The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy

Spencer101

It always seemed in the reports that there was fairly extensive legal action by the Molloy family post 1985 to regain Fr Molloy's estate. In some instances to use a recent well publicized phrase ' recollections may differ' and as a result nothing might have come of specific claims the Molloy's thought were well grounded. E.g A cousin believed Fr Molloy had a Jack B Yeats picture in Kilcoursey house whereas the Flynns said he had taken his pictures away in I think 1983. The Today Tonight show talks about a 60 acre parcel of land near a by-pass and in the year or two before Fr Molloy's death he and Therese had sold about 15-20 acres of the land for the original overall price. The 40 acres were kept as tenants in common but the Molloy family only found out about this as a result of the research done by Today Tonight in 1987. I need to re-read the McGinn report I think whereas the Today Tonight show estimated the jointly owned 7/8 horses were worth £70,000 or some such figure the Flynns said some were sold and the buyers were abroad and refused to pay the full fee and/or there were substantial vet bills in relation to some of the horses. It's not my area but I found it slightly odd that Fr Molloy and Therese Flynn had 4-5 joint accounts for their horse trading/ land business in several different bank branches.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862710#Comment_117862710

Seemed to be a profitable partnership.... certainly didn't look like it was for the love of horses alone that put them together but the lucrative earning potential for both partners

Trigger Happy

Niall Molloy was in the Irish college in Rome with my uncle. He became friends with my mother at that time too when she went to live in rome for a bit. So they became friends and he presided of her marriage to my dad a few years later back in ireland. By the time of his death the friendship had waned but the news hit my uncle and mother hard.

In their eyes Niall Molloy was just one of life's nice people.

The travesty that was the aftermath of his death (investigation and trial) is a disgrace. That the first person called after he died was the local priest. Then an hour later the called a doctor. And then another hour after that the Gardai are called and asked to 'help avoid this becoming a scandal'. Like WTF - more like the 1920's than the 1980s.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862173#Comment_117862173

Correct, but I think they were called Richspeed. He had one in the Galway Shopping center Headford road too. The chap that managed the Galway one eventually took it over and it is still there today but moved to a smaller unit along with changing it's name a few year ago.

White lighting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861524#Comment_117861524

That's what I was alway led to believe. Still alive and living in Enniskerry I think.

Spencer101

There was obviously a lot of speculation and gossip about the case. In McGinn's report the then DPP had to deny he was a godfather to one of the Flynn children - the cold case team or whatever they are called went to the trouble of checking the baptism records for the Flynn children from the late 1950s to the early 1960s. The 'high society' side of the wedding might have been over done a bit. Therese Flynn was in college with Ann Lenihan and stayed friends with her. I don't know the overall attendance at the house but the Bridge House hotel sent 30-40 staff or something like that for the catering so it was a reasonable size. Amidst presumably a large crowd there was also in addition to Lenihan a member of the Fianna Fail National Executive which from memory is (or was) quite a large committee.

Kevin Forde is quoted in the report as having been stationed in Clara from 1980 to 1997 and said that the Flynns pre 1985 were not known to the station in relation to even the most minor of motoring offence. No summonses had ever been pulled or alleged influence brought to bear.

McGinn tends to find no evidence that Frank Roe wrote to the DPP claiming he knew Mr and Mrs Flynn and Fr Molloy. The Judge's usher/ tip staff was still alive at the time of McGinn's report and claimed never to have driven Roe to any meeting where he met the Flynns or Molloy. David Flynn is also quoted in the report as denying a rumour that his mother stopped speaking to him after the death of Fr Molloy albeit he concedes that their relationship did change.

cap.in.hand.

There is a article in the indo from Jan 2013 from a interview with a Dr Kate Flynn who is based in South Africa and Richard Flynn is her uncle with David Flynn her 1st cousin...she said in that newspaper interview that David Flynn should now say what he said he couldn't say during that rte interview after the inquest....and I'd say she doesn't believe her uncle caused the death of fr Molloy

Spencer101

David Flynn was re-interviewed in 2012/2013 and that interview was quoted in McGinn report. The gist of his not that intelligible explanation for the post inquest interview was that he could have addressed some speculation. Except he did not. It wasn't the right time. Exactly what strand of the speculation he was going to attack he did not say (in 2012/2013) and how he was going to do it again he didn't say. So that cleared all that up.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864993#Comment_117864993

That's good enough....in fairness during that interview...he looked and acted like a rabbit dazzled by headlights...but his cousin in her newspaper interview seemed to be siding with the Molloy family in seeking what really happened in the Flynn home that evening.

brooke 2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862108#Comment_117862108

I agree wholeheartedly. That programme was excellent, with so much information,

some of which I was hearing for the first time. I did not get the name of the presenter,

who was brilliant, but, obviously, not a media star!

Galwayguy35

It beggers belief the actions of the judge at the time, wonder did a large brown envelope change hands?

The Flynn kids must be in their late 50s now I suppose so still young enough to remember clearly what went on, maybe someday one of them will decide to open up.

HildaOgdenx

Watched part 1 on the RTE Player just now. So awful. I remember the case, but had forgotten the details of the trial and so on.

It's heartbreaking, listening to his family, knowing that the truth is unlikely ever to be known.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865073#Comment_117865073

..in fairness during that interview...he looked and acted like a rabbit dazzled by headlights.

What interview is this referring to?

Tork

https://frniallmolloy.com/statement-from-david-flynn/ Is it this one?

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865339#Comment_117865339

Actually looking at it again...he seems quite composed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865361#Comment_117865361

Thanks. i don't know. the rte link it goes to it won't play for me .just a black space. in edge i get a prompt to update flash but trying give messge that its discontinued

Tork

The transcription of what he said is just above the video. It was in this week's documentary as well

***************"

In the clip, an RTÉ reporter asked David Flynn if his family had found it very difficult to handle the rumours and speculation surrounding the case.

He replied: “Extremely difficult. It’s very difficult, maybe, when one knows certain answers and isn’t in a position to comment. It makes it very difficult to live with.”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865572#Comment_117865572

ok thanks i just got this weeks but haven't watched. i saw the transcript I wanted to see the headlights look

Tork

I had no trouble viewing the video clip on my phone or on the computer

batman75

From what we know Fr Molloy was attacked and didn't have the ability to defend himself. Money aside my theory is maybe Richard Flynn discovered the Fr Molloy was the father of his daughter and he lashed out at both Fr Molloy and his wife Theresa. By all accounts David Flynn's relationship with his mother was never the same after the death of Fr Molloy.

Trigger Happy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866466#Comment_117866466

That's a big bit of speculation to be throwing out there with zero evidence. Those who knew Fr Molloy have always been clear that he was not the type of fella to be chasing women. Certainly my own family's experience is that he was never anything less than a gentleman.

It is possible for a man and woman to be friends and to work together without sleeping together.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866493#Comment_117866493

My opinion would be the same. I expect the reason FR Molloy got killed was over money and land. The Flynn's seem in financial trouble. Molloy had lend them money and had money tied up in ventures with them.

It's interesting that Theressa Flynn tried to cash in a Life Assurance policy belong to him. How she had access to it is questionable. Richard Flynn seemed to have financial trouble from different area's. Revenue, banks and his business may have been in trouble as well.

This was 1987, we were after 6-7 years of recession and faced into 2&3 more. A lot of rural Ireland was a ghost town. At least along the west coast you had tourism for 4-6 months of the year. The marginal tax rate was over 60% inc PRSI. For some running a business especially a limited company there was huge temptation to take money out in cash, saving vat and tax and company tax if you had to take money as a dividend.

I know of a businessman from where I originates from taught he was a personal friend of Charles Haughey. Revenue got there tentacles into him. Often the biggest issue for these people was finding a legal way to buy back the business as the money was stashed overseas. This businessman got a loan from a bank in Chicago to buy the business which revenue had put in liquidation.

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866493#Comment_117866493

Exactly.

The respect and love shown by Fr Molloy's family, and friends, in that programme and the fact that they have devoted so much time and effort to this, says a lot also, in my opinion.

And I think it's always a good idea to try to imagine if this was a member of your own family, whose murder was never solved, how would you feel seeing baseless speculation like that, about them.

batman75

It does sound like he was apprehensive about going to Kilcoursey that weekend. Given that Theresa Flynn needed medical attention in Tullamore it is understandable why people would speculate as to why her husband hit her. I have no doubt that Fr Molloy was a man of good repute and his family deserve that David Flynn once and for all put an end to speculation by giving a definitive account of what happened that night. Justice cannot most likely be served at this point but at least let the truth come out.

If David Flynn truly feels remorse for what happened to Fr Molloy he would come forward and let the truth be known.

ernielove

I agree with the money and land theory. I don't think the father did it. He was too composed. I think that there were people all in the house at circa 10pm and so the timeline put forward by the family is potentially fabricated. I think a row ensued and someone lost it momentarily at around the time the watch stopped. They all saw what had happened and they spent the intervening hours trying to garner unanimity as regards to the chain of events/story that they would present to the Investigators - and conceivably tagging everyone with an accessory label to scare them into silence. I believe, having read somewhere that legal advice was sought in the interim which might lend to this theory. However I could have it all crossways. Who really knows.

What does strike me as extremely callous is the fact that the poor man was still alive for a considerable duration according to reports. It must have rotted the family though - knowing the full facts. There can be no peace for either family.

I wonder what became of the house?? does anyone know??

I can “understand” in the broadest sense of that word, how someone owed money might take to violence in order to retrieve that money, especially if they felt they were being swindled in some way.

however, it was Fr Molloy that was owed money but yet it was he that was killed- and by all accounts he didn’t inflict injuries to any other person- why would you kill the person you owed money to? I mean, you could tell them “I don”t have it” “sue me” “our friendship is finished”- but you don”t kill them-

no-I’m not going to believe Fr Molloy died because he was owed money- the debt owed to him may have been a catalyst in all of this but it wasn’t the central issue here-

and why wait until he’s dead before calling for medical assistance and the guards? 999 was a service available in the 1980s- someone wanted him dead and I don’t believe the motive was over a debt owed to him- it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Talisman

I haven't watched the program. Was there any mention of the coffee table that was broken or the missing ornament that used to reside on it?

ernielove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867568#Comment_117867568

so whats your theory then?

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867115#Comment_117867115

There were all sorts of rumours flying around in the aftermath of the incident. Most of them seemed fanciful. It was said Molloy and Theresa were having an affair even though there was no indication that they ever had. Another was that they were in fact half-siblings. This came about due to a rumoured relationship between Molloy's father and Theresa's mother. Another had it that it was Molloy who was in financial difficulty and he owed the Flynn's a large sum of money - not the other way around. Now, in the aftermath of this weeks documentary, speculation surrounds David Flynn and his possible role in the death of Fr. Molloy. If he is keeping a deep,dark secret it's likely he will carry it with him to his own grave.

Addle

If the Flynn’s were in such financial bother, how did they manage to get people on side/pay them off after the murder?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867677#Comment_117867677

Eh I wasn’t aware I needed one to post here? I’m quite free to post my views on other people speculation without requiring a stupid speculative theory of my own-there’s enough bullsh1t “theories” posted in this thread without me adding another one

Spencer101

David Flynn's interview quoted in the McGinn report said something like in one way Fr Molloy and Therese Flynn were closer than a married couple- staying in a hotel at Dublin horse show together, drinking heavily at night with one another. In the wider Flynn family may that have been a negative issue ? Whereas there has to be someone at the wedding, whether they were a Flynn or not who took offence to the fact that the priest who lived close to half the week at Kilcoursey didn't conduct the wedding and showed up late for the meal. I find it near impossible that even if Fr Molloy was having an affair with Therese Flynn that it had just started and/or in his 53rd year after knowing the Flynns for 30 years it was just discovered. Unless someone has very good evidence I tend to think there was no affair and the row was about money & not conducting the wedding and perhaps other non sexual issues.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867473#Comment_117867473

I also wonder was the house bought because at the time they said it could make up to £300,000 back then.

ernielove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867717#Comment_117867717

yeah i think you are right on your last point.

ernielove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867791#Comment_117867791

its all opinion, conjecture and peoples interpretations of what they have seen. Of course all of it is speculative but there are gaps in the events etc which lead people to draw their own conclusions - whether they are BS in the opinion of others or not. I very much doubt we will ever know the real events but having watched the show and the doc on youtube and read the website articles I have done a couple of 1-80's as regards to what I thought intially and what i think now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867877#Comment_117867877

Fair enough- I just didn’t want to be adding conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory as that just makes a thread go off the rails and fiction quickly becomes fact.

I could post all sorts of theories here but I wouldn’t be any closer to the truth.

the McGinn report unfortunately paints a bleak picture in terms of us ever finding the truth or anything near the truth- there are witnesses still alive today that could at least bring some closure but I fear at the very most, they won’t provide any statement, at least not while they’re alive- maybe a statement will issue sometime down the road when those who have most to lose from the truth coming out have died

In the meantime maybe the most we can hope for is a death bed confession or someone in their elderly years gripped with fear and remorse

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867801#Comment_117867801

Actually that's a good point...his relationship with the Flynn family would make it almost compulsory that he would perform the wedding ceremony... Doing the other ordinary wedding the same day doesn't look his style..they could have planned different wedding date if they really wanted him and he available.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867568#Comment_117867568

Ah FFS.

You don't think people would kill for money.

Molloy might lift the lit on a lot dodgy dealings.

After all wasn't he supposed to be buying land off Richard in partnership with Theresa.

How was that going to work unless Theresa had substantial monies of her own separate from Richard.

If the investment and partnerships with Theresa were proven to be a sham, they would lose everything including their status as the landed gentry.

And never forget this was Ireland of the 80s where local status was still something very important.

Fr Molloy's house was broken into and searched for papers.

Were the Flynns removing evidence of their dealings with him?

I would say the following:

• one if not more of the Flynns are/were murderers.
• family friends in the house that helped them
• they used their local position and the churches distaste for sexual scandal (claims the priest was at it with Theresa maybe) to get local priest to play along
• they used friendly doctor to play along.
• they got a friendly judge to subvert justice (yes the late highyl touted judge was a sleeveen)
• high ranking fianna fail members were connected to the family and would gladly facilitate church requests to avoid possible scandals.
• gardai would also listen to requests from fianna fail and the church.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867754#Comment_117867754

it is not just about money.

It is connections and favours. You scratch my back, I scratch yours someday when you need it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117860835#Comment_117860835

Look into most scandals in Ireland and you find church, major political parties, gardai and sometimes the GAA.

ernielove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867999#Comment_117867999

I agree with you on this. The only way it can happen now is probably a deathbed confession or as you suggest. I said the same to my wife and she replied 'well yeah but what if they themselves have family/ kids... how will it affect them (ie the family) and their lives to be associated with this and for it to be all over the newspapers and TV...' and there is such a fascination with this case that it would be for ages. So to be honest Id be very surprised if there will even be a confession. But we live in hope I guess for the sake of the Molloy family if nothing else.

That’s not what I said- people will kill for money - but it’s usually the person who’s owed money that will do the killing- the opposite has happened in this case - it makes no sense to kill the person you owe money to, especially if they’ve been a life long friend - yes the debt is likely cancelled but you’re in a whole other level of doo doo at that point.

i can understand a blow thrown in anger in this scenario with likely immediate regret for doing so- but Fr Molloy was brutally attacked and deliberately left to die- that makes no sense to me- it wasn’t “just” money that he died so brutally.

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867801#Comment_117867801

I knew Fr Molloy, but I was not his friend or confidant. He always struck me exactly how he was described in the program - a pleasant, affable gentleman( in all the good and positive meanings of the word). I never heard a word of speculation of him being "a boyo with the ladies". His interest in horses was longstanding and well known.

After that I can only speculate like others. I always assumed that this was caused by money, and that the circumstances in which he died were close to what was described by Richard Flynn.

I find it hard to believe the story of a crowd witnessing the act itself. Someone would have spilled the beans since then if this was the case. I have to admit that I am puzzled about why Fr Molloy (appeared to be) planning to tackle his friends about non repayment of a personal loan. Was the weekend of their family wedding, much less on the day after the big day, when there appeared to be a second gathering organised not the worst time to do that? I was of the opinion (with no evidence) that Fr Molloy was the one under financial pressure and needed his money back pronto.

I am sceptical over the findings of the re examination of PM material in 2011. This is some 26 years after the event, and stated that 6 odd hours had passed between injury and death. Surely the material had to have deteriorated in the course of the PM and / or 26 years. It seemed to be far too exact to accommodate the gap between when death was reported and guests leaving the party, and I assume the it would have been more obvious at the PM.

I think the real story is what happened in court. How the case was terminated and why. Why no appeal? The DPP reviewed material in 2012, and adjudged there was no merit in proceeding.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868162#Comment_117868162

Whatever the reason for the attack, do you have any view on the brutality of the attack and the lack of medical intervention post attack?

even if you take the “story” of not going downstairs to get others a drink” as the true reason for what happened, it makes no sense to me that they left him to die- here was a family friend of 30 years lay dying in their bedroom and no attempt was made to seek professional medical assistance until it was too late.

Tork

It's obvious that they wanted him to die. Dead men can't talk.

ernielove

My understanding as regards to him not officiating the wedding is because he had a wedding on that day in his own parish. I believe the widely published photo of him in white was taken at that wedding he officiated at. Apparently if there's a conflict of events then the priest must put his own parish first.

Spencer101

Do you not think in the mid 1980s a priest could have got a couple in his parish to delay a wedding a week or two so as not to clash with a wedding at a house he lived in for close to half the month ?

ernielove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868853#Comment_117868853

potentially. I have no idea. One of the fascinating aspects of the case is how Ireland was in the 80's. The cars driven and the houses that the 'monied classes' lived in at the time. Having listened to a podcast on the case from a few months ago it is apparent that these people did not necessarily associate with the normal folk of the town, i dont think they were GAA people, they were horsie set through and through. Its funny therefore that there was a very lavish wedding put on when the payer was obviously in dire straits as regards to personal finances. Ive read elsewhere that the Revenue billed him for over 125k a year or more later for him not having made returns on the three businesses he ran.

Also how does a guy with three shops live in a mansion!??? I get that he sold over 400ha of prime farming land in the mid 70's but what else was there,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868162#Comment_117868162

Fr Molloy may not have been a ladies to man to have been having a long standing affair with the one woman tbh. Wouldn't be that unusual, ime.

akelly02

i may watch it. He married my uncle in roscommon the day before he was murdered!

Spencer101

I thought it was 400 acres of farming land not 400 hectares which is c1,000 acres. There's a reference in Today Tonight to what Molloy & T Flynn paid for c60 acres- this was obviously pre- celtic tiger time so most had no money and as a result land seems remarkably cheap (even when adjusted for inflation)

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868882#Comment_117868882

That wedding it seems may have been paid from the money fr Molloy paid to Richard Flynn bank a/c as down payment for land purchase and maybe this land purchase deal was just a ploy by Mr and Mrs Flynn to secure funding to pay for this lavish wedding event if their cash flow tight at that time