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What sort EV can you get for €30,000 if grants are reduced.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    The basic spec e208 and Corsa fall under €30k

    Leaf 40kWh as well

    45kWh ID.3 should be under €30k, if they start selling it here



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭ Buddy Bubs


    Won't get that in Ireland surely. Even Fungi f**ked off



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Do they fall under that price before the existing grants though? I dont think they do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    Why they don't use common sense and tax the likes of polluting Range Rovers out of existence, the things should cost at least €10k per year on road tax alone, and use that to subsidize smaller EVs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Gatorcar


    It's still mad there is no annual tax that takes Nox into consideration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,591 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    It could be back to battery rental. But a iD and half the battery. , rent the second half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    As time moves on I see these large Range Rover, X5, etc things as absolutely obnoxious and have no place at all in our cities - even if they're fueled by the cleanest means it still means they take up too much space, a disproportionate amount of the people who drive them are bullies on the road, I don't want to share space with them anymore, so yes tax them to hell I say. Fair enough if the wealthy owners can swan off to another country to drive them, that's their and the other jurisdictions problem, but we have the power to sort out our own house.

    I read somewhere last week that some European manufacturers are questioning the future of the estate car due to the uptake on these things. I believe that we are losing all the fuel efficiency gains to the inefficient SUV brigade. The world is gone plain mad.

    Edit: Here it is https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercedes-benz-hints-uncertain-future-estate-models

    Post edited by Orebro on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Fair point, I was thinking of cars under €30k post grants

    When they reduced the grant in the UK then magically all the manufacturers released lower spec versions which still got the grant

    The grants are going to go at some point, but I think €30k is too low, €40k is more realistic with current production costs



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    If they reduce it to 30k wait and watch VW and the others produce models that'll make the grade. The subsidies have to start going, they can't carry on forever. We've had long enough to get people to move, time to put away the carrot and take out the stick.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    The VRT relief of €5,000 is already impossible to achieve, the maximum today is a car with an OMSP of €43,000, which receives a relief of €3,000. I ran the numbers for a relief of €30,000 to €40,000 and compared them to prices under the current scheme.




  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ handpref


    Going by Liam’s figures that’s an extra €2870 I’d have to pay if my car lands in January - that’s a balls and will probably result in me cancelling the order.

    I thought they wanted 1 million ev’s on the road by 2030-

    Or maybe I’m wasting my time even thinking about something that I don’t know is concrete.

    Either way it’s still a balls.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    If they kept the same mechanism as today, but changed the VRT relief to a cap of €2,500 the numbers would be much less jarring. With the added benefit of the headline sounding much more reasonable.





  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    Just a small point.

    If they tax the RRs out of existence where will the revenue come from to subsidise EVS?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    The subsidies are being phased out so we won't need them after the RRs are extinct :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    Sorry I thought you were serious when you said they should tax the RRs out of existence and use the money raised to subsidise EVs.

    I f we don't need the money to subsidise the EVs why make the RRs extinct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    As time moves on I see these large Range Rover, X5, etc things as absolutely obnoxious and have no place at all in our cities - even if they're fueled by the cleanest means it still means they take up too much space, a disproportionate amount of the people who drive them are bullies on the road, I don't want to share space with them anymore, so yes tax them to hell I say.

    Ah, it's more of an "I want unadulterated urban space/fcuk the rich" ideology so, rather than a purely environmental argument. The Model S Plaid (over 1000hp!) & Mercedes EQS (humongous, heavy battery!) must be repulsive too, being both overt signs of opulence & extremely inefficient/wasteful of resources/take up loads of space.

    Remember one thing when calling for the stick. Today, you may be the one wielding it but one day, it will inevitably be used on you!

    As the Garda did during lockdowns;

    1. engage (as we are here!)
    2. explain (benefits of EVs, think of the kids etc.)
    3. encourage (look at my lovely electric Tesla!)
    4. entice (save €10k on this lovely new 1000hp Tesla).

    No sticks! We're all in this together! Let's put our shoulders to the wheel & celebrate the 1000hp tri-motor Plaid (grant aided & subsidised by us plebs!).




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    The UK market is large though. We're tiny & inconsequential for manufacturers. We're also still in the €U, a tiny island waaay off the continental coast & demand RHD cars. We're told we're also one of the wealthiest countries in the €U, with the highest property prices, highest energy costs, highest cost of living generally etc. I really can't see manufacturers dropping prices here to ensure buyers can avail of a grant, which will end shortly anyway.

    No, we're very much a captive audience here, unable to source cars from the UK now & at the mercy of whatever manufacturers want to charge us. Prices are on the up. We're looking at €40/50k minimum now to get behind the wheel of a mainstream BEV, VW, Skoda/Hyundai etc.

    It'll ultimately stagnate sales once the supply of the wealthy, who can afford those rates, are exhausted. There'll be less used, hence affordable, BEVs available in the years to come then too. It's a lose, lose IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Well in the short term I agree, chip shortages plus healthy demand are pushing car manufacturers to produce more expensive and profitable models. VW has suspended all orders on the 45kWh ID.3 for example to focus on the bigger battery version

    Pretty ironic IMO, remember a few years ago when batteries were the bottleneck? Now they seem to have too many to go around

    I think the best solution would be to switch the country over to LHD 😁



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭ Old diesel


    This Govt commissioned report appears to take a different view

    Havent read the actual report which is linked in the press release.

    But seems to recommend keeping current incentives and suggest more needed



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    A NI import



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭ MightyMunster


    Many reasons people don't like SUVs, safety - twice as likely to kill a pedestrian at slow speeds.

    Use more resources to produce without providing additional space, greater towing capacity etc...

    Why would a Tesla which has mass produced one of the most economical cars ever made be taxed out of existence?






  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz


    efficiency is a good reason to subsidize any sort of car, however the vast majority of electric cars are twice as efficient as ICE, so being electric is probably a good enough first criteria

    After that its about getting mom and pop out of ICE without wasting public funds on people who dont need to be helped.

    The government has no place spending your taxes ( and mine!) helping people buy cars with good 0-60 second performance characteristics, if anything it should be number of shopping bags and kids etc under 40K IMO



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    You can't tax a second hand RR "out of existence" when there's no EV replacement.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    The gist of the report is extend the current system for 1 more year, and look to introduce new supports for infra and dealer education. With a caveat that supports should be withdrawn in future years as the market share increases, a sentiment that I think most people would agree with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ handpref



    Spot on-

    "The retention of existing EV supports – grants for EV purchase and home charging - until at least the end of 2022."



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    a sentiment that I think most people would agree with.

    For sure, but we didnt need a massive committee of people and 1-2yrs of discussions to come to those conclusions?!

    They really should have come up with concrete proposals in that timeframe and laid out a plan/timeline to implement it. All they've done is kicked the can down the road and set the SEAI up for more funding. Its a poor result in my view, considering the time that has passed and how long it will take for this OLEV thing to start and for them to rediscuss everything again and go through more budgetry cycles.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Extending the current VRT Rebate and SEAI grants to 2022 were just 2 out of 14 areas that are contained in the report.

    The committee also looked at other areas.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Did they come up with much in terms of new initiatives?

    Alot of what I saw was "Consider", "Look at" or just stating a problem that existed but no solutions. They seemed to pass the buck to OLEV.

    Put another way, if I was the Minister and I was preparing for the upcoming budget, what would I be able to get out of this report and actually implement other than give SEAI more money to setup OLEV?



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