House Raffle Scams

Smouse156

Can anyone explain how the papers are continuously advertising these house lottery scams? They seem to be deliberately praying on those that have no hope of getting a home.

The sum of the tickets is nearly always twice the real value of the house with a small pittance going to some charity accompanied by a sob story.

The reality is that the house owner sells a few tickets to desperate people and pockets most of the money as the threshold is not met. The raffle winner may get a small award of say 20%, sometimes more of the prize pool. No house is sold.

It wouldn’t be a scam if the money was returned if the threshold wasn’t met.

Does anyone not think these scams are seriously immoral and should not be promoted in national newspapers?

A few examples:

https://www.independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/why-im-raffling-my-property-40882266.html

https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/homes-and-property/irish-couple-selling-four-bed-23650773

RichardAnd

"Sorry Ted. I was reading the ticket upside down!"

L1011

Some of the properties I've seen being raffled are unmortgageable for whatever reason, so this seems to be another method - use it to shift a boat anchor!

DubCount

The National Lottery advertise everywhere even though the average return is less than the cost of a ticket. People aren't buying a return, they are buying a dream. For the cost of the ticket, you get to dream about how you would spend the millions if you win.

These house lotteries are pretty much the same deal. Its a bad investment, but your chance to dream. I wouldn't call them scams. Someone does win.

Some more regulation would be welcome, but I dont think they should be kept out of the papers.

Smouse156

I would call them scams as they are unregulated here! The lotto is regulated and somebody does win it! Nobody ever wins these houses, probably not even one in Ireland has been won.

perhaps time to highlight these scams to the CPC.

Nugget89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932638#Comment_117932638

"Nobody ever wins these houses, probably not even one in Ireland has been won."

That's not true.

oLoonatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932792#Comment_117932792

Is there any evidence on whether anyone has actually won it or not?. I'd be interested to see. I have always thought they were a scam personally as they are very sketchy with T&Cs

BENDYBINN

The winner is usually a friend of a friend of a friend... Wink wink......

JimmyVik

Total scam. They are preying on people. I really dont get how they are allowed at all.

gary550

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932638#Comment_117932638

haha CPC

g'dluck with that, I sent them info on an actual scam & all the details on it & who did it and it took them 1 whole year to get back to me. I sent them further details and they basically told me that there was a slim chance of any repercussions for the perpetrator and they'll probably get away with it.

Not a small scam either, I rightly estimated 100k plus in a very short timeframe and directly from defrauding consumers.

I wouldn't call these house raffles a scam as such, the consumer knows and is informed that if the tickets don't sell there will be a raffle anyway for a lesser amount of money. The one mentioned in the article is being ran by a company that has a fairly decent track record in this type of thing too. I would say it is greed though on the owners part - she dresses it up as "giving hope" to someone who might not have a house when in reality all she wants to do is give herself a fat cheque above market value on the back of that "hope".

Also unregulated doesn't automatically equal scam - pcp finance being a big one although that is due to change this year.

Smouse156

That doesn’t sound promising regarding CPC but I’ll probably report these scams anyway! Hopefully in a few years they’ll be banned

Caranica

Why do the Gardai not investigate? The gaming and lotteries act is pretty strict.

80sDiesel

Yeah saw one recently. Guy was buying defibrillators for every GAA club or something. Cost 50k, Thought he was affected personally and was trying to do his bit. Was even throwing a second hand car and 5kinto the prize.

But house is worth 250 and it’s 50000 tickets at 12 euro a pop.

So that’s a target of 600,000. So less 250, 50, ~20…so proceeds of 280k!

So he gains 30k( no house)Less raffle fees take but no real estate fees so hard to know.

Woudn’t agree it’s a scam. Same as a lottery but not a fan as how this story was portrayed. Better if written: Man raffles house but keeps the proceeds and charity gets a helping hand.

It could be you. Or you could be hit by lightning.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/homes-and-property/irishman-raffling-home-picturesque-coastal-24637858

Nugget89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932833#Comment_117932833

There has definitely been real winners. I'm not saying there aren't lots of scams, but to say there are never any winners isn't true.

pc7

this one was widely advertised and a person won

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-winner-of-mayo-cottage-raffle-which-raised-1m-for-healthcare-staff-1.4341174

enricoh

Girl I know won a house in a gaa club draw, someone got her the ticket for her 30th. Wasn't an inside job as she'd no connection at all to the club.

It's not a scam!

It's a raffle. You buy a ticket. You know what you're buying.

happyoutscan

If you're not in, you can't win.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935097#Comment_117935097

And if I'm in I probably won't win :(

beachhead

How many posters here have been refused a mortgage. 1or 2 or ??

CollyFlower

Reminds me of the Credit union car raffles 'scam' , it always seemed to be an employee that won.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935097#Comment_117935097

Oh Yeah? Says who? ;)

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935660#Comment_117935660

Do you have proof?

AnRothar

It seems that the GAA used these raffles as a fundraising mechanism fairly regularly.

Usual t and c is that purchase of the ticket enrols the purchaser in the relevant club until after the draw.

This stipulation is probably required under the law granting the permit to run the draw.

https://www.lmfm.ie/news/lmfm-news/two-co-louth-ticket-holders-win-new-houses/

24,000 tickets at €100.

If done right this can work.

Clare GAA has one too.

https://winahouseinlahinch.com/

Smouse156

I suppose the issue with these scams is that someone wins the house once in a blue moon! It’s sold on false promises and the majority of the jackpot goes to the owner, not the winner. The sob story is usually bullshit or they wouldn’t denote such a tiny percentage to the charity.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937445#Comment_117937445

Someone wins the lotto once in a blue moon too.

The lotto is often derided as a tax on poor.

Those who least can afford it spend proportionately more.

It too started as a pseudo charitable idea to "support" good causes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/central-bank-finds-major-issues-with-car-prize-draws-at-many-credit-unions-36683567.html

https://extra.ie/2018/04/22/news/irish-news/credit-union-boss-wins-car-in-prize-draw-held-by-his-own-credit-union

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-credit-union-raffles-won-by-staff

there are lots of examples, I could link some more, but I'm busy buying lotto tickets for the 14M draw tonight :)

AnRothar

Have to love the first link.

It says

"It also found staff and directors have won a prize in 30pc of the credit unions that operated a draw."

Massively important but tiny letter "a".

Charlie Weston doing his best to sensationalise the issue.

From reading the article it is clear that poor governance is involved rather than outright criminality.

The third article is the same as the first one.

The second is more interesting.

It too relates to the same Central bank investigation referenced in the other 2 links.s

Regarding the staff member winning it seems to have been entitled to purchase a ticket, which he did. And the rates smiled on him and he won.

Obviously the CU realised how this could be interpreted (see one Charlie Weston) and proceeded to exclude staff from participating in draws.

We're there improprieties?

Of course.

Was there widespread criminal activity?

Based on the linked Central Bank article, no.

Incompetence, amateurish behaviour, misplaced trust definitely.

Regarding your chances of winning big tonight they are the same probably as mine, provided I buy a ticket.

Either way the Canadian Teachers pension fund will thank us.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

https://m.independent.ie › latest-news

Web results

Cash scandal credit union employee won a car in 'rigged draw' - Independent.ie

SupaCat95

The lotto is a tax on stupidity and best part about it is proportional.

For the same money (Circa €200) I would rather buy share in Providence Resources and wait for the oil to come up in my life time.

The lesson learned is a fool and his money are soon parted.

Suckit

I remember a well known story in the 70's or 80's about a well known gambler who raffled his house and each entry had to be accompanied by an essay explaining why they should win and what they would do with it.

The winner was a guy who said he would sell it. So the owner bought it back from him (on agreement) for less than he made in the raffle. He was then arrested an I think jailed for not having a lottery licence. I can't remember who the guy was, but searching for that story has shown how many are being raffled now! 🤯🤯

It also pulled up another story - https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/house-won-in-50-raffle-on-market-for-820-000-1.291027

EDIT -

It's possible I heard a muddled version of a couple of stories

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/0208/1028309-middleton-park-house-raffle/

Kurooi

Totally a scam, but brilliant for the seller.

Pocket at least twice the cash, give people no chance of a viewing, no survey or valuation, give the buyer zero recourse in case of any legal issues... I mean what does happen if you are the lucky one to win it, but a planning permission is missing or the place was just done up for the photos and is actually in dire need of repair. You will turn it down?

This is taking advantage of the desparation around housing, I wish it was illegal or at least media incl. Facebook stopped pushing this stuff, but I don't really see that happening.

It's not a scam!

You buy a ticket, you have a chance to win something, in this case a house.

It's yours if you win, do what you wish with it.

Smouse156

Almost guaranteed these scams will be outlawed in a few years

I remember back in the boom days people were queuing for a mile to get into these pyramid schemes that were being run in the Cork area…€5000 was minimum entry and if you got 16 fools then you got a “gift”. They probably weren’t illegal then either, or people would defend these “scams” as not scams due to the fact that gift giving was legal with the organisers hosting open events in hotels. But now widely recognised as scams.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940466#Comment_117940466

The real damage of those pyramid schemes wasnt the money lost but breaking down of relations and bad blood between families and friends. I was in Cork in that crazy time. The fallout was terrible. I was invited until a senior Co-worker came up to me and told a group of us that it was a con and was going to be made illegal by the then minister of Justice in a few week. I was so lucky I avoided it.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940399#Comment_117940399

Its preying on the weak and the vulnerable in society. I guarantee there are some dopes with less than the deposit for a real house who will sink all their saving/inheritance into these scams.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942269#Comment_117942269

So is all gambling 😊

SupaCat95

I love the line in the Big Short, for Jared Vennett: "Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I'll have my wife's brother arrested".

BTW I have a three brothers in law, that would fit that profile.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942275#Comment_117942275

True..... a fool and his money are soon parted. Then you get into the argument between gambling, speculating and common commerce.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

It was widely reported in the paper about the one in skerries after the inspectors were in

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937445#Comment_117937445

On Raffall.com at least, this is not true about the majority of the jackpot going to the owner. If the person hosting the raffle doesn't reach the amount of expected ticket sales and decides not to provide the prize (house) then they get nothing (from their FAQ)

What happens if all of the raffle tickets aren't sold by the draw date?

The raffle draw will take place on the scheduled date and time no matter how many tickets have been sold. If you provide the prize to the winner then we will transfer the proceeds from ticket sales to you. If you decide not to provide the prize to the winner then we will pay the winner a cash compensation amounting to 75% of the ticket sales and you will not receive any money.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944320#Comment_117944320

So if you sold only €100k worth of tickets then you will get nothing and the winner of the raffle will get €75k.

Handy €25k for whoever is keeping that too.

Total scam.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944996#Comment_117944996

I'm assuming the website keep that themselves but I haven't thoroughly read the rest of the terms/faqs.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945003#Comment_117945003

Must create one of those websites. :)

awec

To all those declaring this model a "scam", do you actually know what a raffle is?

Pay some money, you might win a house but the odds are massively stacked against you. Same as every single other raffle that has ever existed for anything ever.

Someone gets a house for 20 euro or whatever, everyone else pays 20 euro and gets nothing.

NIMAN

Football club local to me ran one for €100.

It was a prominent local businessman's son or daughter that won it, via a gifted ticket from him.

But I later learnt he bought a dozen tickets or something, so fair play to him.

And here's a belting story. Derry City FC ran such a draw for an apartment in the city maybe 20yrs or so ago.

Guy won it. No connection to the club or anyone employed by it.

Then they did a similar draw about 6 or 7 years later, and same guy won again. Kid you not. Whats the odds of that!

Smouse156

To those that believe the winner gets 75%, ye are dreaming!

look at the below, owners pretended they had 500k of expenses and then re-listed the home. The “winner” for 110k

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8175132/three-million-house-raffle-mark-beresford/

The winner was scammed due to the made up expenses by the owner totally unverified by the company running the raffle.

I could sell 1000 at €10 a pop, then claim €8000 expenses, charity gets 5%, raffle company gets 10% and the “winner” gets €500.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13750981/millionaire-couple-pocketed-500k-raffle-home-market/

Anyone that doesn’t think the winner or entrants here got scammed hasn’t a clue what a scam is!

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947192#Comment_117947192

Yes I am sure thee are dodgy ones, but suggesting all these raffles are scams is daft.

I have actually never seen one run here for a house by a private seller, but do see them frequently for registered organisations (GAA clubs, soccer clubs etc). If I were a member of these clubs or associated in any way I'd have no issues buying a ticket, at the end of the day it's just gambling and you have to understand that it's basically a donation with a fractional chance of getting lucky.

They are highly profitable for whoever runs them, but again, that's the whole point. If people don't get this they don't understand raffles.

I do not believe anyone buys these tickets thinking it's a genuine way to find housing for themselves. The whole "preying on the desperate" angle seems very far fetched to me.

Smouse156

I suppose the main difference is with GAA/sports clubs, people don’t mind denoting to them and I’m sure they wouldn’t try to claim over 50% expenses. Nobody really wants to denote to a greedy house owner.

It's not illegal but they are a magnet for gambling addicts who after the fact comparing about them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/house-raffles-when-your-home-is-literally-just-the-ticket-1.4658044

callaway92

I flagged this on a thread not too long ago and got a bit of stick for it funnily enough. - https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058176461/legalities-of-raffling-off-house/p1

My personal favourite is the 'Single Mom raffling off house'. Why she needs to mention she's a single mom, I do not know.

It just screams 'easy money' to me and to be honest, it is a borderline scam. There's no way either that Raffal walk away with all proceeds other than the 75% of what is raised. A lot will go to the person running the raffle.

The reason I would call it a borderline scam is I think it's disgusting that these people talk about giving money/proceeds to charities. A) They HAVE to, to make it legal and B) They are making so much profit above the valuation anyway that it is a scummy positive PR spin as if they are donating to the charity from the good of their heart.

Sick of the 'wow, what a great gesture' crap from droolers then when you question it.

The 'we want to give a chance to someone who cannot afford a mortgage' etc...sigh

The Limerick one - https://twitter.com/prizehomelim - Posts have slowed down on that. I'd say sales have been atrocious, and rightly so.

-- --

Response I received from Raffall when I asked them before (actually looks like charities don't get anything unless it sells out fully):

We are a SaaS (software as a service) raffle platform that enables users to host their own raffles and competitions online. The platform provides 100% security for both hosts and entrants by ensuring that ticket revenue remains blocked until winners confirm receipt of their prizes.

When we have to pay 75% cash compensation to a winner, the host does not receive anything. The remaining 25% is to cover our usual fee and the associated costs that arise when dealing with a dispute situation.

Charity donations are chosen by the individual host and are paid from the host's share of the revenue in a fully completed competition.