. They broke laws and infringed on constiutional rights. Dont you think its a slippery slope when everyone looks the other way when they break the law?

    If the criminal justice system is to work then everyone should be equal before the law.

    They could easily have done this legally but they didnt. They took the lazy threatening way instead.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Which constitutional rights do you feel they broke? It's not clear from your post



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