How to fix the traveller community

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945036#Comment_117945036

This is a thread about the problem of travellers not the wider community.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945089#Comment_117945089

The thread is about "fixing the travellers", yet the issue been brought up are not just with that community. So as I said people shouldnt be focusing on "fixing the traveller" who are 0.4% of the population. More on fixing the issues across Ireland and that will include the travellers.

From what I can see on here the travellers are a easy target for a lot of people, it seems every woe in the World lies at their door. Yet other sectors of Ireland have the exact same issues and I don't see thread constantly getting loaded about how to fix them.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

Fair chance we'll have an SF-led government not involving FF or FG after the next election. Do you think that would change things for the better?

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945055#Comment_117945055

Schools and education isn't the be and end all of these issues. My eldest for instance dropped out of school at 16 and now manages a business with a 6 figure salary at 23 years of age. I know loads of kids from my school days many moons ago who completed leaving certs and ended in dead end jobs or some who went on to spend years in and out of crappy jobs. The difference is many travellers do not encourage their children to better themselves on the wider aspects of life and be a contributing citizen.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

What exactly are Sinn Fein going to do to resolve the supposed issue with the traveller and the wider community in Ireland with similar problems?

Last time I read the Sinn fein manifesto the great plan was to tax the workers and give more money to this sector of society, do you think giving them more money will resolve anythign?

JP Liz V1

Are any on Turas Nua? I would echo punishment for not letting kids go to school fully, I mean on to secondary, fines or take from child benefit

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945103#Comment_117945103

The percentage of travellers who go on to contribute taxes and become useful citizens is tiny compared to the settled community.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945109#Comment_117945109

I'd say no but im willing to give them the chance after social democrats get my first vote. Unfortunately we have zero right leaning political parties in Ireland which has lead us to where we are now, we've no balance at all. FG/FF have fooled the gullible masses for years into believing they are the party of the working tax payer, they are anything but.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945119#Comment_117945119

No, it's not the be and end all but I'd argue education is one of our strongest tools to improve society. Your eldest was lucky, he/she may have worked damn hard to get where they've gotten but luck played a part: most who drop out at 16 don't do so well, particularly without having pursued an alternative form of education (i.e. an apprenticeship of some sort).

When a kid is being educated, not only are they being provided with the tools to ensure they can be a contributing citizen, they're also being exposed to social queues that may encourage them to want to better themselves (seeing classmates whose parents have done well arriving to school in nice cars, hearing about their exotic holidays etc.). Add in the influence that a good teacher can have on a kid's life and the effects can be huge.

Or to look at it another way: a person who hasn't even completed a Junior Cert will be unemployable in most industries. Regardless of work-ethic, desire to improve themselves and contribute to society etc., unless they have a Leaving Cert, a Trade or a degree they'll be relying on luck. Whether that's the luck to not only have be born with some innate talent but furthermore to get the opportunity to generate a living from it or more simply to be in the right place at the right time or be provided with the right connections via one's parents or social circle.

A Leaving Certificate doesn't qualify one for much tbh. The lack of one, however, disqualifies one from an awful lot.

(for what it's worth, I'm not looking down on those without a Leaving Cert, Mrs Sleepy never did it)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943882#Comment_117943882

A peace deal ? How about this deal... don’t break the law = don’t get arrested.

the line of law shouldn’t have an opportunity to be blurred for anyone and from anyone’s perspective.

if you break the law, regardless of who you are the consequences should be the same for everyone.

they can arrest me if I assault somebody but ‘they’ might get a ‘peace deal’...

there lies the problem...they believe they have some special status, their own rules.

NIMAN

As someone mentioned above, if they simply start doing what the rest of us do, then the problems will gradually solve themselves.

Its all abut education, education, education.

If traveller kids were sent to school every day as normal, and they were allowed to complete school to 18, and go to college like the rest of us, then they would start to blend into normal population, would start getting jobs like the rest of us, paying taxes like the rest of us, crime rates among them would decrease etc etc....and in time they will be like the rest of the working population.

Unfortunately, I think getting the kids educated as per normal looks like something that is very difficult to achieve. Through their doing, not the rest of us.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945161#Comment_117945161

This looks to me like political nihilism and self-harm. SF are proposing to do the exact opposite of what you want - a bigger state, more welfare spending.

freshpopcorn

It's something I've thought about and it's hard to know how to fix the issues.

I think firstly whatever happens it will take years to fix.

Education is important and I do feel for a lot who drop out more of a vocational accept should be added for starters.

Travellers on social media showing themselves fighting, calling each other out, wrecking stuff have caused harm.

Programs such as My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding where they say you never ask a traveller about money whilst having a big lavish wedding has had a negative effect on the community.

The previous presidential election has being mentioned with Peter Casey. I think lots of people who'd say they'd have no issues living near a halting site or even just generally people who constantly defend travellers aren't helping the community either.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

The other parties are much more determined to ramp up welfare spending

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943873#Comment_117943873

Ya i ve come across a few of the boys doing the bareknuckle in the boxing world too and they come under enormous pressure from thier own people to get involved in feuds and the that sort of neanderthal stuff , its the rare lad doesn't end up tossing a boxing career for a plastic bag of money and fight in a car park. I know a few lads play hurling at a high level too but fell to the pressure from inside the community too in the end.

Again its the majority that garnered the reputation that the minority are lumbered with but its up to the traveller community it self to fix that not the settled one. there are vast resources thrown at the problems that are just soaked up.

it also has to be said that there isnt as much as people think worth saving in traveller heritage , no offence but they haven't contributed as much as some would like you have to believe . Im all for people having their beliefs and traditions but not so much paying for them

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943876#Comment_117943876

Are you saying that you think 70 percent of travellers work in a taxable job ? and that revenue are lying about the figures ?

What do you mean it wouldn't end well for both parties involved if the laws of the lads were applied stringently to travellers ?

I think the only viable solution for the travelling community is to integrate into the settled community and live as we do. Educate your children, seek employment opportunities, live in apartments, houses etc. Become friends with the settled community, marry into the settled community. Distance yourself from the criminal elements.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946564#Comment_117946564

So in other words not be travellers anymore and become one of the “norms”?

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946644#Comment_117946644

How much does the modern traveller lifestyle match the traditional traveller culture? What differentiates travellers from people living in a disadvantaged area of Dublin?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946494#Comment_117946494

It's a criminal sub-culture nowadays

Either ripping off individuals or the state on a daily basis, that is their pursuit and goal

Education.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948183#Comment_117948183

I have no idea, I am not a traveller and I don't understand enough to make a comment on that

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

What is the alternative in reality? SF vodoo economics that would probably double welfare . PBP silver spoon socialist Narnia?

FG's abandonment of working people to cosy up to pensioners votes and a slice of the idle vote is annoying but ( ironically ) I see SF like SF see the DUP, a whining mass of grumbling fools I have nothing in common with who offer no solutions to anything.

As to the OP's questions, changing Paver Point modus operandi might be a start.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948265#Comment_117948265

Courting the pensioner vote is and has always been a key FF priority. Raising it again is a FF policy, not FG

Willie o Dea has been unofficial minister for increasing the state pension this last several years, it's about his level of cheap populism

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948183#Comment_117948183

'Traditional' traveller culture was living on the roadside in horse drawn caravans, mending pots and pans and doing manual work for farmers all of which are extinct.

Being out in all weathers, short hard lives and high infant mortality, fun times.

Why anyone would put their kids and their own health at risk living the modern version of this in a prefab or caravan these days for the sake of 'tradition' is beyond me.

Richard Hillman

Increasing CABs power to strip assets

Setting up an agency that helps travellers go into legitimate business. Offer services to do help them do the books and get through business red tape.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948415#Comment_117948415

The CAB part is happening. Look at Newbridge latest raid just last week.

Plenty of travellers in business although what percent are fully legit I don’t know. There needs to be a separation of traveller definition. Many have accountants in the town and buy huge swathes of property for rental. So clearly support is not necessary. That’s the legitimate business but where the money comes from first, nobody asks. A quick look for names on planning permission on kildare county council site will confirm this.

In my own town there are 2 types. Those with truly vast wealth, more than you can imagine, some legitimate, some CAB has begun to take. Then there is a quite family in a halting site in the same town (they genuinely choose to live there) that are poor beyond most settled poor. They need the full support of the state to educate and help them. And I have seen the dad bring his kids daily to school. He keeps clear of the other families (not related to the other ones anyway).

The problem is both of these, poor and wealthy are getting similar supports because they are travellers. We all see the injustice in this. The wealthy traveller families don’t send their kids past primary school. There is a few in the local tec but they tend not to last long. On any given day, you will see the teenage girls outside the primary school waiting to collect their brothers and sisters. That’s wrong.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941191#Comment_117941191

See your vicious cycle is some bit short you went bare foot where travellers got your second hand shoes and living in tents on the side of the road and in line of going to school travellers wasn't welcome in it and was unheard of they where busy with the woman begging for scraps and traveller men Looking for work where they can find it and in any case was worked like slaves for almost nothing and better life ? On social welfare please I have delt first hand with then sharks in the welfare office and they would let you starve with half a chance

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945785#Comment_117945785

Funny enough I agree with all of your statements and I believe that Instead of paying for free reign halting sites I believe it should be a multi contract situation in relation to fixing the problem that is offer a training apprentice and a place to live under the better contract of earn to have it. Not have it for the sake of it. And I'm a traveller and I actively avoid halting sites and there is plenty I could live in as apposed to some I would not be welcome different surname and all that. And I would never live. Beside one they should stop that program and notch it up a bit by the example I gave above just an idea what's you view on it

Dyr

Mandatory 12 year sentence for a third conviction.

Would solve all sorts of problems across the board

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945924#Comment_117945924

Foolishness that's all it is stop with the welfare and offer a sustainable educational programs with higher payment while learning then a slight higher tax payment scheme when qualified that's how it should be done.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949462#Comment_117949462

Petty charge for YouTube video call outs then charges as a crime gang with intent to harm that would stop it. I'll start another forum on it

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948415#Comment_117948415

I like it straight to the point interesting opinion fair play

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948333#Comment_117948333

It's not that hard anymore to be honest 🙂 and it's nice feeling to be part of something bigger then your self all you have to do is look back and know that you culture and ancestors has survived hundreds of years and a famine. And It's not traditional to just live in caravans ever generation has evolved with the times much more then the last. I live in a house and work since I graduate and got my leaving cert I'm a walking contradiction to the way travellers are being victimized. We are growing. We are evolving. Just that's not on the media just all the bad stuff

oceanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948415#Comment_117948415

cant see any of that happening anytime soon, why would they even want to go into legitimate business?

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948265#Comment_117948265

If you are referring to pavee point. At the end Would you confirm

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949585#Comment_117949585

I would ! better prospects and I think your under the delusions ( no offence ment) that all travellers are working under the wire which is completely false and exactly what the media has set out to do. There are many legit business out there that travellers run for example trinity carpets tuam it's been running early 1990 I think if not longer but it's the law breaks you all hear about not the other ones because it's not what the media want or allowed to tell right now

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949586#Comment_117949586

Yes, pavee point. I don't think they do the community they represent any favours. They need to highlight success and bring forward ideas to challenge the masculine and violent culture you describe and the wider community hear of and witness.

I feel genuinely sorry for children growing up without a chance to better themselves if the status quo is accepted by the majority in the traveller community.

cafflingwunts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943873#Comment_117943873

cant believe you're not trolling after calling bare knuckle boxers 'athletes of our culture' when if that was true, you may aswell call a colored fella swinging a machete into his 'opps' a fine showing of African culture.

Ultimately like a junkie, change has to come from within. It has to be wanted. With travellers that's just non-existent, sorry.

Icsics

The social welfare system needs to be overhauled, no long term allowances, they should be working for it. I was at a Confirmation last week, the traveller families were all in bespoke outfits, hair & makeup applied professionally, even the toddlers. Stretch limos outside the door & lavish parties after. None of them have 'jobs'.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949780#Comment_117949780

That's the revenues problem blame them. not social welfare man travellers and settled community alike need that as a life line. everyone is intitled to social welfare and the revenue red flag them to pay or not to pay an individual so start at the head for the problem doc before u think cutting off the hand is the solution

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949763#Comment_117949763

Your entire comment made no point I can follow or sense. Come back to me with a better point and I we might have a conversation 😉

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949737#Comment_117949737

I agree with you there from a time where it's bad to say. running water and toilets being built in a halting site in the middle of a field was breaking news. There's not pushing the right angles and questions there needs to be a change

mohawk

Change always has to come from within a community. People have said education, however children are more likely to stay in education when it’s important to their family and their parents are supportive of it. If a particular group or community doesn’t value education then the kids tend not to go as far as their peers.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950084#Comment_117950084

Agreed but The community is separated by factions i.e wards .mcdonaghs. mongans all have there own circle within a circle so the problem is there yes but it's the so called spokes people pavee point that has missed the step and needs to band together with a better solution then more free halting site Jesus that was a problem 30 years Go Get a different dream like

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949938#Comment_117949938

Well it isn't and you have said this a number of times on the thread. Our tax system is done on a self assessment basis. This relies on citizens being honest and upfront with Revenue for the good of society. It is not upto them to force you to pay taxes (although they can choose to audit you at any point).

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950148#Comment_117950148

Who will be militarized ? travellers ?

Gunmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940159#Comment_117940159

Except that at one part sounds awfully like a protection racket:

"Oh we smashed up your pub....well, if you hire my nephew to work the bar its all good and we wont in the future *wink*" So would every establishement, from pub to hotel to shop up and down the country, have to have a Traveller on payroll to stop Travellers acting like thuggish, stealing **** within their premises? Because that sounds ludicrous.

And as for refusing to serve some Travellers not being discrimination, it would be fine for the young lads family or immediate relatives....but what about a rival family his doesnt get along well with? Traveller feuds are very well known (one of the primary causes of most of the violent eruptions at weddings/funerals/Tuesdays it seems) so how will it stand for the publican who has now nailed one particular families colours to his mast by hiring the young lad, hasnt he?

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950664#Comment_117950664

Ya buddy you found us out it's a conspiracy to steal your jobs or we break your pubs up other wise With that in mind why hire a traveller at all. Sickening to be straight with you and then ask travellers to become more social and that's the way to definitely get us to like you more

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950527#Comment_117950527

Yes