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WHO created coronavirus?

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,819 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    It probably was an accidental escape from the lab but that it came from the lab is nearly certain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭ horse7


    God made the world and everything in it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭ recode the site


    I have very little doubt myself that it was an unintentionally leaked virus from the Wuhan lab, developed initially for the purposes of a SARS vaccine creation. A huge amount was already known about the structure of the virus by cooperating scientists, which led to an unprecedented speed in novel vaccine development. I don’t personally think there was anything deliberate on a corporate scale, although it is always possible that a regrade/disgruntled individual allowed it to escape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,240 ✭✭✭ deezell


    His creation is one giant cover up. We all escaped from his Lab, but he (she it they etc.) appoints the investigators.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,628 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    The article is not consistent with itself. It starts

    Scientists in Wuhan were planning to release enhanced airborne coronaviruses into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans

    but goes on to say

    researchers submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan.

    Proteins are not viruses.

    Either I'm missing something or the author is an idiot. Sarah Knapton appears to be, or have been, Science Editor at The Daily Telegraph, which might offer an explanation, given the Telegraph's tendency to be wrong about almost everything whilst trying to give the impression of being authoritative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭ Stormyteacup


    I’m not seeing the inconsistency- it reads as though there was a plan to release airborne nanoparticles that penetrate skin, that contain the spike protein of bat corona viruses.

    Aren’t spike proteins part of certain viruses?



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Olivia Repulsive Vehicle


    5 million dead, needs to be serious reprecussions for those responsible and for those who helped them cover it all up...



  • Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭ aziz




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Olivia Repulsive Vehicle




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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,628 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Proteins are not viruses, therefore they were not planning on releasing viruses. I don't know how to put it any more simply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,240 ✭✭✭ deezell


    Well someone ****ed up, and released a tampered with virus which had the correct protein spikes to attach to humans, but also a viable virus attached. They didn't get the $12M from Darpa, maybe they tried doing it on the cheap, cut corners, maybe someone had a bruised ego after the rejection, and though he could become famous by going it alone and succeeding. I think its worse than an accident, accidents happen with the best controls in place. I think someone ploughed ahead without any control. It's as plausible a scenario as any other. DARPA are very particular who they fund. They won't support a proposal if its risky, a threat to US security, or they don't trust you. It walks and quacks like a duck to me.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Agreeable Stepladder


    Where did all the previous novel viruses come from then? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The jump from bat virus to human was not huge. A small mutation in the spike protein not a complete new spike. Bats are mammals too and physiologically at a fundamental level we are very closely related.

    Does not rule out escape from a lab but it is more likely to have emerged in the same way every other virus has.

    Is perhaps easier for some to find a face to blame and continue to regard ourselves as outside the biological realm with our destiny not at the mercy of nature



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 47,813 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Retr0gamer


    Considering the author, the glaring scientific inaccuracies in the piece and the fact that any other publication with more integrity than the indo isn't reporting this I'm going to call bullshit on this one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,318 ✭✭✭ enfant terrible


    On the channel 4 documentary about the leak theory, one of the contributors said even if the US and EU have evidence of a leak from a Chinese lab they will be very hesitant to blame China.

    He said The US and EU need China to keep track of the spread of Covid and new variants and if they blame China they will shut up shop and close off all communication to the rest of the world.

    So even if the evidence does indicate a lab leak don't be surprised if its all swept under the carpet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭ MilkyToast


    It's not that rare for pathogens to escape from labs through human error, and the idea that Chinese people eating bats was a more obvious explanation than a leak from The Wuhan Institute of Virology that's 30 minutes away from the The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market was always a weird presumption.

    Vox did a decent article on lab leaks back in 2019. Can't post links but google "Vox pathogens sometimes escape the lab".

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭ Stormyteacup


    Ah yes fair enough, perhaps sensational reporting or as you say the author is an idiot. Assumed releasing virus fully formed would never be under consideration - but that was my read, clearly can be interpreted as there was a plan to release virus.

    Still, possible gain of function research specifically on bat coronaviruses in a lab at ground zero Covid site is a valid theory for emergence of Covid 19 imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool


    GoF research has been going on for some time, rightly or wrongly, it will continue to be carried out.

    The reason the lab is in Wuhan is down to the presence of bats and the high number of new virus found in those bats, it is akin to automatically blaming the volcano monitoring station when a volcano erupts. That's not to say that the lab leak didn't occur, but that new virus emerge or are discovered in bats all the time and jumping to human has also occurred previously, which is why the area is researched heavily.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,628 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Also, at the risk of being accused of pedantry, lab leak is not currently a theory, it's a hypothesis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭ Timfy


    Conspiracies forum ===>

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭ Stormyteacup


    That’s quite a bad analogy. There’s nothing I can imagine that a volcano monitoring station could do to cause an eruption.

    However since there is evidence that lab leaks have occurred in the past, it’s a plausible hypothesis that some small carelessness, or simple human error could have resulted in a worker unwittingly transmitting the virus to the local community.

    And yes, zoonotics jump, n the absence of carelessness or human error, to human hosts - so it could also be that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭ Stormyteacup


    But this is specifically related to Covid 19 virus. Is this the case for other coronaviruses with bats as source animal? Perhaps it is - admit to not having studied bat coronaviruses.

    But according to the article;

    ‘Pond comments, "what's been so surprising is just how transmissible SARS-CoV-2 has been from the outset. Usually viruses that jump to a new host species take some time to acquire adaptations to be as capable as SARS-CoV-2 at spreading, and most never make it past that stage, resulting in dead-end spillovers or localised outbreaks."’



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool


    It's more that the lab is there because that's where virus tend to originate, thus when a new virus originates, the jump shouldn't be to blame the lab. It's a small possiblity, but we're really not that advanced in creating virus that a novel coronavirus is likely to be of human origin (more likely would be a variant of already existing virus).

    If there was a lab in the middle of the Sahara desert, and then a virus originated from that region, then you could say there's a high chance the lab was involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,653 ✭✭✭✭ SEPT 23 1989


    The US had China by the balls trade wise and then this miraculously appeared crippling all western economies

    probably just a coincidence



  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭ Stormyteacup


    I could take your point if it were the case that that particular bat cave in Wuhan was one of few places where viruses tended to originate. It’s far from a unique site.

    We are incredibly advanced in creating novel viruses. That’s not to say that fact, in itself, has any bearing on how likely or unlikely a lab leak is. It’s just that it’s a possibility imo, maybe a small one but one that seems to be dismissed too easily.

    I don’t need anyone to blame. If the hypothesis were proven true then better regulation is needed.




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,141 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Some new reports on a close relative of SARS-COV-2 identified in other parts of Asia. This is not the first time this has come up and I believe there have also been reports from Thailand.





  • Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool


    And a lot of those areas will have research being carried out nearby, as you say, Wuhan is not unique in that regard. What I'm trying to point out is that a) new virus that impacted humans have appeared and will continue to appear b) where they appear from will probably have a lab nearby, this doesn't automatically mean they are linked

    We've had similar virus already these past 2 decades, it won't be a surprise if more are encountered. If wonder if losing the "novel" effect due to prevalence of SARS-COV2 will cause future similar virus to be much less effective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭ MilkyToast


    This article seems to be a pretty good summary of the Daszak mess. His strong involvement in all the "debunking" efforts, and the subsequent realisation that he was involved in seeking funding for GoF research, seems to be a large part of why the "made in a chinese lab" theory won't die.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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