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House Raffle Scams

Smouse156

Can anyone explain how the papers are continuously advertising these house lottery scams? They seem to be deliberately praying on those that have no hope of getting a home.

The sum of the tickets is nearly always twice the real value of the house with a small pittance going to some charity accompanied by a sob story.

The reality is that the house owner sells a few tickets to desperate people and pockets most of the money as the threshold is not met. The raffle winner may get a small award of say 20%, sometimes more of the prize pool. No house is sold.

It wouldn’t be a scam if the money was returned if the threshold wasn’t met.

Does anyone not think these scams are seriously immoral and should not be promoted in national newspapers?

A few examples:

https://www.independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/why-im-raffling-my-property-40882266.html

https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/homes-and-property/irish-couple-selling-four-bed-23650773

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AnRothar

The article you link is dated 2018.

Anything more recent?

worded

The credit union scandals - unreal the greed against 1000s of savers. I enter these draws myself yearly and feel suspicious now ...

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/central-bank-finds-major-issues-with-car-prize-draws-at-many-credit-unions/36683567.html

I was in a house draw years ago and there were 10 prizes from the gaff to lesser prizes.

I was really surprised at how rushed the live draw was and they chose the top prize first, no foreplay to the top prize. Something didn't seem right.

Also ... In any raffle if all the tickets are not sold there is a temptation for the sellers to enter their own names as they are "free" to them.

The odds are so bad with the national.lottery but at least it's unlikely to be corrupt

Kashmir21

Reading this thread and just thought I'd throw this out there...

I know a guy who ran the social media campaign for one of these 'Win a House' competitions a few years back. When the ticket selling was nearing complete, he was able to see (via back-end access to the web shop) that a huge majority of tickets were still not sold. So with this knowledge he hedged his bets and got his wife and presumably family members to buy 5, maybe 10x tickets which would obviously increase their odds of winning. And as luck would have it when the draw was made, his wife was the lucky ticket that was pulled out!!! The house was valued at €285,000 and they cashed it all in (tax free) for the financial equivalent. I still to this day cannot believe that the GAA club running the competition, did not spot this and call it out as a conflict of interest. But there you have it, that's what you're up against with these competitions.

callaway92

That is actually depressing

atticu

Love the results of this raffle:

https://raffall.com/206041/enter-raffle-to-win-windublinhomecarandcash-hosted-by-rory-mac-clancy

winner: Won Dublin Home Car and Cash on 27th August 2021

winners comments: Rating: Shocked, sad to not win the house and car but the cash compensation will help me tremendously.

So, they didn’t win a house and a car!

callaway92

I flagged this on a thread not too long ago and got a bit of stick for it funnily enough. - https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058176461/legalities-of-raffling-off-house/p1

My personal favourite is the 'Single Mom raffling off house'. Why she needs to mention she's a single mom, I do not know.

It just screams 'easy money' to me and to be honest, it is a borderline scam. There's no way either that Raffal walk away with all proceeds other than the 75% of what is raised. A lot will go to the person running the raffle.

The reason I would call it a borderline scam is I think it's disgusting that these people talk about giving money/proceeds to charities. A) They HAVE to, to make it legal and B) They are making so much profit above the valuation anyway that it is a scummy positive PR spin as if they are donating to the charity from the good of their heart.

Sick of the 'wow, what a great gesture' crap from droolers then when you question it.

The 'we want to give a chance to someone who cannot afford a mortgage' etc...sigh

The Limerick one - https://twitter.com/prizehomelim - Posts have slowed down on that. I'd say sales have been atrocious, and rightly so.

-- --

Response I received from Raffall when I asked them before (actually looks like charities don't get anything unless it sells out fully):

We are a SaaS (software as a service) raffle platform that enables users to host their own raffles and competitions online. The platform provides 100% security for both hosts and entrants by ensuring that ticket revenue remains blocked until winners confirm receipt of their prizes.

When we have to pay 75% cash compensation to a winner, the host does not receive anything. The remaining 25% is to cover our usual fee and the associated costs that arise when dealing with a dispute situation.

Charity donations are chosen by the individual host and are paid from the host's share of the revenue in a fully completed competition.

[Deleted User]

It's not illegal but they are a magnet for gambling addicts who after the fact comparing about them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/house-raffles-when-your-home-is-literally-just-the-ticket-1.4658044

Smouse156

I suppose the main difference is with GAA/sports clubs, people don’t mind denoting to them and I’m sure they wouldn’t try to claim over 50% expenses. Nobody really wants to denote to a greedy house owner.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947192#Comment_117947192

Yes I am sure thee are dodgy ones, but suggesting all these raffles are scams is daft.

I have actually never seen one run here for a house by a private seller, but do see them frequently for registered organisations (GAA clubs, soccer clubs etc). If I were a member of these clubs or associated in any way I'd have no issues buying a ticket, at the end of the day it's just gambling and you have to understand that it's basically a donation with a fractional chance of getting lucky.

They are highly profitable for whoever runs them, but again, that's the whole point. If people don't get this they don't understand raffles.

I do not believe anyone buys these tickets thinking it's a genuine way to find housing for themselves. The whole "preying on the desperate" angle seems very far fetched to me.

Smouse156

To those that believe the winner gets 75%, ye are dreaming!

look at the below, owners pretended they had 500k of expenses and then re-listed the home. The “winner” for 110k

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8175132/three-million-house-raffle-mark-beresford/

The winner was scammed due to the made up expenses by the owner totally unverified by the company running the raffle.

I could sell 1000 at €10 a pop, then claim €8000 expenses, charity gets 5%, raffle company gets 10% and the “winner” gets €500.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13750981/millionaire-couple-pocketed-500k-raffle-home-market/

Anyone that doesn’t think the winner or entrants here got scammed hasn’t a clue what a scam is!

NIMAN

Football club local to me ran one for €100.

It was a prominent local businessman's son or daughter that won it, via a gifted ticket from him.

But I later learnt he bought a dozen tickets or something, so fair play to him.

And here's a belting story. Derry City FC ran such a draw for an apartment in the city maybe 20yrs or so ago.

Guy won it. No connection to the club or anyone employed by it.

Then they did a similar draw about 6 or 7 years later, and same guy won again. Kid you not. Whats the odds of that!

awec

To all those declaring this model a "scam", do you actually know what a raffle is?

Pay some money, you might win a house but the odds are massively stacked against you. Same as every single other raffle that has ever existed for anything ever.

Someone gets a house for 20 euro or whatever, everyone else pays 20 euro and gets nothing.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945003#Comment_117945003

Must create one of those websites. :)

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944996#Comment_117944996

I'm assuming the website keep that themselves but I haven't thoroughly read the rest of the terms/faqs.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944320#Comment_117944320

So if you sold only €100k worth of tickets then you will get nothing and the winner of the raffle will get €75k.

Handy €25k for whoever is keeping that too.

Total scam.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937445#Comment_117937445

On Raffall.com at least, this is not true about the majority of the jackpot going to the owner. If the person hosting the raffle doesn't reach the amount of expected ticket sales and decides not to provide the prize (house) then they get nothing (from their FAQ)

What happens if all of the raffle tickets aren't sold by the draw date?

The raffle draw will take place on the scheduled date and time no matter how many tickets have been sold. If you provide the prize to the winner then we will transfer the proceeds from ticket sales to you. If you decide not to provide the prize to the winner then we will pay the winner a cash compensation amounting to 75% of the ticket sales and you will not receive any money.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

It was widely reported in the paper about the one in skerries after the inspectors were in

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942275#Comment_117942275

True..... a fool and his money are soon parted. Then you get into the argument between gambling, speculating and common commerce.

SupaCat95

I love the line in the Big Short, for Jared Vennett: "Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I'll have my wife's brother arrested".

BTW I have a three brothers in law, that would fit that profile.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942269#Comment_117942269

So is all gambling 😊

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940399#Comment_117940399

Its preying on the weak and the vulnerable in society. I guarantee there are some dopes with less than the deposit for a real house who will sink all their saving/inheritance into these scams.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940466#Comment_117940466

The real damage of those pyramid schemes wasnt the money lost but breaking down of relations and bad blood between families and friends. I was in Cork in that crazy time. The fallout was terrible. I was invited until a senior Co-worker came up to me and told a group of us that it was a con and was going to be made illegal by the then minister of Justice in a few week. I was so lucky I avoided it.

Smouse156

Almost guaranteed these scams will be outlawed in a few years

I remember back in the boom days people were queuing for a mile to get into these pyramid schemes that were being run in the Cork area…€5000 was minimum entry and if you got 16 fools then you got a “gift”. They probably weren’t illegal then either, or people would defend these “scams” as not scams due to the fact that gift giving was legal with the organisers hosting open events in hotels. But now widely recognised as scams.

[Deleted User]

It's not a scam!

You buy a ticket, you have a chance to win something, in this case a house.

It's yours if you win, do what you wish with it.

Kurooi

Totally a scam, but brilliant for the seller.

Pocket at least twice the cash, give people no chance of a viewing, no survey or valuation, give the buyer zero recourse in case of any legal issues... I mean what does happen if you are the lucky one to win it, but a planning permission is missing or the place was just done up for the photos and is actually in dire need of repair. You will turn it down?

This is taking advantage of the desparation around housing, I wish it was illegal or at least media incl. Facebook stopped pushing this stuff, but I don't really see that happening.

Suckit

I remember a well known story in the 70's or 80's about a well known gambler who raffled his house and each entry had to be accompanied by an essay explaining why they should win and what they would do with it.

The winner was a guy who said he would sell it. So the owner bought it back from him (on agreement) for less than he made in the raffle. He was then arrested an I think jailed for not having a lottery licence. I can't remember who the guy was, but searching for that story has shown how many are being raffled now! 🤯🤯

It also pulled up another story - https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/house-won-in-50-raffle-on-market-for-820-000-1.291027

EDIT -

It's possible I heard a muddled version of a couple of stories

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/0208/1028309-middleton-park-house-raffle/

SupaCat95

The lotto is a tax on stupidity and best part about it is proportional.

For the same money (Circa €200) I would rather buy share in Providence Resources and wait for the oil to come up in my life time.

The lesson learned is a fool and his money are soon parted.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

https://m.independent.ie › latest-news

Web results

Cash scandal credit union employee won a car in 'rigged draw' - Independent.ie

AnRothar

Have to love the first link.

It says

"It also found staff and directors have won a prize in 30pc of the credit unions that operated a draw."

Massively important but tiny letter "a".

Charlie Weston doing his best to sensationalise the issue.

From reading the article it is clear that poor governance is involved rather than outright criminality.

The third article is the same as the first one.

The second is more interesting.

It too relates to the same Central bank investigation referenced in the other 2 links.s

Regarding the staff member winning it seems to have been entitled to purchase a ticket, which he did. And the rates smiled on him and he won.

Obviously the CU realised how this could be interpreted (see one Charlie Weston) and proceeded to exclude staff from participating in draws.

We're there improprieties?

Of course.

Was there widespread criminal activity?

Based on the linked Central Bank article, no.

Incompetence, amateurish behaviour, misplaced trust definitely.

Regarding your chances of winning big tonight they are the same probably as mine, provided I buy a ticket.

Either way the Canadian Teachers pension fund will thank us.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936703#Comment_117936703

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/central-bank-finds-major-issues-with-car-prize-draws-at-many-credit-unions-36683567.html

https://extra.ie/2018/04/22/news/irish-news/credit-union-boss-wins-car-in-prize-draw-held-by-his-own-credit-union

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-credit-union-raffles-won-by-staff

there are lots of examples, I could link some more, but I'm busy buying lotto tickets for the 14M draw tonight :)