Lidl: 10c for used bottles and cans [Expired]

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856795#Comment_117856795

Not sure where people are getting this from after reading the article in full.

The 10c is purely in relation to Lidl's pilot scheme which does NOT involve payment of a deposit. Essentially it's a very clever PR exercise on Lidl's behalf to bolster their environmental credentials and drive footfall.

The deposit rate(s) for the national scheme have not been set yet but it's suggested it'll be in the region of 20c. Whatever the rate(s) will be, they will be fully refundable.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858043#Comment_117858043

You aren't trying hard enough 😅

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859691#Comment_117859691

and you are trying too hard my friend

sully123

I had a go on the machine earlier today.

Raided the green bin and found 23 items to return. Some plastic, mostly cans. Its quick, few teething problems with not accepting some of the cans. Even takes the little tonic water cans

zell12

Free money! Hope you spent it well!

zell12

https://twitter.com/lidl_ireland/status/1433792681080131584

grimm2005

Was up there today with some bottles from a multipack and none were accepted as they didn't have barcodes. Shame as most multipacks won't have barcodes on the individual bottles

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852910#Comment_117852910

Really not the idea at all.

I lived in Holland 20 years ago and every supermarket charged at the time 10c for every bottle purchased and you returned it you got your money back.They're not recycled then but reused.by the drinks companies.

It's a very simple scheme and it works and should be implemented everywhere here. It will lead to recycling and also stop littering.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856316#Comment_117856316

You know it's very easy to be negative and just see problems with solutions that work.

Why come up with examples that vast majority of people do not behave as you describe above and just because some people will do things wrong then it does not mean a new measure should be introduced.

The scheme is proven to work in other countries decades ago and should be here.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871485#Comment_117871485

We already have recycling from the kerb side. So in order to make the new system work we have to remove the valuable products from the kerbside recycling bins. If the cost of recycling goes up more people will dump illegally.

We already have a huge problem with general litter and fly tipping in this country, something that countries with deposit system don't have, what is a 20c deposit on a PET bottle or Aluminium can going to do to solve this? Just like the big news just announced that you can now put soft plastic in the recycling bin, it's not getting recycled it's just getting burnt somewhere else.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117845309#Comment_117845309

The "machine" is inside the Lidl store in Glenageary on the ground floor.It is being run independent of Lidl.The storage area attached is at least 100 sq m

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856387#Comment_117856387

Crushed cans or bottles are not accepted at the moment.The process is to be reviewed to see if the authentication procees can be refined..Crushed items will be accepted perhaps next year

Atlantic Dawn

Is there any political party against this being implemented? It's going to be an out and out disaster seeing as it's fixing a problem which isn't there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872789#Comment_117872789

What is your counter proposal?

Or are you just having a moan?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854290#Comment_117854290

And yet you still have reams of comments on here stating why it won't work in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856322#Comment_117856322

It's assumed you would do it when you go to do your weekly shop, not go solely for the purpose of returning your cans.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873716#Comment_117873716

Growing numbers of people do their weekly shop online.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873646#Comment_117873646

What's wrong with the current system? Put separate bins in public and we need more enforcement of our litter laws.

The vast majority of my waste is generated in my home. If I buy something outside my home it goes in a bin. If I buy a bottle with a 20c deposit then I'll have to carry it back to my home or bin it because its not worth my while to travel to a shop for 20c back. Its not even worth my while to feed bottles into a machine to get 20c, but I currently recycle everything I can and pay for it to be collected.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874207#Comment_117874207

So just having a moan, thanks for the clarification

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873735#Comment_117873735

I was watching a documentary on lidl last night and it occurred to me that this could be their way of attracting people into their stores in the face of the online shopping surge

zell12

It's free publicity by Lidl, the vouchers probably costs the same as paying for traditional advertising. We're talking about them and it hits our desires to be green

go4it

one of our Dublin team work buddy told us his experience :

• machine scans barcodes ( and probably checks against a database)
• PET (soft plastics ) worked on drink bottles but not on soap container, or non drink stuff ; none of the HDPE (hard plastic) containers worked- milk jug, mayo bottle etc
• aluminium cans worked even without a barcode ( multipack ones ) but he had a hard time with the flatten ones ( machines likes the original form? )

there's a space where to dispose of the rejected plastics , on a side ( not to bring them home again )

the discussion started from the ' insert password please' - seems that one machine was asking for a passcode , the other one had a long line of people. mostly curious ( looks like the lidl staff have a passcode to reboot the machine, in case there's a 'software glitch'

FanadMan

Every shop (or the ones I've been in) from the large supermarkets to the corner store in Finland have been doing this for years. The problem here is that there needs to be a collection system for the returned cans and bottles. There shouldn't be a need for a storage warehouse in each shop, just have regular collections.

It's a great system, especially if you like your beer. Would regularly see alcoholics going through the public bins looking for cans and bottles and taking binbags full to claim the refund....and get more beer.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881120#Comment_117881120

Did Finland previously have home collection for these goods?

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872789#Comment_117872789

I assume by kerbside you mean bottle banks and recycling centres?

The problem is many people don't bother with them. But if people put cans/bottles in them that had a deposit paid on then it's their loss so I don't see how it would make recycling more expensive.

It's also nothing to with fly tipping so I don't see your point there.

A 20ct per bottle or can would work out at €4.80 on a slab 24 cans. I think that would be incentive enough for people to bring stuff back.

Roberto_gas

Used and got 1.6 voucher..valid till end of year

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117881708#Comment_117881708

Kerbside recycling is a truck driving by you home picking up a bin full of recycling materials, compost and general trash.

€4.80 depends on how fast the machine can process the transaction and how much of a queue there is, we all know that there will be rejects from the machine so even longer to get it.

People paid €6 to drink from a plastic glass at home when the pubs reopened for off sales. Do you think that someone who plays 3 times the cost of a can to drink from a plastic glass are going to be worried about 20c deposit?

The only thing that this will do is increase the cost of kerbside recycling by removing the valuable products from it. You already paid the 20c for the privilege of recycling something that costs a few cent to produce and your home recycling costs will increase.

We would be better off educating people on the need to properly segregate their waste so that less of our recycling bins aren't contained. That would improve our recycling a lot more than a 20c deposit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882226#Comment_117882226

I recall a lot of nonsense around the time they brought in and charge for plastic bags.

I doubt many could tell you the last time they saw a plastic bag floating around the street.

It will be the same with this.

Worrying about the possible impact on your home collection, then avoiding packaging altogether and use refillable containers, cloth bags etc etc for bringing home your groceries and get rid of your bins.

Or just keep moaning about the inevitable change Del

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843909#Comment_117843909

And 🇩🇪 , plus in Germany atm ppl use it to top up their old age pension ( saw a doc on same 2 yrs back)

Imagine the environmental impact of instead of kerbside collection done by a small number of lorries for the majority of cans and plastic bottles people have to make an unnecessary car journey to a recycling facility ???? But sure we'll be going there in our ev's won't we?

I'd say add the 20c to single bottles or cans from a centra, circle k or where ever maybe when those will either be chucked or put in general waste bins, multipacks and larger containers (milk, a 2lt of coke etc) are consumed at home and find their way to green bins it makes no sense to change that.

If they go this route it should be as easy to apply the levy as it is to get the levy back and I can't see that happening.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882473#Comment_117882473

I see plenty of bags of rubbish dumped around the place, there's less shopping bags blowing around but we still have a litter problem. If the cost of kerb side collection goes up it'll get worse.

Huge amounts of the recycling collected is contaminated and ends up in the incinerator. Tackling the contamination of the recycling would have a bigger impact than 20c deposits on a few products because trucks full of recyclables are being burnt.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882167#Comment_117882167

Did you have to clean out bottles or cans before the machine was used? If not that could be an advantage over the recycling bin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883208#Comment_117883208

So because waste will have an actual monetary value more of it is going to be disposed of incorrectly?

Hard to see how this will be the outcome as it is in no way a logical outcome.

Has this been the case in other countries where they have been doing this for decades? Surely you have data or studies to back up your moaning

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883910#Comment_117883910

So because waste will have an actual monetary value more of it is going to be disposed of incorrectly?

More of the stuff that has less monetary value will be disposed if incorrectly I guess is the point. The stuff left for the kerbside bins that costs more to process.

Some context around this process where it has been in operation in Germany for several decades. Its not a perfect system and they are tweaking it but the positive effects can not be understated

https://youtu.be/YQ2GOtpYiqk

Roberto_gas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883409#Comment_117883409

Only drinks bottles are allowed…did no cleaning

Pussyhands

Lidl are masters at pretending they're doing something, which gets people yanking them off on social media.

They pay their staff a decent wage which makes people think they're mightly but then they understaff their stores and their workers are run off their feet. Tesco may not pay as well but their floor staff aren't as run off their feet like Lidl's. I saw a massive queue of about 20 people at a till one time and the poor worker was getting asked what was going on by grumpy customers.

I bought their own brand orange juice this week. They have the stupid paper straws yet the whole carton of 8 mini cartons are wrapped in plastic.

They sell kinder bueno packs which have 3 layers of plastic to get into the bar!

They sell wraps and sandwiches packaged in plastic.

Their bakery is completely full of plastic now. I know it's mostly down to covid but imagine all the extra plastic they've used since the start of covid?

I wanted to buy a single carrot and all I saw was a pack of 2kg or a packet with a mix of carrot/parsnip wrapped in plastic.

Next PR attempt I guess will be to bring your own container for re-filling cereal.

Lidl are masters at pretending they're doing something, which gets people yanking them off on social media.

See: marketing & PR

They pay their staff a decent wage which makes people think they're mightly but then they understaff their stores and their workers are run off their feet. Tesco may not pay as well but their floor staff aren't as run off their feet like Lidl's. I saw a massive queue of about 20 people at a till one time and the poor worker was getting asked what was going on by grumpy customers.

They borrow a lot from lean principles and 5S methodologies in that they look to eliminate any opportunity for waste and streamline efficiencies. This means the stores are setup to only need a few staff to operate, for example restocking often takes only a fraction of what it takes in the likes of Tesco, Dunnes etc because the roll out full boxes of stuff and just whack that on to a shelf rather than taking containers out one-by-one and doing merchandising. This has also been streamlined by them engaging with their suppliers who orientate the containers so they all face the same way when they open the box so no merchandising is needed. Sure there are days when staff numbers are lower due to sickness, holidays etc but in general its a well oiled machine.

As for pay rates, they are higher because the expect more from their staff. I guess its a personal choice as to what someone prefers in terms of work/salary.

I bought their own brand orange juice this week. They have the stupid paper straws yet the whole carton of 8 mini cartons are wrapped in plastic.

They sell kinder bueno packs which have 3 layers of plastic to get into the bar!

They sell wraps and sandwiches packaged in plastic.

Their bakery is completely full of plastic now. I know it's mostly down to covid but imagine all the extra plastic they've used since the start of covid?

I wanted to buy a single carrot and all I saw was a pack of 2kg or a packet with a mix of carrot/parsnip wrapped in plastic.

All supermarkets, regardless of brand, are under pressure from multiple sides to eliminate plastics in their packaging and products. This is ongoing with many ceasing the sales of plastic cups, straws, plates etc. Still a buttload to do on this front but its underway

Next PR attempt I guess will be to bring your own container for re-filling cereal.

Again, a lot of places are looking into this and experimenting. If the demand is there it will be rolled out across a lot of products where this makes sense and there are quite a few.

AS for the topic at hand, this will be rolled out to all supermarkets 2022/2023 so Lidl simply pulled off a PR masterstroke and got a load of free publicity

pummice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882167#Comment_117882167

Can the voucher be used in any lidl store or only glenageary?

rubadub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856420#Comment_117856420

Can somebody answer this?

People were saying it will eventually take crushed cans? I know the lidl one does not. Is this the case? are crushed ones taken in other countries. I know a guy who was in Belgium (I think) and was told off for crushing a can, so thought it might not be the case. If crushed are not accepted then this idea that kids or homeless people will do it is not going to work.

Comparing it to the euro in trolleys is ridiculous. If you had to put a fiver or tenner for a trolley and potentially queue up for several minutes to return it, and potentially take another several minites to process the return, then people would similarly be pissed off, esp. those who always did the right thing and did not steal trolleys or leave them flying around car parks knocking into cars.

Comparing to the bag tax/levy is also stupid, I DO see empty bags about the place. Most resuse them, if there was a levy on say bags of crisps, sweet wrappers, or those nets veg come in, and you had to gather them all up and process them in a machine then THAT is more comparable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119170#Comment_118119170

People were saying it will eventually take crushed cans? I know the lidl one does not. Is this the case? are crushed ones taken in other countries. I know a guy who was in Belgium (I think) and was told off for crushing a can, so thought it might not be the case. If crushed are not accepted then this idea that kids or homeless people will do it is not going to work.

I can't see how it would ever take crushed cans if scanning of the barcodes is required. Otherwise you could have folks gaming the system by disposing of material of a similar weight to an empty coke can. Maybe its possible, but I don't see how with my limited knowledge of the process

Comparing it to the euro in trolleys is ridiculous. If you had to put a fiver or tenner for a trolley and potentially queue up for several minutes to return it, and potentially take another several minites to process the return, then people would similarly be pissed off, esp. those who always did the right thing and did not steal trolleys or leave them flying around car parks knocking into cars.

The option remains to not recycle and save your time that way. Personally, if I was segregating the waste and going shopping anyway, it would make perfect sense to take a bag of material with me to the shops. Taking a minute or two more wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Comparing to the bag tax/levy is also stupid, I DO see empty bags about the place. Most resuse them, if there was a levy on say bags of crisps, sweet wrappers, or those nets veg come in, and you had to gather them all up and process them in a machine then THAT is more comparable.

Absolutely, there are still empty bags around, but there are VASTLY fewer bags floating around than there used to be as there is now a value to them. The same will be the case with bottles & cans soon

Atlantic Dawn

Crushed ones are not taken in Germany, they have to be in pretty much perfect condition at the barcode area of the can to be read for the refund amount. It will lead to people needing to waste more time and burn more energy requiring more food input so brings its own CO2 emissions cost, an absolute joke of a solution which is already being catered for by green bin recycling.

Phil.x

If this sh1t comes in, all my rubbish will be going in the general waste and organic bin, glass, tin, metal plastic, wood, garden waste, coal Ash etc etc, I've had enough.

Today I bring back my glass to the local bottle bank, pay for my recycling bin and general waste and religiously segregate my recycling, all done at home, so why the fcuk should I have to pay extra in buying these cans and bottles when I'm recycling and paying for the convenience now. Fcuk eamon ryan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118125875#Comment_118125875

The only one you'll be hurting is yourself as you'll literally be throwing money in the trash

rubadub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119295#Comment_118119295

Right, do you know why a barcode is needed? If cans are saved now could you get money for them when this comes in? or do the barcodes have to be registered and known that the deposit was paid or something? If so that creates even more nonsense. Offies will have to overlabel imported beers, and "grey importers" or stuff like coke cans for takeaways would have to do the same.

So we will not have homeless people or kids picking up cans, as most I see discarded are not in good condition. The unintended consequence of this is that young lads will be buying bottled beers as they will be the cheapest option due to MUP, as the glass will have no deposit, and though bottles are usually more expensive MUP will see to that. So I'll expect lots of broken glass about the place. I cannot imagine gangs of lads going home from a field with big bags of intact cans to get a deposit. Another thing which might happen is people just throwing intact cans on the ground for kids/homeless to collect, "sure its not litter, I am doing them a favour, it's as good as money".

I welcomed the plastic bag levy, the bags should be reused, I already did before the levy. I liked the system in Holland of resuing beer bottles, you got the beer cheaper than in cans as the company was saving. This will likely lead to increases in the price of cans, not including the deposit. A person with a plastic bag and scrumple it up and stick in their pocket and resuse it, an intact dribbling can is not equivalent at all.

zell12

National govt deposit scheme a step closer. Business opportunity ahoy!

The next step is the appointment, by the Minister, of an approved body to operate the scheme. Further engagement is also required with stakeholders, to fix the rate of the deposit to be paid on in-scope bottles and cans.

The scheme is expected to become operational across the country in Quarter 3 of 2022.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/599/made/en/pdf

stopthevoting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119170#Comment_118119170

It was answered in post number 51:

"No, you can be pretty certain that barcodes on all applicable items will change once the scheme is in place. The machines will reject items that a deposit has not been paid on, as is the case currently in the many countries that already operate this system."

And post number 11 said:

"A sting in the tail of the Scottish rollout of these. "Users are rewarded with shopping vouchers worth 10p for each undamaged empty plastic or glass bottle or aluminium can originally bought in Lidl." "

Atlantic Dawn

Worst thought out recycling scheme in the history of the country, fixing a problem that isn't there and creating so many new ones like mass congestion at retail outlets.

Quackster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194055#Comment_118194055

Have used these machines umteem times in umteem countries and have ever encountered an issue with mass congestion.

And this will tackle something that very much currently is an issue - the small percentage that becomes litter, oftentimes in high-impact locations where removal can be very resource-intensive after the fact.

The evidence from elsewhere is once you put a value on this litter, it magically disappears.

go4it

so far, the machine scans barcodes:

-not all barcodes are accepted ( product manufacturer needs to part of the scheme ) but the end user doesn't know if that product will be accepted or not ( will know only based on previous experience ) - in other countries, a small sign on the bottle identifies it as part of the scheme

-multipack bottles/cans won't scan, since they have no barcodes ( you can leave them on the side recycling tote, saving the planet )

There's a message on the machine , saying you can use 1 coupon for shopping on the shop upstairs : at the till you can use more than 1 coupon as long as their combined value caps at 2 euro ( maximum voucher value is 2e ) : the Lidl payment system will accept unlimited coupons ( from a technical point of view) but Lidl staff were trained not to accept more than 2e ( since it's the first to roll out the system Lidl decided to take the lion share - wants you to come more often , to spend on other items aswell, not to stock up on vouchers for a 1 shop deal - you can always split your shopping in smaller batches and pay out with coupons, at same till or same day )

Vouchers show a 31.12.2021 expiration date , but pressed by the public opinion they can honour them into 2022 ( since they were lazy to upgrade the software to give a expiration within 6 months from bottles deposit )

side note : some big retail chains employ expensive consultants and marketing strategists to come up with creative ways to improve people perception on company's ESG ( env-social-gov) stand and principals - sometimes more money is spent on running the project than what gets to the final user ( community kids, sport teams, poor people, etc )

A school just needs to put a empty barrel at the school door and ask the kids to place their empty bottles there, in order for them to buy new supplies, etc ( but that will imply the school staff needs to get their hands 'dirty' , and stop sending parents letters requiring extra funds to sustain the free education system ....)

how will they react if following a donation letter, the parents will deliver a huge pile of empty plastic bottles, double in value of asked donation ? take it? or leave it? or receive same amount of asked donation in Lidl deposit vouchers?