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78% of all new cars sold in Norway are pure electric

  • 05-10-2021 7:55pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    We're obviously a few years behind but even in Ireland everybody now knows it's coming soon, literally everyone I talk to say that they will have an EV for their next car or the one after that

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,366 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Not pure EV though I'd guess.

    Majority will be hybrids. Most people I speak to aren't ready for full ev yet.

    If say it'll be a decade before 78% of new cars will be full ev in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,921 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Hellrazer


    Id agree - theres still a lot of range anxiety out there - well the people I speak to in our dealership anyway.

    Most feel hybrid will be their next rather than pure EV.

    I do however feel that the government need to do more to encourage pure EV ownership - better grants etc...but sure now theyre talking about reducing grants for EV - typical of this country really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 72,876 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    What did they do with all their old ICE cars?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,585 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    The sales in ev in Norway was precipitated by substantial financial incentives. Those are being withdrawn soon by by now it's too late to go back. IC is soon to be banned.

    Heard a report on it last week



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    People may SAY their next car is electric but a visit to this forum quickly points out the not fit for purpose public charging infrastructure, for many that will prevent an EV purchase



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭ embraer170


    Actually no, the 75+% is pure electric. If you include plug in hybrids, the figure is closer to 85-90%!


    With most Irish people living in houses with their own driveways, it is probably easier for us to go electric than people in many other European countries. The Irish for the most part also do less very long distance than mainland Europeans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,366 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I meant the majority in Ireland will be hybrids, in response to Unkels comment.

    I wasn't chatting about Norway's sales figures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    I think a boatload of Tesla 3 and Y came in from China and that distorts the figures somewhat but EVs are well beyond the tipping point now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,921 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw


    IMO the subsidies aren't really that helpful. All they're doing is increasing margin for the manufacturers. Keeping the price of EVs up allows them to keep petrol/diesels higher as well. There's no reason for EVs to cost what they do as it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭ Buddy Bubs


    Next car for me PHEV, after that we will see. Either 530 bmw or audi a6. I'll still do most of motoring Monday to Friday electric. And if it dips into the petrol engine, so be it.

    It's not range anxiety at all with me, it's the choice of electric car available doesn't appeal to me. Nothing out there to compare to a big comfy saloon like the ones I mentioned above. Will change in time of course.

    If the government make them undesirable to drive from taxation point of view, that's when the real value will kick in. Might even pick up a cracker of a 3 litre diesel at bargain basement cost then too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭ innrain


    Here is Ireland. Engine types across the years since 2007. New cars only

    few yeasr? I'd say more than 5. Considering both HEVs and PHEVs are on upward trend and treated equal from taxation point of view with BEVs, imminent removal of most incentives, there will be very little push to go "full electric". Maybe the fuel price. Just passed by Ballymun Circke K and saw petrol @ 1.61&1.69/l. That's 100km for someone on night tariff.

    Interesting to see how the recession and taxation flipped the fuel mix in 2008- 2011. Unfortunately there is so much FUD. Like to 1.2bn for 100k EVs vehiculated in media. It first appeared on a SEAI report, with the note that the figures were calculated based on 2019 incentives which now changed. Figures which were wrong anyway. All media outlets use this figure as what gov is using to fund the "green cars". When motor tax changed in 2008, there was a drop for a TDI Passat from 600+ to about 200 a year. Who complained? The EV is taxed @120 which is just less that a 100 quid from a Diesel. Everyone shouts about "loss in revenue". Really? This coupled with the hesitant policies would stall the momentum and if nothing changes 40% is max we can ever dream to. I want to be proven wrong.



  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,031 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Is the Irish Times article the reason why people think they are going too remove the incentives on EVs? Or has there been anything concrete?



  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ Busman Paddy Lasty


    "Like to 1.2bn for 100k EVs vehiculated in media. It first appeared on a SEAI report, with the note that the figures were calculated based on 2019 incentives which now changed. Figures which were wrong anyway. All media outlets use this figure as what gov is using to fund the "green cars". "


    Those articles were a disgrace and shows up the state of the media. The Taycan buyer was effectively getting a rebate of their own money being robbed through VRT. VRT which covered the SEAI grant by a long shot.

    0% VRT for cars with 0g CO2 would be a proper incentive without the use of grants that can be twisted by the media into a narrative of da gubberment buying Taycans for the illuminati.



  • Registered Users Posts: 980 ✭✭✭ denismc


    2 government papers have been produced this year that give opposing viewpoints.

    The first one is from the department of Finance and is called "Climate Action and Tax Paper Tax Strategy Group – 21/09". Sorry I can't post the link directly but on page 35 it recommends consideration be given to capping VRT relief on vehicles upto 30k.

    The other paper is from the department of Transport and is called "Electric Vehicle Policy Pathway Working Group Report 2021" it recommends continuing funding for VRT relief upto the end of 2022, funding permitting!

    There seems to be an expectation from some car dealers that the VRT relief will be reduced.

    Post edited by denismc on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Are we still talking about targets?

    How about these two?

    Any advance on 250?

    350!

    Any advance on 350?

    1,000,000? Is that you Eamon?

    OK, 1,000,000 it is............

    1,000,000 shiny new electric cars, parked outside the 400,000 shiny new houses you're gonna build, alongside that shiny, new & cheap airport rail link, the one near the new children's hospital.........

    Fairytale land 🙄.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Hybrid and phev are not the way to go. Laser discs of the car world. Upcoming regulation will render these engine types no better than ice and some manufacturers like skoda have already said they won't develop any more (and likely are planning phasing out what they have) they know which way the wind is blowing.


    Range is an issue for an ever smaller % of people so fewer blockers. Price and availability are biggest challenges. The vast majority couldn't afford to switch as the proliferation of 2nd hand cars is still too low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    A tesla model 3 sr+ costs 32K in the USA, in Ireland almost 49K, the LR+ 43,209 Euro's. in Ireland 58.9K

    That's a lot of tax, easy money for the Government, is it really a bad idea to reduce this tax on electrics ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The base Model 3 is $42k in the USA, which is €36k

    Unfortunately, because Ireland is part of the EU, there is no way of not applying 10% import duty (as the car comes from outside of the EU) and VAT (Ireland set that to 23%) over the cost of the car incl import duty and shipping costs. Unless we do our own moronic Irexit 🤣

    So if Tesla set the same base price for here, even with zero VRT (the only choice this country has apart from lowering the general VAT rates), the car would cost ((€36k + 10%) + €1k shipping and insurance cost) * 123% = €50k

    So in fact we are subsidising the car (apart from the taxes we have to apply)!

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭ Sabre Man


    Teslas will hopefully get cheaper in Europe once Giga Berlin opens.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭ SupplyandDemandZone


    I suppose i'll be forced to buy one but i'll be holding out as long as possible. Electric cars are completely out of most working class peoples price range unfortunately right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    They will charge what the market will bear just like Porsche on any Macan or any other manufacturer with a high margin product.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel



    Not that nonsense again. 5 years ago I bought a brand new family size EV for the same price as Skoda Octavia diesel. A budget family car. Only recently I bought another family size EV second hand for a touch over €2k. This car costs less to own than a banger petrol or diesel car that someone gives you for free. Unaffordable my arse.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I always find Norway a strange example, given it’s the largest exporter of gas and oil in Europe other than Russia, but I suppose a high uptake of EVs will offset their consciences even if it’s a drop in the ocean of CO2 they’re ultimately responsible for producing.

    For some strange reason fossil fuel energy exports aren’t included in countries’ carbon emissions, like everything else.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Why would exports of fuel be included in a country's emissions? Where it eventually is burnt is where the emissions are released, so that's where they are included.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭ SupplyandDemandZone




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why include exports of anything else in emissions then? Your Chinese electronics are ultimately used by you, not someone on China? Your Irish butter is being consumed by some hipster in NY, and so on … emission costs for production of those fall heavily on the producer and exporter.

    The producing country benefits enormously from those emissions, but washes its hands of them when it comes to oil, gas etc anyway.

    I just find it an odd system.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel



    Apologies, did not mean to be rude. But you might appreciate we do get sick of these "pub talk" arguments that are completely false but keep being regurgitated by a large number of people as "the truth". This holds back the uptake of EVs significantly and totally unnecessarily. Both your wallet and the planet are losing out here.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would say the biggest likely dampener to uptake this year will be the coverage of potential issues with electricity supply here. I know two people who’ve gone with hybrids instead of EV because of uncertainty around warnings of possible power issues by Eirgrid

    We’ve talked the talk with EVs and then put in inadequate charging infrastructure and now we’ve potential power issues for the next few years.

    The offshore wind projects here for example have been far too slow compared to say Denmark or the U.K.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ Cdemess


    I can’t buy one, as I live in an area with on street parking only.



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