Marriage in trouble

francie81

Hi,

I would have put posted here a number of months ago of how my marriage was in difficulty over a relocation from the countryside to city centre with my wife and 3 young kids much to my opposition of this.

Me and my wife have had many confrontations over this to the point I would usually run out feeling communication on such issues was bad I know it’s not the answer. At end of June it got so bad she told me to leave and went back to the home house (where my sister is looking after my sick mom) the area where we originally moved from and also my job. One of my sons birthday was coming up so we agreed not to let whatever was going on with a get in the way of it so I went there for it with a present from my sister only for my wife to refuse to accept it by ripping the card and throwing the present which I reacted to (maybe I shouldn’t have) to the point an argument broke out and as distraught as I was I left hurting my elbow as my wife attempted to stop me (probably knowing I would go back there), I called my sister to tell her am coming and what just happened before going to hospital to have elbow checked, my sister in turn naturally responded to my wife angrily by text.

Couple days later I hear from the cops that a protection order was taken out against me well my heart sunk and all communication shut off from my kids at the same time, wheb the dust settled I attempted to make contact alternatively with no reply so I tried her brother of how I wanted to see my kids and all of a sudden I get a call ironically asking me to come back and that she never wanted to take the protection order out against me because she knows am not the violent type and only done it because of feeling threatened by my family, anyway I didn’t go back despite her kind of demanding me to do so, with my own 40th birthday looming she used this to lure me back which I did and I have being since.

So to the point the weekend just past everything was good up until sat night when the whole location crept in again because more kids was mentioned and as of now I was shutting the door on this idea because of where we are now and although I was trying to make the best of it for now but non forever as the way she put it and to hell what I think or want, come sunday was actually a good day proper homely family day it’s as though nothing was said until that evening she asks when am I leaving since I was showing towards her of my discontent of long term city life in an apartment, this turned sour from then (her mom who is currently staying) tried to get an understanding of the argument and asked me why I want to leave here after 2/3 years, this has being causing a big rift within the marriage, anyway as I tried to break up the exchange knowing it wasn’t going anywhere I went to the room and was followed there as both her mom tried asking me what was the problem and it just all boiled over to the point I told them to get out and I didn’t mean to be rude I just didn’t want to get into it, I was then accused of abusing her mom which was not the case, as this went on she tells me to leave I refused and stood my ground that’s when she used the protection order to her advantage to have me removed and I ended up being taken out spending the night in a prison cell and into court the next morning I have never felt as demoralized in all my life someone who had never got on the wrong side of the law, this to me was really unforgivable stuff and I know now I can’t go back there.

I recall one day I called into my moms after work where my sister would have being there and when I told my wife when I got back there was war firstly because she does not want me interacting with my siblings ie sister and secondly I did run it by her I was calling there, is this controlling?

People have being telling me this till they are blue in the face but it seems like I keep doubting myself. Everytime we argue usually my family come into it and she also feels both my sisters are obsessed with her in the way she tries to live.

I have written a lot here just to try and give an understanding of what am involved in and now that this has happened me I feel that am going to concentrate and seek therapy to build myself up because perhaps I could be a victim of emotional abuse?

Thanks for reading

Take legal advice which will either protect you if the relationship ends or guide you to some sort of solution which protects what remains of your relationship.

Has alocohol/addiction of any kind been involved in either party?

qwerty13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952446#Comment_117952446

I don’t think this is good advice. I think it will just wind things up several notches in terms of conflict - and it feels a bit like using the kids as pawns, which is never right.

It seems like you react very strongly to your wife OP. I don’t know whether you’re reacting emotionally, or with anger. Is there a pattern of you shouting at her? If so, I can understand why she wants a protection order.

I remember your previous thread, and I found the elbow incident dodgy tbh. It came across to me that you injured yourself through an emotional/angry outburst, and pushed past your wife (and I’m describing that kindly).

I think it’s abundantly clear that the relationship is dead in the water. What your focus should be on is your kids, and how both you and your wife can behave civilly towards each other and co-parent.

Professional help would be a good idea to figure out why you don’t seem to be able to regulate your emotions / reactions. And stop involving your family in this. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in a foreign country, in a failed relationship, and being verbally attacked by my Ex’s family.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952527#Comment_117952527

There has being high pitched voices alright on both sides. Also there was a time she told my oldest son to tell me to leave.

Your right of course saying not to involve family members in our marital affairs and it should be only be between us both, however I only went to my moms since I had nowhere else to go and my sister made amends of some sort with a hug to her (for that heat of the moment attack) when we all went to my moms house sometime after.

I know I may have anger issues to the point I react to her and am promising myself NOW to deal with this as a last ditch in saving my marriage but she should also recognize her own problem like insecurity issues which she isn’t it’s not always one sided when this happens.

Using a protection order just to have me removed only because I stood my ground is not good and having me there months up to that hardly looks good.

Hannibal_Smith

OP, I know you are having your own bad time, but there are children in the middle of all of this watching it all implode.

Did you seek legal advice or any kind of outside help? This has gone long beyond being able for the two of you to figure out. You're both not capable of doing it without help.

To me it sounds like the marriage is long over and moving on is what you both should be focusing on. If not that then some sort of help to get you both discussing things without it exploding.

You can't have the kids living in the middle of all of this and you both can't keeping going the way you are. It's good for no one, regardless of the small glimmers of happiness you might be getting. Nothing has changed since your last thread. You need to get legal advice and/or professional help in dealing with conflict between you both.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952446#Comment_117952446

Worst advice possible.

Gardai tend to believe the woman no matter what. You can have all the proof in the world and the gardai will believe the woman.

Gardai don't believe women can dole out emotional and physical abuse.

So antagonising the situation where she can make all sorts of unfounded claims is just dreadful advice.

Op, you cannot win this as it stands. You are young and she is abusive.

Prepare for separation be both in the real sense (takes time) and emotionally (quicker), get a solicitor, keep a diary and meet with your GP. If it's her gp too, that's better as they will have an understanding of the situation.

But, the marriage is gone and you have to accept that and look at options for visitation rights and reconnection with your siblings

First about the relationship with your wife. It's over. Get legal advice to protect you and then move on from that.

Re-route all your energy towards your kids. They are being damaged here and won't forgive you if they have to live through this for much longer.

Good luck.

TheadoreT

Your writing is very incoherent and difficult to follow. Hard to gauge the level of violence you used against her but if you hurt yourself doing so there must have been plenty of force involved. You seem to be downplaying this aspect of the story when it's really the crux. She's probably terrified of you. Labelling yourself as a victim feels worrying as you're almost justifying your violence.

Anger councilling must be your first port of call. You won't have a leg to stand on here if this goes through the courts as it stands. At least try to present a case you're seeking help for your issues.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952754#Comment_117952754

With regards to my elbow incident it happened as I tried to leave at a time I could not take her being in my face as distraught as I was, I tried holding my 5 year old at the same time as it was his birthday when he was in tears and she thought I was taking him away bizarrely to my family it was more a case of being so emotional of what had just happened all because I reacted to her not accepting my sisters birthday present to him.

Someone also mentioned Gardai usually take the woman’s side however when they brought me in the prison cell they asked how long have you being there since the order was taken out and I said 3 months both just shook there head and said you need one yourself because I suspect it’s not just you and if you keep going back it will happen again which will look bad on you with the judge.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952837#Comment_117952837

You're downplaying and excusing your actions again. What damage did you do to her with the elbow? Orders aren't just given on she said /he said. There must have been physical injuries or an admission of guilt on your behalf.

And I'd take what the guards told you in prison with a pinch of salt. Just because someone takes you back it doesn't mean they aren't afraid of you or the order wasn't justified. Victims of violence regularly find it very difficult to break free from that cycle of abuse.

And even if you're right as you suggest that there's a pair of you in it where does the kids wellbeing come into all of this? This whole thing must be traumatising for them and you don't seem close to being at a place to discuss how to part with as little further disruption for them as possible.

francie81

Also as many have being saying here to seek the help required which I intend to but if she is not willing to recognize perhaps her own behaviour that she may not even aware she is even doing it well then it’s only going to go one way.

Jequ0n

This is a seamless continuation of your last thread. Nothing has changed and both of you are so focussed on your own agenda that you do not even consider the damage you are doing to your children.

What’s the point in ruminating whether your wife is abusive? Nobody here can tell because her story of events probably sounds very different to yours. All we can see here is utter chaos and a group of adults (i include your family members) who are incapable of sorting out their problems. And stylising yourself as the victim in all this will not help either.

I am not judging you for being selfish, as I’d be a hypocrite. But it is frankly embarrassing to read how you both use your children as pawns whilst playing victim cards.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952928#Comment_117952928

I can barely remember but I somehow banged it off the door or door surround not knowing until I noticed a lump appearing afterwards and of course it’s not like she physically done it and I was never going to use this as way of gaining advantage, and am by no means violent and if you read carefully in my OP where I mentioned that she only took the order out as a way for of protection from my own family rather than me and that I know your not that type hence why I was back despite it being in place, yet look what happened in the end.

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952837#Comment_117952837

Your son will never forget how his parents destroyed his birthday. Time to put your kids first, they will be damaged for life if they keep having to witness this turmoil. If the only way to have peace is through separation then that needs to happen.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952958#Comment_117952958

Am not stylising myself as the victim and your right about the welfare of the kids and nothing has changed and in fact I should have never went back to begin with but as I’ve saying I can am prepared to seek the support needed as I really would prefer not to go down the road of a separation/divorce.

I recall being in work couple weeks ago when I got a call from her which I could not take but for some strange reason it kept coming up busy her end even tho I wasn’t on a call so she automatically accused me of talking to my family.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953049#Comment_117953049

Your opening post literally asked whether you're a victim here.

Honestly the whole thread is very hard to follow. It's contradictory, full of half truths and just extremely haphazard. I'm unsure whether there's alcohol or other substances involved but if you're going to try to fight your cause on this you need to really work on clarity of expression.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953104#Comment_117953104

No alcohol abuse or anything of the sort and your right I probably could worded it in a better way but one thing for sure is I need to concentrate on working on myself step by step.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952653#Comment_117952653

I have went to see a my GP and subsequently a psychiatrist straight after, I have also being in touch phone to phone with Pieta.

Jequ0n

Why is it that you can barely remember how you hurt your elbow?

Believe me, I have my own anger management issues but I have never forgotten how I caused/ received an unjury unless I was off my face. On the other hand there are plenty of times when I claimed I couldn’t remember to get off the hook.

Time to be honest to yourself and take some action instead of talking about how you realise you need to do something.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953207#Comment_117953207

When I say I can’t really recall how my elbow got the impact it’s not my way of trying to hide what may look like the obvious so stop trying to insinuate a situation that was not actually the case.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953242#Comment_117953242

I am not insinuating anything. I asked you a question because your whole account sounds questionable.

Why you’d want to make this work is beyond me as it’s clear that neither of you even like each other. But each to their own. Best of luck

Francie81, you're really glossing over everything that was said in the previous thread, including that your wife felt racially abused by your family, and you basically ignored her needs for ten years, after she moved here from another country for you and you knew she wanted to live somewhere other than rural Louth.

Which tells me you really haven't learnt anything or taken on board any of the advice you were given in that previous thread .

The marriage is over. Time to do what needs to be done to formalise the separation, with kids front and centre.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953338#Comment_117953338

Actually no I was in fact giving this relocation a proper go (but not forever in my head) but it was when the whole thing of more kids was mentioned that triggered it all, and with how she didn’t feel happy where she was and that a relocation to the city was the be all and end all is questionable from what I observed despite me going with it.

fitzparker

Why the different threads, You got 50 pieces of advise in the last one, and then a new one set up (with half the info from the first left out) are you trying to validate your right?

if the first one didn't work why this one?

This isn't a sitcom, posters aren't savoring the moment for you to write back, in no way can replying to everyone and getting all there opinions will this help you.

my two cents - Sounds like this is both your first partner.... you met once, you married through lust not love and had a child just as quick. you were close to 30 having a child, your wife was 20.

regardless she never got to experience a new life as a married wife, exploring, adjusting to Ireland, as soon as she came her she was a pregnant/mother. Stuck in a house in a foreign country. Now everything is unraveling, she see's she might have potential and looks like she is blaming you as she is 30 and nothing to show form it.

I am not defending either of you, one is using the kids the other sounds like he is trying to rally an army of boards friends, both wrong.

You need professional advise and not deviate from it, Doctor Google doesn't help.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953533#Comment_117953533

Agree with a lot of what’s in there and to be fair much of that advice given then is what am doing now when it really should of being then which I accept was wrong on my part.

mohawk

I don’t know which of ye is the worst culprit in this situation. It’s possible she baits you and you respond and it’s also possible you over react to things. None of that matters. What matters is the children. My ex can be a d**k and loved saying things to me that are hurtful and spiteful. However, I do not react to it in front of our son and rarely react to it when our son can’t witness it. Now it’s not easy to rise above it especially when you are being forced to listen to blatant lies and manipulation, however I think of the long term relationship with my son.

Get help managing your emotions OP and protect your children from all this drama as best you can. Long term it will benefit your relationship with them. Get a solicitor as it’s unlikely the two of you can agree on access etc. It is unlikely your marriage can be saved but if you work on yourself then it will benefit the children.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953640#Comment_117953640

I get that you can relate to my situation and your right, thanks very much for the input.

ahappychappy

You both sound like ye need to grow up! There are kids watching their parents - their reference for all relationships in their life act like toddlers! Keep the kids out of it. Access counselling for yourself to try tease out tools to help you deal with the situation. Look into mediation with your wife to agree a co-parenting plan. And for the love of all that is good - stop being in each others company around your kids - they dont deserve this and it is doing harm to them it will impact on their lives, their education and their behaviour - someone has to step up and stop the cycle - be that person. Your wife can either join you in prioritising the kids or not - but if you stop the reaction and engaging in the behaviours then the kids will be better off.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954117#Comment_117954117

100% agree and I have hinted this many a time that we don’t have to be enemies when it’s about the kids if whatever we have is not working.

ahappychappy

Stop hinting - communicate clearly - there is a lot of you said she thinks and vice versa. Step back and step up. She can join you or not but if someone doesnt engage it cant escalate. There is a five year old out there who could be thinking it is my fault because it happened on their birthday. Get the tools you need and sort yourself out - it is the piece in this situation you have control over.

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955729#Comment_117955729

Again thanks very much for that I guess that protection order was the kick up the ass I needed as unpleasant or unwarranted as it felt.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955787#Comment_117955787

Why do you feel this was a kick up the arse and what have you done about it since?

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956177#Comment_117956177

Well because I kept going back with nothing changing whereas this time that won’t be happening and can’t happen at least until I begin to find myself with the therapy I need and that way I know it is a stepping stone needed in a last ditch chance in saving my marriage. Does that answer your question?

Jequ0n

Serious lack of punctuation in the evening again.

So you started therapy. Why don’t you run all of this by your therapist instead of a forum? If they advise you to stay put for now it’s probably a good idea. People here might disrupt everything.

Big Bag of Chips

JequOn, if you can't comment or offer advice without mentioning someone's grammar or punctuation then please don't.

As always there are kinder ways to deal with people who come looking for advice or opinion in this forum. I suggest all posters consider their reply and posting style before replying in Personal Issues.

SunnySundays

I remember your other thread. Both you and your wife have both behaved poorly at times and it looks like there is fault on both sides. Apportioning blame to either of you or determine who is the main problem is actually irrelevant.

The position is that you cannot function as a couple for numerous reasons and despite several attempts to convince yourself otherwise, this is 100% the case. Arguments, fights, restraining others, the guards etc. The situation is pure toxic and cannot be reconciled given so much has happened.

Your priority needs to be your kids. It must be miserable as hell for them to be exposed to this. Continue the way you are both going and you will cause your children a huge amount of problems and damage your relationship with them. They may even end up similar relationships themselves in future full of toxic behaviour if it's all they have known. Do you not want better for them?

Give up on your marriage. It's over.

Focus on your stability and behaviour.

Get good legal advice.

Get good counselling to deal with this.

Put your children's welfare and happiness to the forefront of everything you do from now on.

What you need is to focus on how is co-patenting successfully and ensuring that you have access to your kids and are a positive influence in their lives. This should be your primary focus from now on. Who knows you and your wife may reconcile in time, you might not but it's not possible at the moment given the toxicity in the relationship.

Kids first, everything else is secondary.

trish65

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210895/marriage-in-trouble

OP I feel bad for your situation. But to put it politely you have brought this upon yourself by acting childish and completely selfish because of a move what I can see is things escalated very quickly since your previous thread that you have mentioned.

as someone said you are glossing everything including your wife being racially abused by your family. So to put it in summary you married a girl who was 10 years younger than you brought her to rural part of Ireland during which time she got pregnant and followed your rules; She stayed there for 10 years and her family helped you financially. Yet you and your family who were supposed to welcome her and support her sent her angry messages (abusive) during her time there and racially abused her. If I’m not wrong on your son’s birthday you and your wife had a fight over your sister’s present and you ran out instead of talking to your wife calmly for the sake of marriage and your 5 year old’s birthday; to make matters worse your sister started abusing your wife on her sons birthday. I can feel there is a lot of racism the way your wife has been treated by your family; you didn’t only involve your family but used them to harass her when you should have safeguarded her. Please keep your family away from your wife and kids; I’d lose it if I was in my husband’s country and was constantly abused by his friends or family.

Your elbow injury seems suspectful to play the victim. It seems to me you are not here looking for an advice but sympathies..It’s time you man up and get professional help. Apologize to your wife and fix your marriage with marriage counselling. Put your kids first and stop discussing your marriage with friends and family as they seem to make matters worse. You and your wife need marriage counselling since there are kids involved I assume your 5 year old being the youngest

francie81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346499#Comment_118346499

Oh please will ya cut out your anti men sentiment if you only knew and if I was looking for sympathies I wouldn’t be looking for advice in trying to save it as in my first thread with a girl not a woman who has taken out a protection order then tells me she never wanted to knowing I wasn’t the violent type (on the phone) but rather because of my family who she accuses of being racist btw you do know many people who play the race card use it for there own personal gain it’s called abuse of the word racism, the same girl takes to a forum accusing me of all sorts beyond belief wanting everybody there to feed her and more damning seeking advice on escaping with my kids, I have a phone full of emotional abuse using the kids as a weapon in the process, blocking me unblocking wanting me out wanting me back it’s relentless. You also touched on how I brought a girl here got her pregnant blah blah blah as though am living in old rural Ireland as some idiot referred to in response to my first thread I mean come on.

I will also put you straight about the relocation which I happened to be keeping the sunny side out in giving it a chance as per good advice in my OP however I got my ultimate answer well before time and at this stage where we settled is irrelevant when there is other issues and this just happened to trigger them.

Did you ever hear of controlling in a relationship from a mans point of view? I can give you an example where I come home an hour later than usual as a result of calling in to see my mom well actually it was seen as going to see my sister whom am not suppose to talk to which subsequently led to a full blown argument no man or woman deserve such treatment.

It’s absolutely imperative for both to be happy in a relationship and have a deep understanding of each other and maybe counselling could be the breakthrough needed.

Yes your right it’s all about the kids now since the relationship remains at a standstill.

trish65

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362899#Comment_118362899

By far I am not anti-men;; You seem to contradict yourself in your each new post on this forum; you mentioned that you were resenting your wife therefore making it a living hell for yourself and her; Nobody has been in your situation we only conclude from what you have said that she felt racially abused by your family members was there something said that you ignored? now you are giving this story another version making your wife the villain… OP why do you react so strongly towards your wife; I bet if you handled the situation calmly the end would have been better;; You mentioned your sister sending your wife angry message it’s probably a natural reaction for her to keep them away since your marriage is drawning and there are small children involved;; Would your family members break their home if you insulted their spouse?? she might blame them for marriage failure! I don’t see a controlling side to this it’s usually in-laws not getting on which is fixable keeping in mind boundaries aren’t crossed next time. Although I agree with you about her blocking you that’s not the answer;; you both need to have a mature conversation before it’s too late. Don’t accuse each other just ask what can be done to fix it;; It’s easier for her to block walking away is the easiest thing to do staying is harder but worth it.

At the end of the day she did leave her country for you, give the city another shot and convince her to move somewhere that would suit you both in few years time; nothing has changed even worse you are blaming the girl more than ever before;; If this goes to court it would be her word against yours. Did you both agree with couples therapy? You need to make up your mind instead of letting the marriage rot;; If she is being the immature one by not willing to communicate you should be the bigger person and have a deep conversation with her (keeping your family out of it and request her to not discuss them) this should be only about you both.

sporina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952837#Comment_117952837

gee your poor child.. I hope you are sorting yourself out.. but the kids should be No. 1 - behaviour like this can damage a child for life

and ye need to separate/divorce - no coming back from this I'd say, no matter where you live

So now you're accusing your wife of "playing the race card for personal gain"?

Francie, what has become more and more obvious over all your threads is that your loyalty lies with your family of origin, not with your wife. You defend them over her, every time.

If you truly believe your wife is the type of evil manipulative woman you've been trying to paint a picture of in this thread, then why are you even trying to save this marriage? Shouldn't you want to get out of being married to someone so nasty?

For the sake of everyone's happiness, call and end to this now before you both mess up the kids any further.

spaceHopper

Getting angry about it is natural but its not helping you. My advice to you would be to work on yourself, get counseling to help make sense if what is happing to you. Lawyer up, you will need one.

Eventually she will want something from you, tell her due to the protection order you can't espicall after been arrested and before the courts - that needs to be finished by the courts, she started it but she can't stop it. Even if she did she would only do it again. Let that play our build your own case to show she was wrong and abusive. You will have contact with her for the kids and them alone.

Don't get sucked back in, don't go back to her and don't have more kids, get the snip.

If you ever find yourself cornered by her or her and family again. Don't go to a room, go for walk (keep a coat in your car), a drive, tea or coffer in a cafe, not the pub that will blow up on you.

Kingkong

Francie;

You need to get smart here. Keep going to way you are and you wont have anything in a few years. She has you by the b*lls.

My advice is simple.

1. Get her alone no family
2. Get her to agree to counselling
3. Get her to agree to have the kids visit you on your own
4. Don't ever stay in the apartment on your own
5. Get a notepad and write every interaction down and date it

francie81

Well am delighted to say all is good I guess I presented my wife in a way I shouldn’t have the fact we spent the last several years happy together and just because of one relocation issue that brought it to what it was also exposing our affairs to my sisters and running to them (whom I always felt has a disliking/jealousy towards my wife from the outset) just made matters worse, being able to sit down and talk is the most effective way of solving anything.

anndub

I think listening was your problem Francie, you hadn't done a lot of it. I hope your wife is feeling heard and supported now too

spaceHopper

She had you arrested! From the sound of it she is only happy so long as you do what she or her mother wants and s soon as you cross them all hell breaks out. It also sounds like she is isolating you from your family. What happened to the house she was buying? Be careful that she isn't faking your signature. Id'd get something in writing witnessed by a solicitor that its her mortgage.