Almost new pre-reg car - more expensive than new?

mortis43

I'm looking at a 211 pre-reg car at the moment from a main dealer. Compared to the brand new version of the exact same model (same engine, spec, colour), the pre-reg is a few hundred euro more expensive. It only has 20 kilometres on the clock.

Is this standard practice or am I being taken for a mug? Perhaps there are some nuances in the spec I could be missing etc? I know I need to ask the dealer but from prior experience I'm not inclined to believe a word that comes out of their mouths.

L1011

How long is the waiting time for delivery of the actual new one? If its months, you're paying to get the car now.

There's a shortage of cars, basically, so this isn't entirely unlikely to happen.

mortis43

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803501#Comment_117803501

makes sense. I figured I was missing something. thanks!

JoeA3

Are you absolutely sure it’s like for like? Prices on the websites are also often not completely accurate, not reflecting recent price changes or spec changes and usually they also omit the “delivery charge” which can be up to €1K.

that said, there is a shortage of cars and ridiculous lead times so I would expect discounts on nearly new stuff to be very small.

Lantus

If you were to bang cash on the counter most dealers would suggest 6 months or so with no guarantees on delivery timetable. It's a long wait.... I'm surprised they are not adding a few k to the ones they have.

mortis43

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804104#Comment_117804104

That’s insane. Is that brexit, Covid, or both?

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804144#Comment_117804144

Global shortage of semi conductors

JoeA3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804144#Comment_117804144

both.

semi conductors shortages is the major problem for new car production. This shortage was brought about by Covid among other things

Brexit has killed UK imports stone dead.

bazz26

Unfortunately it's a typical case of supply and demand dictating prices. You might get the newer car cheaper but you could be waiting until next year for it is less whereas the pre reg is there right now if your not overly concerned about the spec. With typical waiting times and availability of brand new models thin on the ground dealers know that there won't be a shortage of suiters for it even if it costs more than a new one. It's a seller's market out there at the moment.

mortis43

Thanks everyone - very helpful

R.O.R

The dealer may not actually want to sell the car at the moment!

Lead times on some new vehicles are so long, that if a pre-reg sells, they won't be able to replace it with anything. This leaves the dealer short on that model car in case someone does want to test drive one and place an order for whenever delivery is, and in a lot of cases means someone doesn't have a demo to drive home in.

Delivery, metallic, any options and in quite a few cases, paint protection etc. will be included in the price of a pre-reg

mortis43

Thanks all.

is there anything in particular I should look out for when test driving and viewing such a car?

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205784/almost-new-pre-reg-car-more-expensive-than-new

Dealer charges probably not added to the "new car" like delivery charges,paint type,cleaning/preparation,registering with Revenue,plates, etc

If,you are talking about the pre reg 20km - has been around the forecourt or over to the local Texaco for a fill or one trip home with the salesperson.It's a new car just with one previous owner

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117810791#Comment_117810791

Why would sell a pre-reg then, surely they would keep it on as a demo?

Is it that difficult to order new cars - we have been hearing about semi-conductors for almost a year, you'd imagine all the semi conductor factories are back to 100% plus volume now and they would be taking orders now for next year delivery?

bazz26

Try ordering a car from the factory from the likes of one of the VAG brands and see how you get on. You will be waiting months for anything that the dealers haven't been allocated already. Factories are not back to 100% either, Covid and social distancing in the work place have not gone away. They are still playing catch-up and there is also other industries impacted by the semi conductor shortage such as the computer industry or basically anything that uses a chip or circuit board.

mortis43

Certainly seems like the dealership don't want to sell it. I'm offering cash and ready to pay and take the car away right away but every excuse under the sun is coming up and I'm being pushed towards the 212 version instead. so frustrating. I'll be walking away from this one.

wotzgoingon

That's very weird. You honestly told them you had cash ready to pay and they refused. Mad.

bazz26

What car is it?

Irish Steve

It's across the board at the moment, a family member works with one of the major car hire companies, and they've had huge problems getting enough cars to meet the demand this summer, and they are down on previous years as a result of Covid, and they've been told that the situation for next year is equally bad, due to manufacturing constraints, primarly the chip shortage, but there are other issues, Covid, distribution, parts supplies and Brexit have all had their influences and it seems that resolving some of the ongoing issues is going to take quite some time.

mortis43

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830008#Comment_117830008

not so much refusing, just dragging out the (potential) sale - it's not ready yet, it's out on loan, it's being test driven, meanwhile please take our PCP and the newer model instead etc.

bazz26

So someone else has an extended test drive of it or it's being used as a courtesy car? If someone has it on extended test then they maybe hoping they buy it and they might have a trade-in that the dealer wants versus your straight deal. In normal times your deal would have trumped the other person but dealers are very short of used stock now and they might actually make more money by taking a trade in from another interested buyer. They may also be on an extra bonus or incentive scheme from the distributor to shift x number of new cars already in country by a certain period.

R.O.R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825094#Comment_117825094

It probably is a Demo, and no one has updated the mileage on it for a while.

Things are just getting worse as far as lead time and ordering is concerned. The semi conductor issue is by no means resolved and it's beginning to look like it's going to drag on until mid next year at least.

Almost all stock in the country is sold at this point. Model year changes and factory holidays are delaying things quite a bit at the moment. One of the manufacturer's that we get a regular stock list from has hundreds of vehicles that should have been built in the last 3 - 5 weeks, but haven't entered production yet - or are built and not in shipping yet.

Already ordering some stuff for March next year at this stage, and even then I doubt that as a delivery date from one manufacturer. Everything else, that isn't physically on the ground at the moment, is being ordered for January - probably, but might go out a bit further - we just don't know.

JoeA3

Yep, I’m experiencing this first hand. A car I’ve ordered was apparently build-complete in early August but it hasn’t boarded a ship yet and no sign of it doing so anytime soon. So it’s a month sitting on the ground somewhere around the factory. I’m now told it’s still waiting on semi conductor(s), weeks after it seemed apparent that it was completed

At this rate it will be a January reg…

this parts shortage problem is not getting any better as far as I can see.

wildwillow

I'm also waiting delivery of a new car but the wait period was 4 months of which there are two weeks left. I'm told it is awaiting shipping so should arrive on schedule.

GusGus

Are there any car/ makes not affected ?

cruizer101

I have heard some of the Japanese makes aren't as badly affected as they were hit by supply shortages after 2011 tsunami and after that made changes to their process/supply to try mitigate against future shortages. That said the chip shortage is very bad and has been going on a while now so they may well be affected at this stage.

JoeA3

All makes are affected. The Japanese / Asian manufacturers had stockpiled a lot of parts though, so I read, so they didn't hit the problem as early as the Europeans. But Toyota recently announced that they're cutting production by 40% so they're obviously feeling the effects now.

Then how they deal with the situation varies from make to make. BMW are stripping out spec for example, to get the cars built quicker, whereas VAG seem to plough on and build the cars to spec but end up with enormous lead times due to shortages.

xtradel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841359#Comment_117841359

I just bought a Nissan Qashqai and from ordering to receiving took around 12 working days and I had a choice of colours but from reading this thread I must have been lucky to get it that fast.

Darc19

211 pre reg is simply a car registered at the end of June so that the dealer could hit their targets for a rebate.

An unregistered car will have "delivery charges" of a few hundred. These charges are added as vrt is applied to the retail landed price, thus saves vrt on the costs after the car lands at the dock.

Plenty of Nissan quasqai about as they are made in the UK, so easy enough for nissan Ireland to get additional stock as UK car sales are substantially down on 2019 levels.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833199#Comment_117833199

Very interesting - will probably all lead to a flood of cars mid next year. I think I will try to hold tight and buy mid next year, was planning on switching around next month and potentially importing a vat qualifying < 2 year old car from U.K. but prices if anything have increased since the new reg change there on Sept 1st

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825094#Comment_117825094

To put it simplistically, when the pandemic hit last year, most manufacturers cancelled or substantially reduced their forward orders for chips. In the meantime, demand for consumer electronics & IT equipment boomed as we worked from home and were locked down (think laptops, video conferencing equipment, games consoles, phones, smart devices like TVs, tablets etc). This demand quickly absorbed any excess capacity the chip makes had.

When the auto manufacturers got over their 'chicken little' moment and realised the sky wasnt going to fall in, they faced being at the back of the queue for the chip makers as the order books were full and they have been there ever since waiting for production capacity to increase. The European & American manufacturers were most pessimistic and hence worst affected. Tesla being the notable exception managed to keep full production (but they are not at the same scale in fairness).

Some of the Japanese manufacturers have fared well until recently, however even they are affected as Toyota is now reporting they are finally being hit hard with production shutdowns. The Koreans (Hyundai/Kia) were more savvy, but increased demand from buyers look for alternatives has in turned created delays.

New supply chains are being developed which should mitigate this risk in the future, however this will not affect the current shortages in the near term.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851320#Comment_117851320

It amazing car sales have not plummeted more isn't it? I read that U.S. sales fell 15% in 2020 but are only 8% down on 2019 - despite the fact that prices have risen dramatically. With so many people still working from home & not driving as much, growing adoption of cycling, reduced income for whole industries, I would have expected sales to be dramatically lower

I will buy again when I see value but some of the new prices asked are crazy - maybe other people aren't as price sensitive as I am but when I see massive unexplained increased I tend to be happy with what I have now.

e.g. a Superb Sportline 150bhp hatch in 2019 - rrp then was €36670, three year later its €43660- yes that's a €7000 increase. The VRT rate has remained almost unchanged in the three years (gone up from 17% to 17.25%). The new car also attracts 2.9% PCP rate versus 0% three years ago - adding another €2000 of finance costs making the same car €9000 more expensive to buy new today versus 3 years ago. I haven't shopped with dealers but my guess is less of a discount is available now too. What reason other than 'profit taking' have Skoda for increasing the price of a family car like that so much?

Stallingrad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852875#Comment_117852875

With regard to Skoda and other, materiel costs are playing a significant part in all this too. Steel, plastics, rubber, glass, everything is costing more due to supply and demand issues. Look at what is happening in the building trade due to material costs, 30%+ up year on year.

Not saying it is the only factor, but certainly a big one.

Stallingrad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804229#Comment_117804229

How things have changed. In 2012 I bought a pre reg petrol Passat with zero miles that had been sitting with the dealer for a year. Got nearly €10k off list price.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883991#Comment_117883991

Give it another 12-18 months and we'll be there again. The world is awash with funny money.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883983#Comment_117883983

I worked for a car part manufacturer- electrical and pumps, valves etc and no price increases of any significant level were seen in the last two years - i.e. inflation level of 2% was typical but nothing too serious. Wages have not jumped by 30%, nor have the capital cost of the factories etc. Just because we have a temporary shortage of MDF doesn't mean car parts have increased by 30%.

I'm opting out for now and I'm fairly certain in a year from now when supply is flooded we will see value back in the market.

Stallingrad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906221#Comment_117906221

Hot rolled steel, the stuff used to build cars is trading at $1800 per tonne, pre pandemic it was around $500. An average car uses just under a tonne of steel. There's no question that material costs are impacting on car prices, the real question is will car manufacturers pass on the material reductions when they come, which they surely will in a year or two.

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906648#Comment_117906648

Supply and demand dictates prices, once that tide turns as soon as night follows day the massive profit taking by car manufacturers, distributors and dealers won't last

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906648#Comment_117906648

Price rises can be hidden.

Rebates to dealers are reduced and if dealers don't have the stock to sell, then the rebates drop further as they are usually based on growth figures.

This in turn means less discount to the consumer as the dealer is not chasing the rebate for end of period sales.

Also, notice how few consumer offers are out there by the manufacturers? Another hidden increase.

So in 2019 you may have had an upgrade package "worth" €4,000 for €995, or things like a free tow bar and o% finance on top of a local dealer discount of 5%-8% if you were buying without a trade-in, all that is gone. But rrp may not have changed. in reality its a 10%+ price increase.

Manufacturers are taking some of the hit too in the hope commodity prices will drop. And prices will drop as the market will start over producing and consumers will hold back purchasing (as the poster here is doing). That will lead to a glut in commodities and prices will plummet. A recent example is lumber prices (wood) - prices spiked to $1500 early summer and are now back at $600 and probably soon heading to the multi year average of $450 https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/commodities/lbs

In fact a lot of commodities have come back substantially from the early summer highs that made headlines. Unfortunately the media don't see any value in telling people that those high prices have subsided dramatically.

So if you current car is doing the job for you, let it run for another year

wassie

The No.1 issue is not so much the cost of inputs, but rather the availabity of them. Disruptions to supply chains has lead to productions cuts in turn leading to less new cars available for sale and longer waiting times for customers.

By far and away the semi-conductor shortage is the main culprit. FT reported last week "a cascade of factory closures across Europe, North America and Asia, the shortages are likely to continue well into next year." Typically these are short closures of no more than a few days, but the time to shut down and restart is a significant drain on resources and scheduling.

Covid is also still playing havoc in certain South East Asian regions also. Thailand, the major manufacturer of utilities (think Hilux, Ranger, D-Max, Navara etc) is being hit hard by the Covid Delta wave.