counterfeit money

the_pen_turner · 06-10-2021 3:26pm #1

another thread made me think if this. someone is stealing their post and any money that is in it.

what is the law around counterfeit money. is it ilegal to have or send to yourself in the post .

obviously using it as money would be illegal but is walking around with it in your wallet illegal.

Pataman · 06-10-2021 7:44pm

AFAIK its illegal to be in possession of counterfeit money, regardless of your intentions.

Jim_Hodge · 06-10-2021 8:02pm

If you are in possession of counterfeit money you are obliged to submit it to your local financial institution, the Gardaí, or the Central Bank’s National Analysis Centre (NAC).

06-10-2021 8:13pm

35.—(1) A person who has in his or her custody or under his or her control any thing which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or coin, intending either—

( a) to pass or tender it as genuine, or

( b) to deliver it to another with the intention that that person or any other person shall pass or tender it as genuine,

is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person who, without lawful authority or excuse, has in his or her custody or under his or her control any thing which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or coin is guilty of an offence.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding—

( a) in the case of an offence under subsection (1), 10 years, or

( b) in the case of an offence under subsection (2), 5 years,

or both.

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act

beachhead · 06-10-2021 8:24pm

Yes,walking around with it in your possession is illegal whether you intend to pass it or not.With one note you could probably bluff your way out of prosecution.Two notes and it's slam dunk with a search warrant following you home.Using the postal services for illegal purposes would be a seperate offence

Jeremy Sproket · 06-10-2021 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985774#Comment_117985774

What if you receive it as change in a shop?

Will you be reimbursed when you hand it to the Garda or is it a case of tough shít?

beachhead · 06-10-2021 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986075#Comment_117986075

It's tough I'm afraid unless you're still at the counter when you spot it. With guards-no refund/replacement and maybe a helpful hand on the shoulder while you provide details.

Jim_Hodge · 06-10-2021 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986075#Comment_117986075

No reimbursement is given.

the_pen_turner · 06-10-2021 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985816#Comment_117985816

at what point does 'monopoly money' turn into counterfeit money.

if i made a 20 euro note by scanning a real on and putting berties head on it would it be counterfeit . it would be obvious to anyone that looked at it that is wasnt real

Lenar3556 · 06-10-2021 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985774#Comment_117985774

Does such an obligation apply to any individual? Do you have the source?

tks

L1011 · 06-10-2021 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986183#Comment_117986183

You may have trouble scanning a banknote, depending on how new your scanners engine is.

Jim_Hodge · 07-10-2021 7:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986197#Comment_117986197

Of course it applies to an individual. Who do you think it refers to?

As for the source - here's a novel idea, if you don't accept the statement, look it up for yourself.

magicbastarder · 07-10-2021 7:30am

'why officer, that cocaine was just sitting in my wallet but it's not for consumption so it's not illegal'.

07-10-2021 8:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986679#Comment_117986679

The onus is typically on the person making the claim to provide a source. I'm not aware of any legal obligation requiring someone to submit counterfeit money to an authority, I don't see any mention of it in the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act

Lenar3556 · 07-10-2021 8:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986679#Comment_117986679

There are particular statutory obligations applying to specified persons and bodies - typically financial institutions. One example would be the retention of counterfeit currency if produced by a member of the public. The same obligation wouldn’t apply to your local shop or members of the general public for example.

I wasn’t aware of any statutory requirement on someone in possession of a counterfeit bank note to ‘hand it in’ so to speak and was wondering if you had a particular insight - I’m gathering the answer to that is no, other the piece you copied from the central bank website.

Lenar3556 · 07-10-2021 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986736#Comment_117986736

Possession of cocaine is an offence (in a wallet or otherwise). Consumption isn’t.

magicbastarder · 07-10-2021 8:43am

kinda hard to consume something you don't have in your possession though.

Jim_Hodge · 07-10-2021 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986934#Comment_117986934

It's covered in the Central Bank regulations. See Centralbank.ie

07-10-2021 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987369#Comment_117987369

Where in the regulations?

Lenar3556 · 07-10-2021 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987369#Comment_117987369

It’s not - and in any case the central bank’s role in this is limited to regulating the activities of certain financial institutions. Not Joe Public which is why I made the distinction. There is quite a difference.

GM228 · 07-10-2021 10:24am

It is not written into any laws who an ordinary person must hand counterfeit currency to contrary to what is stated on their website, that only applies to "designated persons" which does not include any ordinary Joe, however, as already pointed out it is a criminal offence for any person (without lawful authority or excuse) to have custody of or be in your control any counterfeit currency.

Basically the law does not state what you as an ordinary person must do with it, but you can't keep it without lawful authority or excuse.

mickdw · 07-10-2021 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211963/counterfeit-money

If the plan is to send counterfeit to yourself in the hope that thief will get it, that is a silly idea.

They will likely just pass it in payment for something given that they are scummy to begin with.

the_pen_turner · 11-10-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987534#Comment_117987534

I was wondering that yes but not recommending it. Just wondering g the legalities of it. .

The idea being that the thief would be caught

Claw Hammer · 11-10-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986140#Comment_117986140

The shop is in breach of contract in giving fake currency instead of real currency.

Jim_Hodge · 11-10-2021 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005318#Comment_118005318

Good luck going back to a shop after the fact and proving they gave you counterfeit currency.

Claw Hammer · 11-10-2021 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005363#Comment_118005363

Proving something is a different matter to the legal position.

Peregrinus · 12-10-2021 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005318#Comment_118005318

Maybe, but the guards are not going to reimburse you for the shop's breach of contract.

You can recover from the shop but, as already noted, you will have considerable evidential problems establishing the facts that entitle you to recover.

BorneTobyWilde · 12-10-2021 1:00am

China produces perfect Euro notes. So identical the banks or anyone else can't tell the difference, either can the place that makes the real notes.

Peregrinus · 12-10-2021 1:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007302#Comment_118007302

Where are you reading this?

BorneTobyWilde · 12-10-2021 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007303#Comment_118007303

I saw a program on BBC about it a few years ago, even their experts couldn't tell the difference.

BorneTobyWilde · 12-10-2021 1:06am

Germany accepted 6 million from China in fake notes, it's just they couldn't tell they were fake as they were identical.

BorneTobyWilde · 12-10-2021 1:15am

What one man can do another can do

What one machine can make, another can make.

I know there are lots of crude silly fake notes, but China makes identical notes, according to BBC banks and businesses are flooded with fake Chinese Euro notes, but you'll never know you have it, and you'll always be able to spend it.

Jim_Hodge · 12-10-2021 7:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005373#Comment_118005373

Try proving in court where you got a dodgy note. Not a hope and a costly exercise.

12-10-2021 8:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007302#Comment_118007302

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007305#Comment_118007305

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007307#Comment_118007307

Source for any of this? Actual links, not vague memories. Searches for relevant terms hasn't turned up anything

GM228 · 12-10-2021 8:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007302#Comment_118007302

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007305#Comment_118007305

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007307#Comment_118007307

You have that all wrong, the issue in Germany was a scam where genuine damaged or life expired Euro coins were removed from circulation and sold for scrap in China, except they were not scrapped, about €6M worth were repaired and returned to banks and exchanged for notes at face value, can't find a link for it but I do remember it well, was about 15 years ago I think.