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New Housing for All Plan launched

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭ JohnnyChimpo


    "overpopulated in terms of housing" is a phrase that will probably pop back into my head when I'm on my deathbed, truly bizarre





  • Aye. Sure same thing with the Help to Buy. Only applied to new houses so they had a little premium added.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    It's really, truly strange all right.


    I suppose you could construe it as "underpopulated in terms of people", that's certainly what the governing bodies think...during a housing crisis...and have thought, and planned, and facilitated, for years. I'm sure any decade now their money generating strategy will pay off. Sorry, I meant housing solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭ SummerK


    Here's an article saying new housing plan would not work https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/government-s-plan-won-t-fix-our-housing-problem-1.4663495

    It will be interesting to see if the supply would increase but looking at the way things are going I am not confident if prices would come down nor availability will be increasing significantly in the coming year or two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    At the very, very least, there's a growing recognition that this proposed shyteshow won't work.


    But bloody hell are people adept at skirting the obvious, at talking around the gathered elephants in the room. That wont last.


    This quote below is an example prime,

    "And this is the trap that housing has become for governments across the world."


    Once again, there is an attribution of "magic" to the problem, that the poor innocent governments have no say, are powerless, are merely genuine but ultimately useless in the face of this mysterious monster that none can defeat.


    Bollix. They are in control. Full stop. They have created and actively, blatantly, encouraged the creation of this supposed crisis over years. An environment has been artificially created by profiteers to extract money out of stone. Forget the piffling bullshit about rent controls and the like, look far, far beyond their housing division to see what's going on.


    What's their left hand doing while you're looking at their right hand? Where is the money flowing?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    None of what you are spouting is corruption. You really need to look up the definition. You might as well be arguing the policy of allowing people tax-free contributions to pensions is an example of corruption as a form of "guaranteed capital appreciation".



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    If some arsehole tells you specifically they will do a thing, but underhandedly do the opposite, that's corruption to me. Lies. Bullshyt.


    They say they're solving the housing crisis, while simultaneously creating it.

    "It's like pension contributions" no, it's fooking well not.


    And I'd rather be "spouting" than trying to defend arseholes for no reason. Every day of the week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,387 ✭✭✭✭ mariaalice


    I am not a cynic honestly,

    2027 public account commit questioning the land development agency.

    So Mr/Mrs jobs for the boys ( has finance, project management, or construction experience and had been on few state boards )

    Why hasn't is the site for the 500 house in x got planning permission yet? this has been going on for 6 years

    Mr/Mrs jobs for boys, we are still dealing with the 1,760 objections to the development and are currently before the supreme court on a point of planning law. The owner of an adjoining site which is the subject of a compulsory purchase order for access to the development is taking the board to the supreme court as well, current legal costs to the board are 10 Million.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,680 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    The number isnt vanishingly small.

    far from it.

    There exists many many more homeowners in this country with a vote than homeless people with a vote.

    Thats not to say people will vote a certain way or not, but of the homeowners in this country all have seen a rise in the value of their home and they wont all have an issue with how it got there (unfortunately).


    There are a lot of people very happy with how things are going in this property market because it serves their need.


    The ultimate question is how these people will vote and thats an unknown entity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    I was discerning between those who are actually making very large amounts of money out of the scam and Jane Everywoman.


    The average person living in a house that's quadrupled in value may feel nice about it, but it is zero utility/value to them. The home is the home, it hasn't changed.


    What the average homeowner will certainly notice, increasingly, over time, are the compounding detrimental side effects of their homes paper valuation, be it the children never leaving, no grandchildren, taxes, whatever. There are myriad variations that can work out advantageously, but on average I imagine the scenario isn't nearly so sweet when an ounce of scrutiny is applied.


    So, how those factors build over time versus an actual genuine reaction come voting, we'll see.


    This scam has gone beyond voting though. Investigation and a rooting of weeds is necessary.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,387 ✭✭✭✭ mariaalice


    The housing issue is almost gifiting the next election to SF.

    Eoin Ó Broin has all of the answers.

    Anyone ever notices how he stumble and stutters over the word Builders!! when he is being interviewed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 74,355 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    They are going to spend €4 billion a year, not enough, that's equivalent to €800 per person in the state, needs to be multples of that to make any impact. For Covid they pulled €15billion plus out of their arsehole pocket with no problem. Additionally expanding existing towns with already poor infrastrure is idiotic, start new towns with fresh rail links to where people want to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,094 ✭✭✭ jill_valentine


    Well, they're really only spending 3 billion a year if a quarter of it's being pissed away on HAP



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭ enricoh


    We had the governor of the central bank yesterday saying to cool the jets and we need to cut our deficit as corporation tax could evaporate.

    No votes in listening to him, spend, spend spend! What could possibly go wrong!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭ RichardAnd


    It's only 50% supply; the other half is demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭ SusanC10


    I am glad that my elderly mother made the decision to sell the investment residential property which she inherited from my Dad. It took a long time to get rid of difficult tenants but once they were gone, she sold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    so where is the money flowing & what should ordinary joe-soaps be doing?



  • Posts: 0 Apollo Large Tear


    Now would be a great time for apprenticeships. A great opportunity for young people to learn a trade or indeed for anyone to upskill.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    Where the money is flowing is a job for journalists and investigators, but you can make damn good guesses, I'm sure.

    As for what people should do, the answer is simple; just talk about it. Talk about it in real life when the opportunity arises, spread this government generated information. Challenge politicians if you see one sometime in the next decade. Talk.


    And here's what to point out, below...


    As said above, in 2020 there were approximately 20,000 housing units built.


    Also in 2020 there was a NET addition of 29k extra people through migration. 6k of those were from the combined eu27, Canada, USA, UK and Australia. The other 23k were from "rest of world". During a pandemic, mind.

    Here are the complicated mathematics of that...20k housing + 29k people = fixing the housing crisis...according to government maths, that is.


    The governments "new housing plan" proposes 300k new builds by 2030.


    The government's migration targets/projections (same thing) are that by 2030 they will accommodate a net gain of approximately 360k


    So, 300k housing units + 360k net migrants = a piss take in terms of solving the housing crisis.


    And what are the odds that both 1) they will not reach the housing goal and 2) the migration numbers will be higher?


    We're being treated like fools because we don't respond, like fools. Time is well nigh to change that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭ RichardAnd


    Perhaps the galling thing about this is that the state has not exactly been guarded in its plans. The Ireland 2040 plan announced a few years ago spelled out the intention clearly that an increase of one million persons was the goal by 2040. Of course, during the last election campaign, immigration was not only ignored, it was a proscribed topic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    "The housing crisis is the plan"

    So the government parties are doing this deliberately, so they can be at risk of losing their seats at the next GE? I don't buy it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    What do you propose to counter Ireland's population growth?

    A China-style one-child policy? Close our borders to all EU and non-EU migrants, which means an Irexit?

    Like, I understand people may not be 100% happy with the plan. I for one don't like the shared equity part of it all and wish they dropped it. But there seems to be a lot of conspiracy-like theories being peddled about the Irish housing issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭ Marius34


    "Also in 2020 there was a NET addition of 29k extra people through migration. 6k of those were from the combined eu27, Canada, USA, UK and Australia. The other 23k were from "rest of world". During a pandemic, mind."

    29K, was before Covid, during Covid it's 11.2K:

    "The number of immigrants to the State in the year to April 2021 is estimated to be 65,200, while the number of emigrants from the State over the same period is estimated at 54,000.  These combined flows gave positive net migration, (more people arrived than left), of 11,200 in the year to April 2021"

    Post edited by Marius34 on


  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I still haven't seen any official links to these figures you claim.y

    Sorry, but the 'it's all the immigrants fault' doesn't just cut it, no matter how often you say it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    Good honest politicians and their friends, only ever thinking of getting elected and nothing else.


    How do you explain the continuation of the housing crisis then? How do you square building housing, the majority of which will be cancelled out by immigration, as a means to end the housing crisis?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    Those are the numbers to April 2021, the numbers I used are to April 2020. It's just how they are reported, split the difference whatever way you like.


    300k versus 360k is the overarching point regardless of months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭ lossless


    Are you incapable of research yourself? Others above are able to look at the figures and pick through them, why not you?


    In no shape or form have my complaints targeted immigrants. My ire is entirely directed towards the duplicity of the government.


    Perhaps if your conscience wasn't so sensitised you'd be able to read clearly, form thoughts clearly, and come to conclusions clearly rather than seeking an opportunity to end conversation. It's a holy cow for some, I understand that, but it's not good enough to play the ignoramus.



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  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    you make.claims it's up to you to prove them.

    but as shown above, you were not being truthful and as I thought, those figures are not from last year, they are from 9 months of 2019, which was a very different time.



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