2021 NFL season - Week 5 thread

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118002983#Comment_118002983

In fairness they have the 5th highest scoring offense in the league and have had a pretty tough schedule outside of the Eagles. Their defense has been pretty horrible though. The offense is still a long way above average even if they have dropped a bit.

Xavi6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003271#Comment_118003271

Fair points and the schedule gets a bit easier now but Mahomes already has as many interceptions this season as he did in 2020 and they've struggled to get Hill open against any good defense. Maybe Josh Gordon can get into a groove and I was surprised he was only targeted once for 11 yards (I had a 20/1 multi bet on the game and needed him to get over 14.5 yards for it to come in 😭).

We're only 5 games in but I definitely think the Chargers will win the AFC West comfortably and that horrible defense means the Chiefs won't come anywhere near to making a run in the playoffs.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003296#Comment_118003296

I agree that the offense is worse than previous seasons and it is the Charger's division to lose. I don't want to count the Chiefs out of making a run in the play offs just yet but the odds seem against them.

The_Honeybadger

Would it be fair to say the Chiefs haven’t exactly helped themselves in terms of team building since the emergence of Mahomes? Hill and Kelce were already there and I can’t think of a single impact player that they have drafted on either side of the ball since. Drafting Mahomes will give Veach a lot of slack naturally, but I don’t think he has covered himself in glory since, and perhaps the cracks are starting to show. Maybe I’m being a bit harsh IDK

They still have the talent to find some form and make a run later on but I’d agree that you’d have to strongly favour the Chargers for the division at this stage, and the Bills are probably going to get the #1 seed so they will have a much more difficult path in January than what they are used to

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003253#Comment_118003253

Of the top ten passing leaders and passing TD leaders of all time seven sat to start their careers and three started. The three QB's with the most Superbowl wins of all time, and they were all considered the GOAT towards the end of their careers, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady, all sat to start their careers.

We could go at this all day but there's lots of evidence to suggest that sitting for a year is a really good option.

Sometimes it's not an option due to injuries or how poor the other QB's on the roster are. I was hoping that Mac Jones got to start for the Patriots this year because I felt he wouldn't learn anything sitting behind Cam Newton due to the fact that rushing is a huge part of his game. In an ideal world I'd have liked Jones to sit a year behind a pocket passer.

I'm sure you aren't going to change your mind on it and I won't change mine either but I think the evidence points to sitting a year as the best option.

Oat23

In pre-season I would have leaned towards sitting Lance for similar reasons to why I wanted Trubisky to sit in 2017: Small school QB with limited experience starting. No need to rush him. But seeing him on the field now the Niners can clearly move the ball with him. He's not getting beat up and while he'll have his rookie moments he's not "seeing ghosts" as a certain QB once said. I think he's capable of starting and it benefitting him more than hurting him.

Saying that, going with Lance this early when you really don't have to (Jimmy G is a capable QB unlike Mike Glennon in 2017) would be a big call for Shanahan to make after the bye so I think he'll go back to Jimmy G for a month or two. If he went with Lance now and he started struggling big time then benching him to protect him would be a confidence destroyer.

Xavi6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003837#Comment_118003837

I think that’s fair. They traded away a first round pick for Frank Clark and that hasn’t gone great overall. Their last four first picks have been Breeland Speaks (bust), Mecole Hardman, Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Nick Bolton so they haven’t hit on anything special. Juan Thornhill started well but hasn’t been trusted since coming back from his knee surgery.

This year they went big on fixing the o-line and that’s actually going well considering they’re all fresh faces. The problem is it didn’t leave much wiggle room to address the other glaring issues and there’s a lot of cracks right now. I heard a good point on a Chiefs podcast today - the offense was playing slow against the Bills because it would mean less time on the field for the defense (the Chiefs had possession for 5 minutes more across the game). That’s a damning assessment if there’s any truth to it.

The Rams are my current favourites to go the whole way.

Munter

I fear that if Trey Lance doesn't learn to protect himself better on the run he'll end up on IR sooner rather than later. I cringed at some of the collisions in yesterday's game and I kept thinking about RGIII in his rookie year. One play in the 2nd half he ran towards the sideline and instead of running out of bounds, he tried to cut inside and got tackled hard by JJ Watt. He'll learn but these types of decisions doesn't lend itself to a long career in the NFL. It was a tough day also for some QBs like Daniel Jones, Joe Burrow and Taysom Hill.

Oat23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005248#Comment_118005248

Fields is doing the same. He took a huge hit to the ribs yesterday (exactly like the one in the game against Clemson in Jan) despite saying he wouldn't be attempting that spin move after what happened previously. Think it's a case of them trying to impress and doing too much.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003253#Comment_118003253

Fully agree - there is no guaranteed 'right way' to bring in a rookie QB but recent evidence doesn't point to starting them early being a negative.

As you mentioned earlier, if you look beyond the passing stats Lance gained more yards than Murray, who has significantly better weapons and been in the MVP conversation. He is the 4th youngest QB ever to start a game in the Super Bowl era and came within a few inches and a few drops from going on the road and beating a divisional rival that is the last remaining undefeated team in the NFL

The biggest knock on Lance coming out was his lack of game time, having played one full season at a lower college level, and then having COVID ruin last season. There was a drastic improvement in his performance yesterday compared to when he came in against the Seahawks - far from perfect but much, much less like a deer in headlights. That improvement was with a half of NFL experience, a game plan designed for him, and one week of taking QB starter reps.

If Jimmy G was playing at the level Alex Smith was when Mahomes sat for the year I wouldn't have an issue with Lance sitting - as the 49ers would be contenders. What we have unfortunately seen this year is Jimmy at his usual lows that are very low and then highs that just okay. Given that, I don't see the downside in sticking with Lance. Yesterday was only his 2nd start in nearly two years - he'll learn far more from getting all the starting QB snaps in practice, going out and getting used to NFL speed, testing what he can and can't get away with against live defenders (like that he can't bowl them over like in college), making some mistakes like all the rookies are making, than playing as the scout team QB for the year.

Overall, very happy with what we say yesterday. With such minimal time to prepare and exposure he showed the ceiling that made him the 3rd pick and what we've been missing the last few years with Jimmy as QB.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005248#Comment_118005248

This is probably the one argument I understand as a reason to sit him but I expect he learned more from that game yesterday in regards to protecting himself than he would have in a year being a backup. You don't hit QBs in practice so whenever he got on the field he was going to try things that he got away with in college - he regularly bowled over guys in college with similar runs but it is a very different world in the NFL.

Some of the hits he took I blame on Kyle. I'm sure he removed elements of the usual window dressing to simplify things for Lance but some of the QB power runs they did from an empty backfield with no motion so the defense could go full speed at Lance. To make things worse I counted a few times they ran Lance towards the weakest part of our OL (RG).

It wasn't like the OL was putting him in a position to get murdered out there, which would have been a reason for me to sit him. They held up pretty well and Lance had the awareness to use his legs most of the time when things broke down. The OL did commit a lot of holds which is likely down to them trying to get used to playing with a QB that is mobile and adjusting their form - which is just another argument as to why the more reps Lance plays the quicker the team will get used to those things (same with the WRs knowing what to do when he scrambles and catching balls with way more power).

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118004791#Comment_118004791

All your evidence says is that historically QBs sat for at least a year with some exceptions. Hence people who sat a year dominate historical stats because most QBs who are old enough to hold historical records sat a year as opposed to QBs sitting a year doing better.

Added to this coming from college to the pros isn't the same as 20 years ago so the comparison isn't as valid.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007174#Comment_118007174

So a trend that has QBs from the 60's, 70's, 2000's and then Mahomes isn't good enough for you?

Whose the best QB in the league the last three years? Who were the two best for the previous ten? If I said the answers to those questions were Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers would you agree? They all sat to start their careers.

How recent do we need to go?

Josh Allen got to start early in his career but the plan was to sit him. That changed because Nate Peterman was horrendous.

How many can you name that came out recently, started straight away and are contending for MVP honours?

Xavi6

Hell of a start to MNF.

Xavi6

Oh dear, Lamar is having a shocker. A fumble from near the goal line goes the other way for 6, lovely little offload as well from the Colts.

Edit: Boo, it's coming back for an illegal forward pass.

eagle eye

Ravens are awful tonight but they're not out of it yet. I've seen the Colts blowing great opportunities already this season, I hope they don't do it here.

eagle eye

19 point lead is now 7 and plenty of time left.

Xavi6

Good drive here from the Colts, running down the clock nicely and in scoring position now.

Xavi6

And a blocked FG, good ending coming up.

eagle eye

Colts are the best team in the league at blowing a winning position.

eagle eye

Colts in field goal range right at the end but there's big question marks over Blankenship's health so we don't know if he can hit it.

Xavi6

Yep, he shanks it again. Might be on the street tomorrow.

eagle eye

Blankenship missed it, we are going to overtime.

Xavi6

Lamar ends with 37/43 for 442 yards and 4 TDs, 335 of them after half time. Overcame the earlier issues with the fumble and little things like tripping over a lineman, impressive stuff.

eagle eye

Ravens do it. Lamar 442 passing yards and 62 rushing, over 500 yards of offense.

Ravens run of consecutive 100+ yards rushing games ended tonight as they only had 86.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987574#Comment_117987574

11-5 for this week and if I’d picked the eagles like I normally used to do and not picked the jets for some bizarre reason id have had an even better week.

So 46-34 after five weeks.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007226#Comment_118007226

It isn't a trend unless you can show that QBs who started early have done worse.

Not competing for mvp straight away but Josh Allen, Peyton, Herbert, Dak, Wilson, Ryan, Stafford all started right away and that is without checking about anyone else. All learned how to play on the job. The plan was to sit Allen but he didn't sit so it is irrelevant, he learned while starting. It was not the plan for all of them but it happened and they thrived.

It isn't a trend if everyone was sitting so there is a control. I reckon it depends on the QB and the team but a QB can have success with either strategy. I would be sitting Wilson (ideally, the Jets don't have an option) since he always seemed to have a lot more basics to learn than the other 4.

Good to see Gruden gone and that was a great game last night. Especially once Ravens stopped forcing the run and take the pass yards that were there.

paulie21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987669#Comment_117987669

12-4 takes me to 49-31 on season

collybyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986778#Comment_117986778

12 - 4 this week takes me to 53 - 27 for the season.

Didn't get to see as much live as I would have liked so leaned heavily on the YouTube highlights on Monday to catch-up. Tough weekend for any Giants and Lions fans on here. Don't know what you guys think but I liked seeing the emotion from Dan Campbell in his presser. I know you can't run a team long term on emotion but that franchise has been a tire fire for so long now and even though they haven't picked up a win you can't help but feel those guys would run through walls for him as a coach.

For all the missed FG's in the Packers Bengals game I always felt it was GB's to win, they just made hard work of it. As for Browns Chargers, what an absolute shoot-out between two offenses playing with no fear and no shortage of talent to back it up. The Browns have been on the wrong end of two of these now with the Chiefs and Chargers and it's just hard to see them getting over the hump against the really elite teams this year.

Final word to the Bills who look every inch the AFC champs this year already. It's one of the things I love about the NFL is that every few years a franchise comes along from the absolute wilderness and within a couple of draft picks, signings and coaching appointments becomes a contender. For as long as I've been following football the Bills have never been more than an afterthought. Being honest, I don't think anyone thought Allen was the answer either for the first two seasons. But yet here they are looking like an absolute powerhouse and potentially the best team in football this year. Fair play to them and their fans, gives hope to everyone out there I think.