How to fix the traveller community

mikethecop

realistically and from long experience it isn't the few bad apples that are spoiling the reputation for the traveler community ,its the vast majority that are doing that.

until an substantive amount of travellers decide they want to be a part of normal society then they will always be a problem for the rest of us.

if you want t rush that process then apply the same standards to them as everyone else .... ie funding cuts and jail for misbehavior.

Brucie Bonus

You can't attend school, pay tax or receive welfare unless you have a contact address.

Should be the same rules for everyone.

Its cool if you don't want to integrate but then you should not have any access to settled people benefits IMO.

Maybe set up a system like the first nations in the states. Own rules in pockets of the country. Reserves.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941259#Comment_117941259

Dole increasing while taxes for those paying taxes is also increasing. The dole should be a temporary crutch to support you if you legitimately loose your job. Pay much higher for a temporary period of a few months for those who have paid a minimum number of weeks of tax (let’s say 5 years) while employed. All others who have not worked should never be better off than those on minimum wage and that dole needs cutting back. Include all the other benefits in calculations.

Its far from just a traveller problem. But no government (current FF/FG, future SF) will dare touch the dole or they will be torn apart.

I would still link increased dole to number of kids but to a max of 2 (the average number of kids per family in the country). The state should not fund any more. Same for working people.

One thing sticks out. We have had a huge influx of foreign nationals of every colour and creed and culture in the last 20 years. Many (not all) of their kids have succeeded where their parents had not. Education worked for these kids. Plenty of working Chinese, Polish, Nigerian, Malaysian people all educated here. If racism was central to the issue, then I would have thought these would be the first to suffer. Your education breaks down so many employment barriers as it can’t be argued with.

My solution: If we want to fix social issues throughout the state, then education has to be the core fix.

The current system does not suit everyone (rote learning) so tailor it to allow apprenticeship to even younger people while in school of sorts to get a minimum grade of education. It means an overhaul of the education system, which will be unpalatable to many.

The Tec’s were supposed to do this (prepare for apprenticeship) but despite many being Deis schools with good funding, don’t achieve this as they are judged on their grades like all other schools. Your local wannabe tradesman (tradeswoman is genuine missed opportunity) should be knocking at the door to get in here if done correctly. A genuine stepping stone towards owning your own business as a tradesman. Imagine a state that can build houses without having to import half of another country.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941301#Comment_117941301

We'll see my personal experience has to contradict you as there is bad apples that I know would represent the worst of are community and that is a fact look on YouTube but see that in a sense has to be put into understanding that theses guys that are the undesirables are also the would be athletes of are culture and that starts in the form of bare knuckle boxing.I will start a forum on it to cover it more but. But that is why there is such a big pull on the Irish traditional was if working and I agree with being part of normal society but do that also mean to give up and sacrifice are beliefs and traditions just to be like everyone else because that is just a shame and a waste of a heritage.

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941301#Comment_117941301

Funding cuts let's be honest the unemployment rate on travellers is bullshit I would say it's at 30% not 80 as there trying to say so it wouldn't matter to most of them and that lands on revenue to pull there socks up and figure out who is lieing. And I agree for serious misbehaviour I would say that needs to be tuned up a notch and a more serious treatment to be done but that needs to be universal not a with hunt for just travellers that wouldn't end well for both parties involved

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941252#Comment_117941252

See they do go by the same laws because believe me travellers would be a bigger problem if this wasn't the case and how have they been enable please tell in this day and age that all a guy to peter Casey has To do is start talking **** about travellers days before the election and the whole nation rallys behind him. And then you want travellers to behave. Please you can only wipe a dog so much before it bites. Travellers are not welcome in normal society and that's a straight fact

irish2021traveller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941220#Comment_117941220

Tuam agreed was very bad but that's the problem and In lines of the justice system not many know this but the guards actually gave those guys a peace deal and that means disperse and no charges will be brought at that current place

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943880#Comment_117943880

Peter Casey got 23% of the first preference votes. That is hardly the whole nation to be fair.

Interesting thread though

Jane98

IMO the overly generous welfare system is preventing many people, not just travellers from wanting to better themselves. Why can't we ask unemployed people which are more than a year unemployed to contribute to their community by doing one day volunteering a week. If they don't want to do it simply half their benefits.

I am a teacher, teaching 10 years in a school in a disadvantaged area. A sizeable minority of the students I teach have no aspiration to work, instead aim for a life on social welfare as this is what they see their family doing. If I ask these students whats the benefit in working they only ever see money, they never can see that it might be good for their self esteem and mental health and they only ever see themselves earning minimum wage. They never see that as a starting point of their working career. I was so sickened to hear of plans in the budget to increase welfare and increase taxes for the working. Some of my students families seem to have a lot more disposable cash than many working families and this is VERY wrong.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943880#Comment_117943880

Ok first off as I mentioned I don't think the traveller community need "fixing".

The Peter Casey episode got blown out of all proportion by RTE because they wanted to get rid of him from the President race, same as they done on the previous when the lad from Cavan was ahead in the polls and they made up a story to get rid of him, then when the election was over they admitted it was wrong.

Casey got 23% of the vote because like the general election to follow soon after people where sick of the usual tripe from politicians. Casey got just over 300k votes. The entire election had about 1.4m votes. So about 1/5 of the population voted. So you cannot say the nation rallied behind him

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944578#Comment_117944578

As long as people keep voting for FG and FF things will never change. I always laugh when i hear middle and upper class people crow about voting for FG or life long FG'ers yet then sit back and complain about situations like you have outlined above. FG and FF are responsible for all of it.

Sunny Disposition

Casey quite possible would have won the election if Higgins hadn't been the most popular public figure in Ireland. That's a worry, he was coming out with unashamed racist statements, and it propelled him from the bottom of the race to second place.

There is a massive problem with Travellers, especially in the west of Ireland, like it or not that's the truth. Travellers are hugely over represented in court, go to any district court sitting and you'll see it. Of course the involvement by many in crime leads to fear among the wider community and it makes it very hard for decent Travellers to integrate.

It does happen that Travellers become part of communities, but it is rare. The answer is extremely difficult to find, I suspect education is the way, and a very targeted attempt to increase participation among the community.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944668#Comment_117944668

A lot of people voted for Casey because he seemed to tell the truth even if it wasn't politically correct didn't back down on it.

How many people would genuinely welcome a halting site next door. I bet a lot lower percentage than was seemingly represented by the presidential candidates.

It wasn't particularly anything to do with travellers but it had more to do with the credibility of other candidates which was damaged when they all said they'd be happy with a halting site next door.

Michael D said it too but most people had made up their mind to vote for him before the campaign. I'm pretty sure short of Michael D turning up for the debates in a Nazi uniform he would have won.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944807#Comment_117944807

Please point out in detail one incident of racism from Casey.

Jane98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

Many people did not vote for FG or FF in the last election but they still managed to get into government because the 3 current parties in government came together to keep SF (who had the highest % of votes) out. The problem really is that none of the parties would dare try suggesting welfare rates are too high as they see that as a means to losing votes. Joan Burton suggested some years ago that people were choosing social welfare as a lifestyle choice and she was attacked and eventually lost her seat.

If someone actually sat down and worked out the total costs of welfare to an average family it wold probably be eye watering. Also I believe there is alot of fraud within the system that needs to be weeded out.

https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/joan-burton-pladges-to-stop-social-welfare-becoming-a-lifestyle-choice-25940

Thoie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940135#Comment_117940135

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think was done differently in your school/community/area that helped/encouraged you and the others to stay in school and get your Leaving Cert? Was it particularly good teachers/school, or family encouragement/expectations or something else? Was it something that could be easily used to help other kids complete secondary education?

Blazer

As people have said Education is the key to helping therefore it should be tied into children's allowances etc.

Simply put..if you want to get children's allowance (at school age obviously) at this point tie it into school attendance for every child. (and not just traveler children)

Implement a biometric system where each child scans in the morning and scans out in the evening. Yes I know the privacy advocates will be up in arms about it but we need a system we can rely on to cut out fraud and ensure that children get signed in and not immediately go back out.

At present the kids have no chance whatsoever of a future bar the current traveller culture one and its extremely rare that so many break free of it so kudos to the Op for taking the step.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944950#Comment_117944950

This is not just an issue with travellers. People seem to be ignoring huge parts of Ireland have kids not going to school and they are not travellers. All children across Ireland should have the same requirements.

Sleepy

Can I ask you a fairly personal question irish2021traveller? What level of education did you manage to achieve yourself? I mean no disrespect but the grammar and spelling in your posts would make me think you probably never got beyond a Junior Cert?

I'd suggest that not only should all children (traveller or settled) be educated to Leaving Certificate as a minimum (the LCVP catering for the non-academic amongst us), one of the greatest services we as a society could provide to the traveller community would be further investment in Adult education. I'm sure there must be many traveller men and women who regret being pulled out of education by their parents in their early teens. "No more school" sounds like a great thing to a 14 year old, once he/she's a grown adult, however, it holds them back in many ways and I'd hazard a guess there are many older travellers who wish they'd stuck with it.

A total reform of our welfare system is needed: Job Seekers should be able to claim a percentage of their most recent salary for a limited duration (say 6 months at 60 or 70% of your last salary - if the salary was high, the person will have paid high amounts of PRSI that would cover this), with levels for those who haven't worked or who haven't been able to find employment again being based on the effort they've put into making themselves employable: a degree, trade or other third-level qualification qualifying you for the maximum amount, a leaving certificate the second highest, a junior cert an amount below that and no junior cert or equivalent education the lowest payment level.

Children's allowance I'd scrap entirely as it costs a fortune to administer and could easily be replaced with a tax credit for those in employment or an increase in the social welfare allowances for children of the unemployed. Those credits/additional allowances should be dependent on the child's attendance at school.

I reckon not only would these two measures encourage more travellers to keep their children in school and give them a far better chance at making a good life for themselves, it'd have the same influence on those in the settled community who are making themselves unemployable.

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945036#Comment_117945036

Absolutely. There's a huge swathe of children missing school and no repercussions for it.

But our education system also needs a massive kick up the arse. Its in no fit purpose and badly needs a rehaul.

I work in IT within the automation side of it and everything is being automated so fast. It's not being done to cut jobs but to get rid of the manual and repetitive day to day stuff and have staff work on other more important stuff.

Look at autonomous driving..in another 10-20 years HGV drivers or taxies etc will not exist etc and same for low paying jobs etc.

What chance will people missing school now have in the future? Practically zero and probably a life of crime to make ends meet.

A lot of this could be avoided but the Government won't make the hard calls for it.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945036#Comment_117945036

This is a thread about the problem of travellers not the wider community.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945089#Comment_117945089

The thread is about "fixing the travellers", yet the issue been brought up are not just with that community. So as I said people shouldnt be focusing on "fixing the traveller" who are 0.4% of the population. More on fixing the issues across Ireland and that will include the travellers.

From what I can see on here the travellers are a easy target for a lot of people, it seems every woe in the World lies at their door. Yet other sectors of Ireland have the exact same issues and I don't see thread constantly getting loaded about how to fix them.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

Fair chance we'll have an SF-led government not involving FF or FG after the next election. Do you think that would change things for the better?

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945055#Comment_117945055

Schools and education isn't the be and end all of these issues. My eldest for instance dropped out of school at 16 and now manages a business with a 6 figure salary at 23 years of age. I know loads of kids from my school days many moons ago who completed leaving certs and ended in dead end jobs or some who went on to spend years in and out of crappy jobs. The difference is many travellers do not encourage their children to better themselves on the wider aspects of life and be a contributing citizen.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944800#Comment_117944800

What exactly are Sinn Fein going to do to resolve the supposed issue with the traveller and the wider community in Ireland with similar problems?

Last time I read the Sinn fein manifesto the great plan was to tax the workers and give more money to this sector of society, do you think giving them more money will resolve anythign?

JP Liz V1

Are any on Turas Nua? I would echo punishment for not letting kids go to school fully, I mean on to secondary, fines or take from child benefit

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945103#Comment_117945103

The percentage of travellers who go on to contribute taxes and become useful citizens is tiny compared to the settled community.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945109#Comment_117945109

I'd say no but im willing to give them the chance after social democrats get my first vote. Unfortunately we have zero right leaning political parties in Ireland which has lead us to where we are now, we've no balance at all. FG/FF have fooled the gullible masses for years into believing they are the party of the working tax payer, they are anything but.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945119#Comment_117945119

No, it's not the be and end all but I'd argue education is one of our strongest tools to improve society. Your eldest was lucky, he/she may have worked damn hard to get where they've gotten but luck played a part: most who drop out at 16 don't do so well, particularly without having pursued an alternative form of education (i.e. an apprenticeship of some sort).

When a kid is being educated, not only are they being provided with the tools to ensure they can be a contributing citizen, they're also being exposed to social queues that may encourage them to want to better themselves (seeing classmates whose parents have done well arriving to school in nice cars, hearing about their exotic holidays etc.). Add in the influence that a good teacher can have on a kid's life and the effects can be huge.

Or to look at it another way: a person who hasn't even completed a Junior Cert will be unemployable in most industries. Regardless of work-ethic, desire to improve themselves and contribute to society etc., unless they have a Leaving Cert, a Trade or a degree they'll be relying on luck. Whether that's the luck to not only have be born with some innate talent but furthermore to get the opportunity to generate a living from it or more simply to be in the right place at the right time or be provided with the right connections via one's parents or social circle.

A Leaving Certificate doesn't qualify one for much tbh. The lack of one, however, disqualifies one from an awful lot.

(for what it's worth, I'm not looking down on those without a Leaving Cert, Mrs Sleepy never did it)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943882#Comment_117943882

A peace deal ? How about this deal... don’t break the law = don’t get arrested.

the line of law shouldn’t have an opportunity to be blurred for anyone and from anyone’s perspective.

if you break the law, regardless of who you are the consequences should be the same for everyone.

they can arrest me if I assault somebody but ‘they’ might get a ‘peace deal’...

there lies the problem...they believe they have some special status, their own rules.