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Help with choosing an EV please!

  • 03-09-2021 11:20am
    Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭RoboRat

    Hi folks,

    I am starting a new job at the end of the month and I want to get a new car but I am confused about which to get!

    I currently drive an 08 Mazda 6 (2L diesel). I was happy enough with the Mazda as my current job is about 15km away from home whereas my new job is 56km and the commute will mainly be on country roads. I don't do a lot of mileage at the weekend, perhaps some occasional spins of up to 90km, but we have an X Trail so I could use that. I am not sure about whether they have an EV charging point at the new job but I will only be working in the office for 2-3 days, and at home for 2-3 days.

    I find the Mazda is quite smokey and burns a lot of oil, especially when starting in the morning. I'm not an eco-warrior but I want to get something cleaner and more environmentally friendly. We built our house in 2019 and I have a point in the garage specifically for an EV charger, so it should be quite simple to install.

    I would like to get something that's a decent size and I'm looking at the Skoda Enyaq, ID.4, Ioniq 5, Peugeot 2008, and the Niro - cars around that size that actually look nice and that won't break the bank... €40 - €45k range but I would consider a 2nd hand car around €20 - €25k. I would probably prefer a second-hand car but I'm just a bit wary of buying a used EV for some reason!

    I'm not tied to an EV and would consider a PHEV, I'm just not sold on them and I wonder would the extra weight of the battery and 2nd engine negate the savings if I am driving outside the EV range.

    Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

    56km commute in total or 112km return?

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 62,739 CMod ✭✭✭✭unkel

    It's good that you have your garage pre-wired. Should be easy enough to get a basic charge point installed for €600 all-in, which you will get back in subsidy. So basically a free charge point. If you have or will get substantial PV (solar panels), then you should consider a smart charge point like a Zappi

    As slave1 said, be more specific about your requirements and we can advise you on what to buy. There is no problem at all buying a used EV. In your budget many will still have full manufacturer's bumper to bumper warranty and most will still have battery / drivetrain warranty

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭RoboRat

    Apologies, it's 56km each way, so 112km in total

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    I would say for your situation, one of the BEVs you mentioned would cover your needs. Having a home charger is really key to getting the most of one, it really makes life easier and maximise the fuel savings

    Kona, Leaf 40kWh and ID.3 58kWh would also cover your needs IMO

    If you get a PHEV you'll definitely need the petrol engine for part of the journey which takes a big chunk out of the savings. You'll also need to plug in every day, which isn't the worst thing but it is nice to know that if you forget one day you'll still have plenty of charge with something like an ID.4

    While you say you'll use the X-Trail for the long trips, just bear in mind that many new EV owners will quickly start using it as the primary car because it's easier/nicer/cheaper to drive. So if you're between 2 battery choices, it can be better to go with the bigger one as it gives you more options for driving electric

    To give you an idea of what the ID.4 77kWh can do, I recently went from North Dublin to Waterford and back in mine. Motorways all the way at 110km/h, AC on, car loaded with family and holiday gear. Weather was warm generally so no heating needed, just AC

    I plugged into an ESB AC charger in Waterford for about an hour and took the long way home via the M11.

    I'm pretty sure if I'd taken the M9 I wouldn't have needed that charge in Waterford, and even if I did need to charge a 10-15 mins stop at one of several fast chargers en route would probably have done the job

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭RoboRat

    I'm looking at installing solar PV next year, we have a south-west facing house and get loads of unobstructed sun. I am also considering a wind turbine as we get a serious amount of wind. Ideally, I want to be almost, or completely self-sufficient within the next 5 years.

    The commute is 112km round trip - up to 3 times a week. For an EV, I'm looking for something that can cater for up to 200km (at least) on a full charge... most of the time I won't use it but I would like it for those times that I may need to travel to Dublin for instance.

    For a PHEV, I would consider something that offers a good mpg with a bit of poke, I'm not a road hog but I drive fast(ish). If there are PHEV's that have a decent range in electric mode, I would consider them, or if they offer very good mpg using both engines, it would pique my interest.

    I would like a decent size as I have 2 kids and I want something comfortable to drive, I'm not interested in anything like a Zoe. It doesn't need to be enormous as I have the X Trail when needed.

    I think I would prefer a second hand as I find it hard to stomach spending 40k on a car but when I calculated the costs of running an EV versus my current 08 Mazda over 10 years, it almost works out cheaper to buy a new EV.

    Hope this helps and thanks for taking the time to come back to me.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover

    IMHO, and obviously I'm going to be biased because my opinion is based on personal decisions I've already made....

    the best 2nd had EV on the market is the ioniq 28, which you will pick up for between 16 and 20k

    the best new EV on the market, if you care about spec's and features is the Kia Soul. However the soul is no go if you regularly need a large book, eg if yo carry a buggy or golf clubs often. However its great if you need to carry large bulky items without back seat passangers. Also the reaction to the shape of the soul can be very extreme. It loks like a storm trooper mated with postman pats van.

    The Niro is a great car, with more conventional shape - but not as well spec'ed

    The Kona (same batt and motor as Soul and Niro) is a great car, bit quite a bit smaller.

    Stepping up to the ID's and the Skoda is more money, but lower spec in the base models. However really really nice cars. Personally, I would consider a high spec ID3 if a "big" car is not a pre-requisite.

    However ultimately if I was willing to spend €45k on a car I'd be buying an Ioniq 5 or Kia EV 6. More specifically I'd be dialing every dealer in the country and seeing what kind of deal I could get 6 months from now on a demo.

    If you are going down the PHEV route I would consider a BMW 330e or 530e.

    FYI: I used to drive an ioniq 28, I currently drive a Soul and my wife drives a 530e

    PS: Ideally what you really want to do is get visiting dealerships and go and test drive some cars. Ultimately car preferences tend to be a very unique and individual thing and are hard to jodge.

    Having said that I actually bought my soul without ever having seen one in the flesh. However they share so many components with Hyundai that I was not too worried.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭RoboRat

    Thanks for the info... I don't think I could drive a Soul if I'm spending a lot of money - I want to like the car, and I really just don't like the look of them. The same applies to a Prius or the old Ioniq's. I really don't understand why they went full Back to the Future II with the styling.

    I like the BMW 320e, but I feel it would defeat the purpose. If I was buying it, it would be for the 252bhp and not because of the fuel savings or the lower emissions, so I could pick up something as fast, but for a lot less.

    I have done a bit more research and I'm leaning towards the ID.4 or the Peugeot 2008 - personally, I dislike Peugeot's as anyone I know who has one, has a lot of problems with them but perhaps the EV versions are better - It's a nice looking car though. The Skoda Enyaq is a beautiful car, but it's quite expensive and I find it hard to justify spending a load of cash on a car.

    The MG ZS looks like excellent value, but again, I'm not sure about how good they actually are! I love the look of the Kia EV6 but it's out of my price range. From looking at used cars, the eGolf is probably the one that ticks the most boxes, but Golfs are just so meh. The Ioniq 5 is a nice car but is it better than the ID.4? personally, I prefer the styling of the ID.4.

    I know I am coming across as a fussy git, but I have never had a really nice car, and I want a nice car! I can justify buying it if it saves me a lot on fuel, tax, and maintenance and it's good for the environment.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

    Solar PV is very viable 6 months of the year, wind is much more expensive. There an extensive ID4 thread you should read up on

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    A new car is the second most expensive thing you're ever likely to buy in your life after a house. You're allowed to be fussy about the purchase 😁

    ID.4 and Enyaq are the same car underneath, built on the MEB platform. Audi Q4 E-Tron is the same as well. What's good about the ID.4 should be the same for those as well

    Ioniq 5 seems better on paper, but the tricks aren't always useful. For example it charges very fast on 800V chargers, but there's only a handful of those in the country (look up Ionity locations) so it's only really useful if you travel one of those routes a lot

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,223 ✭✭✭Kramer

    You've mentioned everything from a small hatch (eGolf) to relatively large SUV (ID.4). You're coming from a saloon & aren't sure if you want a PHEV or BEV. That makes it hard to narrow down a good recommendation.

    €45k budget - a new Tesla Model 3 SR+? Plenty of range, best performance & stunning good looks 😀.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭celtic_oz

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭MightyMunster

    I'd also highly recommend a Model 3, cheaper than the Ioniq 5 or Kia 6. Can get anywhere in the country with 1stop.

    Tesla supercharging is the most user friendly and reliable of the charging networks. Good bit of expansion this year so covers most of the country (except for the North West)

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    We've seen that one before, the mileage is very high, close to the battery warranty limit. Not necessarily a problem but it'll affect resale value

    It also looks like an NI import so you need to be careful not to be stung for VAT

  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭regedit

    In a similar predicament as the other poster.

    Will be traiding a 2018 Superb Sportline (4x4, 280 hp, one of the few in the country with that level of spec and performance) for a full electric. Clearly, because I'll trade in a Skoda, my first incline is go to a Skoda dealer as you'll get best deal. Outside shape must be acquired as I don't like it particularly but I couldn't fault the interior.

    I haven't ever sat in a Tesla 3 let alone test-drove one. It appears a small enough interior but that could be me.

    I like the looks of the upcoming Kia EV6 and the Ioniq 5 (a comparison review of both). I know the Tesla 3 series is a saloon and all others SUV but that doesn't matter really. I would be travelling from Naas to Dublin 2-3 times a week (so roughly100 km a day) and the odd, longer journey...

    The Ioniq seems to be getting raving reviews in terms of the technology but as someone already pointed out, some probably not of huge benefit...

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭MightyMunster

    I think most interiors will be small coming from a Superb 😁

    Model 3 is a great car for under 50k with all the "extras" as standard, think the Hyundai and Kia are around the 50k mark. Size wise it's similar to a 3 Series, bit more leg space, flat floor in back boot a bit bigger (plus a frunk) head space a bit less

    If you want fancy extras like rear view camera, and leather seats in an ID4 it looks like you're over 50k

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy

    OP - Test drive a Model 3 SR+ It will outperform pretty much all other BEV’s except faster Tesla & Porsche BEV’s

    then come back here in a few days for a referral code to get 1,500km of free Supercharger charging when you order one.

  • test drive a Citroen e-C4/Peugeot 2008 or wait for a Megane early next year.

    Use Bjorn Nyland's google spreadsheets to see which have best range and use his comprehensive reviews to get an overall sense for the cars.

  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭regedit

    Thanks. I may be prejudiced but I will steer clear from french cars. Don't suffer from badge phobia. Just I've heard so many bad things about French cars (ICE)

  • I was replying to the OP and I've been driving French brand cars for the last 10 years without issue.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭garo

    From what you are saying your choice is really between these:


    Tesla Model 3 (SR+)

    ID.3 (Probably too much like a Golf for your taste)

    Ioniq 5 (but you prefer the ID.4 over it)

    If I were you I would test drive the first two and then decide. Range should not be a problem for you as even the smallest batteries in either of these two will get you 300km+ in winter.

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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy

    garo nailed it there..

    Test drive an ID.4 & a Model 3 SR+, then decide which one you want.

    The SR+ is one of the most efficient BEV's out there.. 448km (WLTP) out of a 50kW battery!! Mine's the older 409km WLTP range version, but I'm easily getting above that with about 95% of my regular driving, plugging it in every 3-4 days...

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    I often feel the same way but they seem to be doing well with the electrics these days

    I guess with ~90% fewer componenets to go wrong they're struggling to do their typical bad job

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    +1 on this

    If you need extra space, then you're probably looking at something like the ID.4

    If you have the need for speed, and can justify spending the money, then you won't go wrong with the Model 3

    Either way, they're both good cars, I doubt you'll be unhappy with either of them

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

    As a plus, the ID4 is apparently one of very few EV with VIN protocols onboard to allow open communication with Tesla Superchargers, this would be great when Tesla open the SuC network

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    It has the hardware onboard for Plug&Charge, but it hasn't been enabled via software yet. They've added the We Charge app to the car which is the first step of the process

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy

    They should probably try and figure out allowing owners to schedule a charge before worrying about plug and charge...

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    Oh you can schedule a charge, it's just unreliable as hell 🙄

    I've got around it by using the scheduling feature in the Zappi

  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Vinnymcdonnell

    I see a lot on here banging the Model 3............. I had one, it was fun at traffic lights and Autopilot was good. But the Electric Kona would eat it for range. I had the M3 Performance so biggest battery available, but would be lucky to get even 350kms on a charge and that would be driving properly and not hoofing it all the time. The Kona we have would get 450-480kms to a charge. Ok the Kona's interior may not be the most premium interior, but it is by no means a let down. If you want good range and easy car to live with, Hard to beat the Kona (eSoul or eNiro which are also all the same car!)

    Would like to potentially change the Kona for the new Ioniq 5

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy

    I have an SR+, and would easily hit 400+km's doing my daily driving (during summer), and that would include a mix of rural/urban/motorway driving!!!

    When the schools were off I would do a 50km run twice a day from Rush down to Artane and back, at least half of it being motorway at 120km/h, and my average consumption was anywhere from 105Wh/km to 130Wh/km, so that's a range of between 476km - 384km

    On motorways at a constant 120km/h, I'll get 240km winter, and about 300km summer range.

    Back in February I drove to Cork & back in driving snow/rain, temp was 1 degree all day - fcuking miserable day, and I was at speed limits all the way and my average consumption for the whole trip was 196Wh/km, giving me a theoretical range of 255km from the 50kWh battery in my SR+

    I know the LR & P have the bigger/heavier battery, so consumption will be higher ,and the P has bigger wheels, but to struggle to even get 350km's from a P, I think there must have been something wrong with the car... either that of you have a very heavy foot!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus

    Avoid phev. Your use case suits elec and you have the budget. You have the xtrail if needed. A 2008 is very small compared to id4 or enyaq. Not comparable. Read lots if user reviews. You tube is great. One enyaq owner regretted the fast charge option as it only really kicks in if the battery is very low. Seat trays not used by kids but usbc chargers are. Elec tailgate a must for this car as it's a heavy beast.

    Reality is that as good second hand ev will do you nicely. Minimal spend and some savings. Car buying reality is the funnel of joy speccing up a 45k beast and justifying it prepared for a wait if new.