Budget 2022 fuel tax to rise

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944625#Comment_117944625

Well nobody knows yet, apart from maybe ringsting, since he knows everything.

But if the tax was based on a usage reading from the car, then it doesnt matter where the electricity came from when it comes to taxing the consumption.

And one thing is for sure in Ireland. They are good at figuring out ways to tax us up to our eyeballs.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945434#Comment_117945434

We do the same.

Our meter is plus 13 minutes.

Lantus

It would be desperate charging tax on kWh/100km on EVs. Punishment for buying the cleanest car possible even if most the energy is via renewables?? (Projecting forwards)

The gap between them is just so tight as well.

I'd say a flat tax would be a better approach.

billyhead

Sure it doesn't matter if they raise car tax in the budget. Half the cars I see in my estate aren't taxed anyway so there's plenty of people driving without valid tax.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946773#Comment_117946773

When you go to renew your motor tax you are forced to pay back tax unless car was declared off the road in advance or if car was recently sold, even to partner. Selling a car to a partner costs a euro for a stamp.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947908#Comment_117947908

Apparently you don't even need a stamp, it is Freepost 🙂

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944302#Comment_117944302

So .. the car isn't due an NCT for the first 4 years... How is it calculated during this time period .

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949114#Comment_117949114

It would be self declaration each year at motor tax renewal time. When you go to sell car you might need to write mileage on sales form when sending to Shannon. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it could work, and it's somewhat fair. There are issues with other tax collection systems, property tax self valuation, water charges, ESB/gas and renewables, TV licence, self declaration income tax, but they work more or less.

So what do folk think around impact on 2nd hand ICE car prices with this news? They’re artificially high right now due to massive supply issues- personally I’m saving up for a new EV because I’m pretty much convinced that between fuel and the promised tolls and congestion charges the daily running costs of ICE cars will make them a tipping point to go EV - I mean the Greens are sharing power- it’s not a pleasant feeling and we’ve been here in the past with their tax everything approach and no imagination or proper supported stimulus to change

Leonard Hofstadter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968837#Comment_117968837

Well electricity prices have risen faster than petrol/diesel prices in the past few weeks, and the Government can't even guarantee we're going to have electricity for the next 3-4 Christmases, so the promised savings may not materialise, and of course you have the inconvenience of EV (range and re-charging times) over ICE. And if the reports are to be believed, then popular EVs like the Volkswagens, are going to rise by up to €5,000 but ICE equivalent will only rise by €1,200, and it's not as if EVs aren't a lot more expensive over the ICE equivalent as things stand despite all the taxpayers' money spent on cars that aren't that eco-friendly and are nowhere near as convenient as petrol and diesel.

But probably best to make a decision after the budget for sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968876#Comment_117968876

All good words of wisdom - my car is 13 years old and going very well touch wood. I’m loathe to get a new car especially an EV right now as you’re correct they’re way overpriced compared to ICE- but second hand EVs could be dodgy if battery fails stopping them from being a long term investment -I’d consider a second hand phev as with the right level of distance it might help me on most journeys but again there’s always that niggle of expensive ICE servicing if things go wrong.

I dunno what to do but it really looks like petrol and diesel will shoot up close to 3 euro a litre in the next few years- you’d really want to be getting serious MPG if doing many miles per annum. My commute prevents me from buying the cheaper lower range EVs - I’ll need to do more research methinks

MrMusician18

At the moment, a typical diesel costs around 8-10c/km, so that is the price the public can tolerate at this level of economic activity. The aim then will be to have road pricing that keeps the cost per km at a similar level.

I suspect that what we will see are cars reporting milage automatically to a central server and tax bills sent out monthly. This may be coupled with a network of anpr and smart tagging to catch cheats, with the penalties being obscene to discourage that.

While it's supply that's driving energy prices at the moment, I doubt we will see meaningful if any relief in terms of government policy. High prices drive change and innovation and the govt wants to wean us off imported fuel for both environmental and strategic reasons.

The consumer is in for a rough few years on that front.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972165#Comment_117972165

That's far too complicated.

How about a piece of paper that you put on your windscreen.

Road tax will just cost a hell of a lot more in the future for EVs , The lack of fuel duty will have to gotten from somewhere., And the current system works quite well

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975101#Comment_117975101

It has to be complicated, because if you have blanket taxation unrelated to use then it will be either unaffordable, damaging the economy or it will be set at a level where you'll be sure to see people driving everywhere to get "value" for their tax. I have known of people to sit in their car to wait until the parking they've paid for to expire after all!

The price of fuel is an important limiting factor when it comes to limiting congestion. Lowering the price of a journey will see congestion increase. That along with it being a steady revenue earner for the state will ensure it remains a usage based tax.

zg3409

As an EV and Petrol and Diesel owner I can give good advice.

If your weekly fuel bill is low then you are best to hang on to what you have for the following reasons

EVs are changing quickly and bang for buck is improving (even with grants dropping)

There is a lack of good used EVs at reasonable prices and with many EV owners on PCP they won't be selling until they are 3 years old.

Public charging when beyond home range is main downside you can avoid by not switching yet, and hopefully network will improve over time.

If your fuel bill is high it makes sense to switch asap as

50% off tolls (this will go away in a year or two)

Massive savings on fuel often 50 to 80% if you can home charge on night rate.

Low road tax (120 euro)

If you are a 2 car household with a driveway you can use petrol for long trips, thus avoiding main downside, and often second car does not cover massive distances. You can also borrow friends car or use classic car or banger for longer trips.

In terms of fuel prices driving an EV is a massive fuel tax dodge, and savings may fund a classic or banger backup car. You can also hold onto old car for a number of months, and resell used EV with not much depreciation if you change your mind. In my case it made no sense to stick with petrol, financially. After 6 years of long commute I am moving house closer to work, making more savings, but I need to re evaluate my car choices.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975480#Comment_117975480

The government need to get revenue, setting up a system that allows people to work it, so that they drive differently so they pay less, isn't gonna work.

By having set rates of motor tax, you know what type and how many of each car there is, so you know in advance how much the tax take will be.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975940#Comment_117975940

"setting up a system that allows people to work it, so that they drive differently so they pay less, isn't gonna work."

Why not? It's the exact system that we have right now. It would hardly be fair to charge someone that drives 10000km a year, the same as someone that does 100000? You'd end up pushing low mile drivers off the road, resulting in more punishing charges for those that remain.

The only equitable system is road pricing, and it's coming.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975988#Comment_117975988

We are decades behind the UK in terms of anpr.

This fairytale mileage based system is not coming anytime soon .

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976355#Comment_117976355

We are, are we? All the government would need do is extend gosafes remit and you have a mobile enforcement operation.

Road pricing is coming, it's a matter of when, not if.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977629#Comment_117977629

Yes we are.

And as for gosafe.. they aren't on every road all the time.

Road pricing as you want it, isn't coming anytime soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905942#Comment_117905942

Yes nobody in Ireland commutes up to 100 km each way both ways. Nothing to see people . Imagine putting 90 euro a week fuel in your car? Unthinkable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015291#Comment_118015291

Indeed.

Government policy for 20 years has been to push building of sprawling estates in villages not served by public transport. Hundreds of thousands of people between 25 and 45 are having to commute and are now easy prey for such taxes

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015494#Comment_118015494

I agree housing has gone crazy sure look what they have planned for Waterford.

The actual North Quay SDZ would, honestly, be great. Same as Cork marina.

Pity they'll never happen

wotzgoingon

It was a joke got it off Waterford whispers. You would never get planning for something like that in Ireland, that's a picture of part of some city in China.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015932#Comment_118015932

I got it, just saying that the real one is fantastic. As is Cork's drive upwards

Waterford

wotzgoingon

Sure I remember walking a street in Galway city during the recession and stopped and looked at a window and the plans were on show for a mega project in the Galway city docks. I forget the actual plans but they were going to reclaim land from the sea and build a bunch of stuff there

Who knows if that would have gone ahead if there was no recession back in 2009.