Bollards along cycling lanes in Cork

Diabhalta

Alright so what's the story with these?

First of all it looks horrible, second it just looks stupid.

It really isn't a good idea, basically an eyesore and it's everywhere.

...and here's why it's wrong:

how do you overtake a slower cyclist(s)? You don't. Unless there's a gap big enough to do that so I guess you have to be patient.

you can do that here I guess, but you gotta be quick:

They are in the way so the bus driver has to pull into the bus stop like this. I guess you have to watch your step when you're getting on.

Particulary here on Harbourview road it's a perfect example. You can't drive around a car that stops to turn. Buses and lorries couldn't do that anyway, but in a car you could do that. So now you have to stop and accelerate from a standstill if there's an obstacle ahead of you. You basically create more emissions because you have to use the first gear, it was definitely more rational to drive around a car using the cycling lane, now you burn more fuel as a result.

By the way, absolute miminum people cycle on Harbourview road. 2-3 per hour is too much, but you have hundreds of cars driving up and down this road every hour. Cycling is definitely more environmentally friendly, but stopping cars on a busy road to make them all burn more petrol definitely isn't. So this is the biggest downside of putting these bollards (almost) everywhere.

This guy knows what's going on so I was able to drive around him, but it was really close. Most people did this before these bollards were put on the road, everyone knows there's cars behind them and those people want to keep going so you drive closest to the center line you can to let them through.

thanks seat driver, that was cool. Hopefully most people will keep doing this, but it's pain in the hole most of the times. I am just hoping nobody will be turning when I drive here. Like seriously, wtf.

Diabhalta

Also, who is gonna be cleaning them? In Ballincollig they are quite dirty already, what are they gonna look like after the winter? Birds sit on them and sh1t on them. Just weird to look at.

Who is gonna clean them one by one so? I would like to know. They are like one month old and already somewhere they are bent and broken. What are they gonna look like in two or three years?

Spook_ie

Isn't this duplicated in the Cork City thread?

Charles Babbage

Do they sweep the cycle path? In Belfast there was broken glass etc accumulating in the cycle path causing punctures, as the road sweeper truck could only sweep beyond the bollards, so the cyclists moved out on to the road.

magicbastarder

looks like the thread didn't land the way the OP wanted in the cork thread so he's reposted here.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117880095#Comment_117880095

it's actually reposted here becase it fits here better. It's a motoring issue.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117880087#Comment_117880087

really? hilarious.

Speedline

There are narrow road sweeping vehicles available for cycle lanes.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117880324#Comment_117880324

They probably cant afford one in Cork after spending so much money on a tree, that isnt actually a tree.

Wishbone Ash

Regarding passing a slower cyclist - there's no obligation to use the cycling track so simply move out onto the other part of the road when safe to do so and pass the slower cyclist. (I appreciate that this can sometimes lead to horn blowing from ignorant motorists who are unaware of the normal road traffic regulations).

Atlantic Dawn

It would be better if they fined cars parked in the cycle lane €5.6million for the first offence.

Flinty997

Is this the road...

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40339175.html

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/woman-lucky-escape-car-flips-21056726

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117880381#Comment_117880381

If you pull out in front of other traffic forcing it to change velocity than that is clearly a breach of all traffic regulations. If you do not cause this then probably nobody will sound their horn.

If rad space has been seized for a cycle track then there should be a clear obligation to use it.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882051#Comment_117882051

I did say when it is safe to do so. Even when you take up a position in a safe manner, you will still get motorists who will then speed up to get an opportunity to be annoyed with a cyclist who is doing nothing illegal.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881808#Comment_117881808

yes, that's the road... where two crashes happened in one and half year. Given the volume of traffic on daily basis two crashes are acceptable.

btw. I passed the first crash in February 2020. Fellas were going crazy fast in the middle of the night and fled the scene leaving the girl behind. It could have happened anywhere so it's not the road's fault.

Diabhalta

So here you have it, it was straight just two days ago.

It doesn't matter who is causing this. Cars, pedestrians, cyclists, whales, aliens... they are out there for 6 weeks only, mark my words this will get only worse and worse...

Markcheese

So the bollards are their to protect cyclists and make them feel less vulnerable-

And people think they should be removed because people can't keep their car straight enough to not hit a bollard in a line of bollards -

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882121#Comment_117882121

You reckon the residents started a media campaign over two crashes...? Seems unlikely....

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882138#Comment_117882138

6 weeks and they've damaged ...one... horrific.

That's what has you upset. Not the car on it's roof or someone killed.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882230#Comment_117882230

Must be those in cars that came without steering wheels, because if you have one, and hit those bollards, you simply shouldn't be driving.

cpoh1

Its common across europe to segregate traffic from vulnerable road users, how some find this additional safety measure a bad thing is beyond me.

As ive recently seen these new bollards also have the added bonus of preventing people from parking in dedicated cycle lanes, again a positive.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884311#Comment_117884311

Have you ever come off your bike, or tipped something while parking? Because if you have, you should simply stick to walking. And if you've ever twisted your ankle, you should simply stick to crawling. See, this hand wringing get ridiculous very quickly.

As a cyclist I'm in favour of these the vast majority of the time, but there are some unintended consequences and poor implementation in certain areas which need to be addressed.

I've seen cyclists hit them on plenty of occasions, and one in particular go over the bars in front of a car after hitting the front wheel on the base of a broken bollard which he didn't see. Overtaking other cyclists can be more difficult. The bollards themselves get dirty, and it makes the lane much more difficult to clean for road sweepers. They further enforce and us vs. them attitude among some cyclist and drivers. Cyclists sometimes bunch up trying to funnel into the lane in time.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882051#Comment_117882051

Just for clarity, the cycle lanes in the above images are all part of the driving lane on the road and are not a separate lane or roadway. Legally, they are not a separate lane. Therefore, a cyclist cannot pull out in front of traffic coming from behind because they currentrly occupy that lane and the car coming up needs to overtake them.

As for someone on a bike suddenly changing course, drivers are advised to expect this. People on bikes need to swerve to avoid defects or debris on the road. They need to swerve to avoid people opening car doors suddenly without looking. etc. You as a driver should know this and should be conscious of it when approaching someone on a bike. If a driver is not expecting this then we should be asking why we tolerate incommpetence when supposedly in control of a fast moving lump of metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB9d-c-M7D0

As for your belief that there shuld be a clear obligation to use a cycle lane - why? I could be turning a short bit up ahead, I may be chooisng to not have to yield frequently to private entrances. I may choose to not use the cycle path because they generally are built to suit drivers and not cyclists. If someone sat their arse on a bike for a bit they would know this, but, hey ho, here we are again with the usual negative diatribe about cyclists.

magicbastarder

the use of the word 'seized' is weird too. what's wrong with allocated?

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884772#Comment_117884772

So when a car (safely) overtakes a cyclist and indicates 50 m further on to turn into the garage or at some lights you won't be claiming that the cyclist has the right of way because the car is crossing a traffic lane?

I only ask because I have had several posters on boards claim that when a car is turning left they are crossing a lane of traffic

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/T4C35HRN362N/queue.jpg

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887470#Comment_117887470

What you are claiming is that the car succesfully overtook the cyclist and had sufficient room to take the turn.

The reality is that 50m is not very far in which to overtake a moving cyclist and then turn. When travelling, I could cover that distance in well under ten seconds. Are you saying that is enough time for the driver to complete the full manoeuvre and not force the VRU to have to take evasive action? (If you are then you're wrong!)

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887538#Comment_117887538

Not necessarily, could apply to a fast moving cyclist approaching a left turning vehicle, not having overtaken the cyclist, the same situstion arises, and often the same claims that the motorist should cede to the cyclist as they are in a seperate traffic lane.

Just looking for some clarity here, so the next time the argument arises I can refer them to your post

Flinty997

It's two swimming pools, or 10+ car lengths.

If the car is in front and indicating. As a cyclist you can't overtake on the inside.

"...However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you..."

50m in 10 secs is 18 km/h

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887615#Comment_117887615

I answered your question. You've literally just moved your own goalposts.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887615#Comment_117887615

The issue is not right off way.

The main responsibility is to not endanger the cyclist.

magicbastarder

funny, i got left hooked by a motorist today who clearly needs to go back to driving school.

anyway, if a motorist passes a cyclist doing 30km/h, 50m from a junction, and the motorist is doing 40, that's a 1.5s gap between the two of them arriving at the junction.

Flinty997

If cars kept an appropriate distance there would be no need for the wands.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887666#Comment_117887666

So answer the newly posed question then, I've accepted that you might have a point with the timings so what if it is the newer scenario? Is it a single traffic lane and as such subject to SI332 of 2012 and overtaking on the left

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887675#Comment_117887675

Actually it depends on if you think SI332 of 2012 applies to roads with a cycle lane denoted by a broken line.

As I mentioned I have had cyclists arguing that turning left across such broken lines is the car changing lanes and as such must cede at all times to cyclists overtaking on the left.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887910#Comment_117887910

Can you be more specific as to the part of the legislation you are referring to with this?

What previous discussion are you trying to solve here?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887913#Comment_117887913

You're basically arguing can a driver cut across a cyclist regardless if it endangers them. Using the argument of "right of way".

That's already been answered, and should be obvious.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888065#Comment_117888065

I guess it comes down to habit. wait 10 sec for the cyclist to pass the junction or, overtake and cross in front of them.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888124#Comment_117888124

No, I'm arguing that if there is a specific law prohibiting something, then if you willingly break that law, then there should be consequences for the law breaker, not Carte Blanche to pass it all on to the driver of a vehicle. Which whenever people drag up VRUs is what a lot of people seem to think.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888735#Comment_117888735

Law breakers are not immune to consequences as you suggest. The driver still has an obligation to avoid an accident if they can.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888735#Comment_117888735

You're trying to prove a point that, I believe, is unrelated to the thread, simply because of your anti-cyclist bias.

Can you point out to some specific examples of where a VRU was given "carte blanche to pass it all on to the driver of a vehicle" after they broke the law?

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884663#Comment_117884663

I've been hit by a car and a bus though, both deemed to be at fault by the legal system.

Might just be easier to ban buses and cars following your logic.

I'll save a fortune on all my motoring costs though, gotta look in the bright side.

Seriously though, the argument they get dirty is stretching for reasons to say they can be dangerous.

The us Vs them illogic is in the small minds of people, society has better things to be doing than stooping down to the LCD.

Rothmans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888905#Comment_117888905

I understand where spook is coming from. You're stating that the cycling lane and the main driving lane are one in the same thing and that there is no distinction between them. He's stating if that is the case, then cyclists must always yield to left turning vehicles as cyclists are at that point overtaking on the left, regardless of whether or not they are in a cycling lane.

I have always understood that lanes that are signposted and marked as cycling lanes are indeed cycle lanes. Lanes being the operative word. As such, they are a distinct lane in and of themselves, are they not? I think that's where the confusion is arising here.

Can you cite any authority which shows that cycle lanes aren't a distinct lane? It would make no sense to me, as it would make cycling lanes redundant.

Also, how could contra flow cycle lanes exist? As technically, if it was a not distinct lane, the cyclist would be effectively cycling against traffic.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884596#Comment_117884596

No it's not really common.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882261#Comment_117882261

I took a picture of one yes, that particular one was damaged by some kids .. no vehicle hit it.

look, it obviously wasn't a good idea this whole thing with bollards, you can also clearly see rubbish building up in those lanes over time... but hey, as long as those two cyclists using that lane in one hour are safe that's all that matters?

I am surprised it's still there and no kids took it as souvenir.

Diabhalta

and btw. cars seem to be an issue for cyclists, but cyclists are issue to both cars and pedestrians.

Here are some recent examples, from my dashcam.

This suicidal maniac crossed the road right in front of that Audi. Driver in an Audi had to break to avoid collision. The guy on a bicycle just went for it without even thinking what he's doing is wrong. Insane behaviour.

here, typical behaviour. Breaking the red light, not a biggie...

Turning left this guy nonshalantly coming at me from the right. And I am looking at him like excuse me do you mind, can I drive my car here?

only to go straight into the crowd seconds later, btw. that woman on his right had to stop walking because he was such an idiot that he just completely ignored her.

followed by a guy on an electric moped type of thing... nothing unusual here right? completely normal to go among walking people.

Diabhalta

cyclists should shut up and be quiet. stay in your cycling lane or by the side of the road and everything will be cool.. if you want to cycle on the footpath.. well then don't just walk next to the bicycle you absolute dopes!

cc

If you can't pick a single to thread to post your identical frustrations, i'd hate to see your lane discipline when driving.

Diabhalta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117943149#Comment_117943149

frustrations? I am not frustrated, irritated maybe yes. I don't see what's the connection with the actual issue(s). Bring valid arguments, not nonsense.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942922#Comment_117942922

Rubbish builds up on the side of the road, regardless of bollards.

In most of your photos there's no cars using the roads, so might as well reduce the lanes available to cars if they aren't doing to use them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942948#Comment_117942948

Don't just walk next to the bicycle?

Ok I won't.

Flinty997

You should offer help with the on the spot fines.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40103225.html